April 15th wknd of Sleuthing

[BrownRice]

Good morning all. Glad to read you locals are all safe. Sounds pretty scary out there. When we first moved to NC, I was always confused with the tornado watches and warnings (couldn't remember which was more serious). But they both scared the heck out of me (being from CA I had never been in one). So I can imagine how scary last night must have been for you!

This post is directed mostly to the people still on the fence (and if you're not on the fence, please don't respond with sarcasm). Why is the Google Map not your smoking gun? What is the theory YOU think the defense is going to use with their Google witness? Could the date have been off (he searched after the body was found)? Could he have NOT zoomed in to Fielding Dr - let's say he was searching for a new shoe store and it was 3 miles from Fielding Dr, but when zoomed out Fielding Dr (and 1000 other streets) was on the map?

The map testimony just added confusion for me. I was strongly on the fence before because I just couldn't (and don't) see this crime being planned. He was too smart - especially to leave a google map on the computer. Even I know that. But if the defense cannot come up with a sensible, logical theory about the map (that doesn't make you roll your eyes), I'm off the fence.

Thoughts?

 

[TallCoolOne]

I'm listening to part 1 of det daniels testimony and I noticed that Brad told them the first time about a running bra Nancy was wearing. He described it as black and gray and then he stopped and didn't say anything more.

That makes two times that Brad focuses attention on nancy's running bra. Once on the 12th when daniels is interviewing him and then again on the 14th when Nancy's body is found (at that time he mentions Nancy always wearing a black and red and gray running bra).

That really hit me. Twice. He mentions the running bra and nothing else twice.

< thud >

Well then he was pretty dern accurate considering that's all she was found in............. see, even the most profound and practiced liar will let a shred of truth out now and then......

I just want to take a smidgen of O/T space and give a big shout out to all of you who post daily trial updates. Work is currently 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, I work the 3rd shift so I try my best to wade through each daily thread and glean what's happened that day. If it weren't for all of you dedicated posters, I don't know where I would get such good info.

I see the defense has implanted a couple of posters to attempt to sway some opinions here, as is apparent by the Johnny-come-lately 'hats' that I see. I suppose that's a good way for them to keep a pulse on how they're doing........ not that it's going to help sway the opinions of the 12 people that really matter, but it seems that with every trial that has garnered some publicity it always happens. To each his own I reckon.

Keep up the fantastic work that you all do. I love this place, but more-so, the posters that offer such lively discussion. You all are great. I wish I had time to post as well, but I have enough trouble just trying to keep up. If I didn't have to sleep I'd be okay, but I've tried that a few times and it sure makes for a very looooong night. Hopefully all this OT at work will settle down soon, there's a couple of other cases more local to me, and one not so local coming up that I really want to keep up on.

Justice for Nancy!

 

[SleuthinNC]

Good morning all. Glad to read you locals are all safe. Sounds pretty scary out there. When we first moved to NC, I was always confused with the tornado watches and warnings (couldn't remember which was more serious). But they both scared the heck out of me (being from CA I had never been in one). So I can imagine how scary last night must have been for you!

This post is directed mostly to the people still on the fence (and if you're not on the fence, please don't respond with sarcasm). Why is the Google Map not your smoking gun? What is the theory YOU think the defense is going to use with their Google witness? Could the date have been off (he searched after the body was found)? Could he have NOT zoomed in to Fielding Dr - let's say he was searching for a new shoe store and it was 3 miles from Fielding Dr, but when zoomed out Fielding Dr (and 1000 other streets) was on the map?

The map testimony just added confusion for me. I was strongly on the fence before because I just couldn't (and don't) see this crime being planned. He was too smart - especially to leave a google map on the computer. Even I know that. But if the defense cannot come up with a sensible, logical theory about the map (that doesn't make you roll your eyes), I'm off the fence.

Thoughts?

For me there are a number of things strange about the google search. The length of time, the explanation of why searching 27815 brought up Fielding Dr., the lack of cookie for this search with other cookies being present, the lack of a cookie but presence of history and TIF, the incredibly obvious search being the one thing left in an otherwise completely clean crime.

Kurtz said in his opening argument Jay Ward was going to show evidence of tampering I want to hear from Jay Ward. As much as people have said the defense opening statements have been lies, so far Kurtz has shown everything he said he would, now I am waiting to see the rest.

 

[grommet]

This post is directed mostly to the people still on the fence (and if you're not on the fence, please don't respond with sarcasm). Why is the Google Map not your smoking gun? What is the theory YOU think the defense is going to use with their Google witness? Could the date have been off (he searched after the body was found)? Could he have NOT zoomed in to Fielding Dr - let's say he was searching for a new shoe store and it was 3 miles from Fielding Dr, but when zoomed out Fielding Dr (and 1000 other streets) was on the map?

The map testimony just added confusion for me. I was strongly on the fence before because I just couldn't (and don't) see this crime being planned. He was too smart - especially to leave a google map on the computer. Even I know that. But if the defense cannot come up with a sensible, logical theory about the map (that doesn't make you roll your eyes), I'm off the fence.

Thoughts?

I'll agree that the map testimony is compelling evidence. But I don't know all of what was presented because of the blackout. PLEASE - if anyone has a link to a detailed write up to the maps testimony I'd love to read more about it.

What will get me off of the fence? We've all used Google Maps for various reasons, I as a technical guy I know how it works on the back end and how it's wired together. I need to know the context of the zoomed in Fielding Dr. map tiles in relation to the entire browsing session. Did he linger for a significant amount of time or did he breeze through it? Were other potential "dump sites" also zoomed in on? What else did he focus on while he was scrolling around that map?

Evidently the FBI can reproduce the entire map browsing session based on timestamps on those map tiles (which go down to millionth of a second). The fact that the prosecution didn't present the entire sequence to the jury tells me that the evidence was potentially exculpatory - and assuming that is indeed the case...I hope Kurtz and company do exactly that when they offer their defense. Because I bet it paints a different picture than what we all are seeing right now.

EDIT: And another thing: I don't buy the tampering theory for one second. You'll never convince me that the same department that doesn't have enough sense to call in a technical expert to unlock NC's phone when it's obvious this stuff is over their head - that this very department someone has enough expertise to plant evidence without screwing it up. And that assumes the CPD is in the illegal business of planting evidence to begin with...which is a STRETCH. I find it more believable that BC was trying to cover his tracks by deleting selected cookies but didn't realize this info was cached.

 

[JiminWilton]

This post is directed mostly to the people still on the fence (and if you're not on the fence, please don't respond with sarcasm). Why is the Google Map not your smoking gun? What is the theory YOU think the defense is going to use with their Google witness? Could the date have been off (he searched after the body was found)? Could he have NOT zoomed in to Fielding Dr - let's say he was searching for a new shoe store and it was 3 miles from Fielding Dr, but when zoomed out Fielding Dr (and 1000 other streets) was on the map?

Thoughts?

We have heard that there were undeniable time stamp errors on the drive. I don't know what caused them, but they exist. That's not in dispute.

I believe the google witness will testify that the google server records indicate the search took place on the 14th, after the body was discovered. And I believe that the CPD decided to use Brad's laptop to see where the body was found in relation to the Cooper house.

I don't think they intentionally changed the date to incriminate him, but thought there was no harm in using his laptop for a quick search. Maybe how to get from the Cooper house to the body dump site? But since accessing the computer after seizure was a No-No, they clammed up. After all, Det. McDreamy did farkle the NC BB and did not admit his fark until 11 months later.

Somebody who is a timeline expert please find the date/time when CPD took custody of the computer. I think it's before the discovery.

And all of yesterday's nasties missed me completely here in Wilton, although my NOAA alarmed five times and warned me to 'TAKE COVER NOW" The said the twister was 6 miles northwest of Creedmoor moving NE and I'm 7 miles east, so I stayed out of the bathtub.

 

[cityslick]

Yes, but things are good. We spent 30 mins in our half bath downstairs. Unfortunately had to wake the 2 year old up from her nap and my 8 year old was extremely scared. Once it went past, we ventured out to see the damage. Looks like at least 2 different tornadoes hit my neightborhood (I live in a neighborhood off of Avent Ferry), but near the front of the neighborhood. Avent Ferry looks like a war zone. I wasn't nervous during the event, but realized later how close these things actually were to us.

We drove through downtown Holly Springs and it looks like there was some significant damage. Thankfully we got our power back around 9pm.

 

[cityslick]

Good morning all. Glad to read you locals are all safe. Sounds pretty scary out there. When we first moved to NC, I was always confused with the tornado watches and warnings (couldn't remember which was more serious). But they both scared the heck out of me (being from CA I had never been in one). So I can imagine how scary last night must have been for you!

This post is directed mostly to the people still on the fence (and if you're not on the fence, please don't respond with sarcasm). Why is the Google Map not your smoking gun? What is the theory YOU think the defense is going to use with their Google witness? Could the date have been off (he searched after the body was found)? Could he have NOT zoomed in to Fielding Dr - let's say he was searching for a new shoe store and it was 3 miles from Fielding Dr, but when zoomed out Fielding Dr (and 1000 other streets) was on the map?


The map testimony just added confusion for me. I was strongly on the fence before because I just couldn't (and don't) see this crime being planned. He was too smart - especially to leave a google map on the computer. Even I know that. But if the defense cannot come up with a sensible, logical theory about the map (that doesn't make you roll your eyes), I'm off the fence.

Thoughts?

I'm not on the fence anymore, but what if (hypothetically), the defense gets someone from Google up there and can make a claim that their servers can tell that a map search with this particular location did not happen on July 11th at 1:15pm? That would probably be the only thing that would make me think long and hard about how credible the smoking gun is.

 

[grommet]

We have heard that there were undeniable time stamp errors on the drive. I don't know what caused them, but they exist. That's not in dispute.

I believe the google witness will testify that the google server records indicate the search took place on the 14th, after the body was discovered. And I believe that the CPD decided to use Brad's laptop to see where the body was found in relation to the Cooper house.

I don't think they intentionally changed the date to incriminate him, but thought there was no harm in using his laptop for a quick search. Maybe how to get from the Cooper house to the body dump site? But since accessing the computer after seizure was a No-No, they clammed up. After all, Det. McDreamy did farkle the NC BB and did not admit his fark until 11 months later.

Somebody who is a timeline expert please find the date/time when CPD took custody of the computer. I think it's before the discovery.

But where the timestamps associated with the map tiles altered? Based on testimony yesterday I would think "no"...meaning the map session did indeed happen when they say it did - July 11th. Great theory though - it definitely got me thinking.

 

[Cheyenne130]

Since we got blacked out on the google map search can someone tell me if it was actually the map with streets or was it a satellite view? All along I have been picturing in my head the satellite view for some reason.

 

[Cheyenne130]

But where the timestamps associated with the map tiles altered? Based on testimony yesterday I would think "no"...meaning the map session did indeed happen when they say it did - July 11th. Great theory though - it definitely got me thinking.

I am guessing that just about every computer that does any visiting to other servers has time stamp errors on it. The error isn't just if the time is off on your own computer. It can be if the time is wrong or the wrong time zone is selected on a server that you connect to. I would guess that when I went to California I got a bunch of time stamp errors because my computer was set for eastern time zone.

 

[SleuthinNC]

But where the timestamps associated with the map tiles altered? Based on testimony yesterday I would think "no"...meaning the map session did indeed happen when they say it did - July 11th. Great theory though - it definitely got me thinking.

I don't think we know yet if those time stamps were altered.

 

[Palomine]

For me there are a number of things strange about the google search. The length of time, the explanation of why searching 27815 brought up Fielding Dr., the lack of cookie for this search with other cookies being present, the lack of a cookie but presence of history and TIF, the incredibly obvious search being the one thing left in an otherwise completely clean crime.

Kurtz said in his opening argument Jay Ward was going to show evidence of tampering I want to hear from Jay Ward. As much as people have said the defense opening statements have been lies, so far Kurtz has shown everything he said he would, now I am waiting to see the rest.

maybe on the work computers you couldn't erase the tmp files

 

[SleuthinNC]

maybe on the work computers you couldn't erase the tmp files

Nope not a factor.

 

[Tink56]

Since we got blacked out on the google map search can someone tell me if it was actually the map with streets or was it a satellite view? All along I have been picturing in my head the satellite view for some reason.

This is from the WRAL article about the search. It indicates that the satellite view was discussed.

Chris Chappell, a Durham police detective assigned to the FBI's Cyber Task Force, said that multiple aerial photos were accessed from Google Maps on Brad Cooper's laptop computer at 1:15 p.m. on July 11, 2008, while he was at work.
"It appears to be from the area of Fielding Drive," Chappell said. "It is my understanding (that’s) where Nancy Cooper's body was found."
Chappell said that Brad Cooper's computer files showed that someone searched for the ZIP code 27518 and determined, based on the latitude and longitude, that the center of that area was Fielding Drive.
Through a more in-depth examination, Chappell said, he found that the user zoomed in on the map for multiple views of the area.

http://www.wral.com/specialreports/nancycooper/story/9435025/

 

[Tink56]

I don't think we know yet if those time stamps were altered.

Another article from WRAL indicates that the files weren't "tampered with".

Chappell testified Wednesday that when he examined the computer in September 2008, he found multiple satellite photos from Google Maps on Brad Cooper's password-protected work laptop from July 11, 2008 – nearly 24 hours before Nancy Cooper was reported missing.
The user also zoomed in on the map for multiple views of the area.
"There were magnifications of two (areas), including the area where Nancy Cooper’s body was found," Chappell said Thursday.The search lasted 41 seconds, he said.
Defense attorneys also claim that 692 files on Brad Cooper's laptop were changed during a 27-hour period while the computer was in Cary police's possession when it should have been powered down.
Chappell said he examined every one of the files that the defense says were modified and that the changes were all operating system or security updates. There was also no evidence that the computer was hacked, he added.Prosecutors objected to a line of questioning by Kurtz about why someone knowledgeable about computers, like Brad Cooper, would leave a piece of evidence like the Google Maps search on a laptop and not leave any other evidence.
http://www.wral.com/specialreports/nancycooper/story/9440639/

 

[ncsu95]

Good morning all. Glad to read you locals are all safe. Sounds pretty scary out there. When we first moved to NC, I was always confused with the tornado watches and warnings (couldn't remember which was more serious). But they both scared the heck out of me (being from CA I had never been in one). So I can imagine how scary last night must have been for you!

This post is directed mostly to the people still on the fence (and if you're not on the fence, please don't respond with sarcasm). Why is the Google Map not your smoking gun? What is the theory YOU think the defense is going to use with their Google witness? Could the date have been off (he searched after the body was found)? Could he have NOT zoomed in to Fielding Dr - let's say he was searching for a new shoe store and it was 3 miles from Fielding Dr, but when zoomed out Fielding Dr (and 1000 other streets) was on the map?

The map testimony just added confusion for me. I was strongly on the fence before because I just couldn't (and don't) see this crime being planned. He was too smart - especially to leave a google map on the computer. Even I know that. But if the defense cannot come up with a sensible, logical theory about the map (that doesn't make you roll your eyes), I'm off the fence.

Thoughts?

I'm barely on the fence. It feels like I'm wearing lead boots and hanging on with all my might about to fall on the 100% guilty side. I have obviously had issues with lots of the evidence (the call, the timing presented by the prosecution, his demeanor, the "work calls", etc. The google search is what poll vaulted me to my current position, but even that bothers me. It was 41 total seconds, so what did it accomplish? The only thing that makes sense to me is that he already knew of that location (maybe he ran or biked back there) but got pissed after she told him yet again that she "hated" him so he quickly scrolled over to remember the name/location of what he saw. And it was short because his co-workers asked him to go to lunch. But it seems like he would have went back there after lunch. And if it was planned before hand, there are too many things that were poorly executed. Why not have the garage cleaned well ahead of time? Why not clean the house while she is gone? I'm just confused by the pre-planning part.

But I'm barely remaining on the fence until I see what the defense has as an explanation for these searches.

 

[Cheyenne130]

This is from the WRAL article about the search. It indicates that the satellite view was discussed.

Chris Chappell, a Durham police detective assigned to the FBI's Cyber Task Force, said that multiple aerial photos were accessed from Google Maps on Brad Cooper's laptop computer at 1:15 p.m. on July 11, 2008, while he was at work.
"It appears to be from the area of Fielding Drive," Chappell said. "It is my understanding (that’s) where Nancy Cooper's body was found."
Chappell said that Brad Cooper's computer files showed that someone searched for the ZIP code 27518 and determined, based on the latitude and longitude, that the center of that area was Fielding Drive.
Through a more in-depth examination, Chappell said, he found that the user zoomed in on the map for multiple views of the area.http://www.wral.com/specialreports/nancycooper/story/9435025/

Thank you. That sounds more like Google Earth rather than google maps. The search wouldn't be something he would do if he were looking for a particular business close to his house.

 

[Just the Fax]

The fact that that particular google map cookie was deleted and not others, is even more compelling evidence.

 

[jmflu]

Here I am in Charleston, enjoying a B&B weekend, and look what jumped out at me...ducks and sticks!!

 

[Tink56]

The fact that that particular google map cookie was deleted and not others, is even more compelling evidence.

This deserves more than a thanks. IMO, this is the "smoking gun."