AR - Fully-Armed Sheriffs Remove 7 Homeschool Children from 'Prepper' Family

[MyBelle]

That's precisely it. They don't want their kids exposed to the outside world. That's how you control thought.



Are we talking about home/hospital instruction for sick kids? Because most districts around the country provide that if need be (although some hospitals provide it themselves as well).

But these kids aren't sick so that kind instruction wouldn't be offered to them.

Homeschooling is a choice, not a special need and the regulations about keeping kids in their own schools if possible is about not making them leave even their schools and classmates when removed form their homes. Clearly, when their school is at home, that regulation cannot apply.

Public school may indeed be scary to these kids who've been likely told how dangerous the outside world is. But it is hard not to upset kids removed from their homes. I remember a little girl who clutched onto my leg and begged for her mother at a local children's home I was visiting. She has been horribly abused and neglected. She still wanted her mom. It's hard to avoid pain for these kids.

BBM. It would be great if you can cite some case law to support your statement of fact. Thanks.

 

[MyBelle]

They do not need those tests for college admission. A college would require them to obtain their GED and take the ACT or SAT.

They do need to do the testing to maintain their home school status. You are posting an incredible amount of misinformation.

State law requires that home school students test each year. Currently students in grades 3-9 test.

http://www.arkansased.org/divisions/learning-services/home-schools

 

[MyBelle]

Coming to this story late. Is Michelle that man's 1st & only wife?

Full disclosure: I home-schooled for a few years and then transferred my children to a small private Southern Baptist academy. Pulled them all out when the headmaster called me in for a parent conference in which he spent 3 hours reaming me out for being a bad wife (huh?) and mother to my straight A student, no disciplinary referrals children, and for attending the "wrong" church.

I'm not sure of what point you're trying to make. What difference does it make if Michelle is Hal Stanley's first wife or not?

 

[MyBelle]

I'm thinking the real underlying objection is to them being around other children of different belief systems and lifestyles in public schools that might actually open up their children's eyes and make them think for themselves, and then they'd challenge their parents belief systems. If you keep them insulated from the world, they'll never know anything is wrong with it and that there are other ways to be.

Why do so many Catholic parents choose Catholic schools? Lutheran parents choosing Lutheran schools? Parents choosing charter schools or private schools? Private and parochial schools have been a parental choice for many, many years. I seriously doubt the majority make the choice because they don't want the kids exposed to religious "belief systems." I think parents are focused on quality of education.

Are parents keeping their children "insulated" from the world or are they keeping their children insulated from the violence, drugs, alcohol and crime that are permeating the public schools? I think the later so that the child can learn in a safe environment.

JMO

 

[IAMME]

They do need to do the testing to maintain their home school status. You are posting an incredible amount of misinformation.

State law requires that home school students test each year. Currently students in grades 3-9 test.

http://www.arkansased.org/divisions/learning-services/home-schools

No, I stated that in my opinion and in my experience that it is laughably easy to get an exemption. I understand the laws in my state. I'm just saying that a lot of parents that I know take huge advantage of those laws. I know several home school families, off the top of my head I can think of 5 seperate families, with a total of 14 children and EVERY.SINGLE.ONE has an exemption.
I have a child who has an incredibly high IQ and I researched all of the educational opportunities possible for him, including homeschooling him, also my step son was "homeschooled" so that his mother could avoid prosecution when he dropped out of high school.
I am not against homeschooling, I think that when done well and for the right reasons that it is definately a better option for many children than traditional classroom instruction, but I live here and frequently I see people who take advantage of the leniency of the system. It isn't hard to have a child diagnosed with a "learning disorder" and get an exemption here..
Also it is not misinformation that the standardized tests are not needed for college admissions. Arkansas act 1290.
ALL IMO

 

[IAMME]

http://www.arkansased.org/divisions/learning-services/foster-care-liaison

"remain in their schools of current enrollment whenever possible,
are moved to new schools in a timely manner when it is determined to be necessary, appropriate, and in their best interests, by the court.
"participate in appropriate educational programs and have access to the academic resources, services and extracurricular activities available to all pupils."

"WHENEVER POSSIBLE" Obviously it is not possible or appropriate for children to remain in their HOME school if they have been removed from their homes, nor is it possible for them to have access to the "academic resources, services and extracurricular activities available to all pupils."

The state cannot provide them with a religious based, home based education because of the seperation of church and state, and the children's best interests but it can provide them with the free education that every other child in the state is entitled to and that is all they are required to do.
I'm sure that this has not been an easy transition for the children, but I'm sure that being taken into foster care is never an easy transition.

 

[IAMME]

That school is not part of the Hot Springs school district. It is part of the University of Arkansas system.

Yes it is a satellite campus of U of A, but it is publicly funded, just like every other public high school in the state and when a child transfers to Asmsa their homeschool loses any per child funding for that child, I'm just saying that since the cost per student is higher than the state average in hot springs that Asmsa may explain why, BC it is still considered a public school even though it's board of trustees is at UofA... Students at Asmsa are concurrently enrolled at Asmsa, ualr, and hot spring community college. My son graduated ASMSA 2014. Also ASMSA students participate in extracurricular activities at hot springs high school.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Off label cure for what? The entire family looks pretty darn healthy in the photos. Hal Stanley said he used it to purify water in his garden. Golly, imagine that! He actually knows what it is and used it for the purpose of purifying water.

Apparently The Washington Post hasn't gotten the memo it is neither mineral or supplement because they called it a mineral supplement. I'm pretty sure salt is a mineral and so is chlorite.

Seven children may have been taken from their ‘prepper’ parents over dangerous ‘miracle’ supplement MMS

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ts-over-the-dangerous-miracle-supplement-mms/

http://www.minerals.net/mineral/chlorite.aspx

MyBelle--I have been doing some looking into MMS, why the FDA has taken a stand against it, who is marketing it and how as well as the "recommended" uses coming from the folks who are pushing it as a cure.

MMS, which is Sodium Chlorite (forgive my lack of chemistry background), which has legitimate uses in sanitation, etc, depending on things like how it is "activiated" (typically through the addition of an acid--which turns it into the equivalent of industrial bleach) and the level of concentration. The chief guru of this market (selling under the name of Miracle Mineral Solution) is a guy by the name of Jim Humble--who has various charges against him for fraud, smuggling, etc, in this country. He also fancies himself Bishop (of his own church, of course) and operates, I believe, out of Haiti. He is also attempting to open up new markets in Australia and Ireland--although he has met some governmental challenges there.

Among the claims he makes about MMS is that it cures HIV, cancer, autism, parasites, ebola and a slew of other non-related illnesses. His claim is that it can distinguish between good stuff and bad stuff in the body. Needless to say there is not one shred of scientific evidence to back any of his claims (which supporters claim is a result of the government and "big pharma" suppressing the evidence so they can make money selling their own treatments). Taken at the recommended levels, the chemical mix is dangerous if taken internally.

Now if you have the stomach for it, you can read some of the discussions of folks who are actually using it anyway (on themselves OR their children). The recommendations for use are to start with the recommended dose and increase it until it results in fever/nausea, etc (which is supposed to signal the illness leaving the body) and somehow play around with that line. The truly frightening cases involve how it is being sold among other snake oil remedies to desperate parents of children on the autism spectrum. The charlatans explain that autistic behaviors result from persistent parasites which can be treated through MMS enemas. Again--start with the recommended dose, increasing concentration and frequency until there is evidence of the parasites "leaving the body." On some discussion boards parents actually post pictures of what they believe to be "worms" found in their child's stool. It is actually (based on tests) the mucosal lining of the bowel being washed out by the bleach in the enemas.

Sorry to be so graphic, but this is what goes with the "off-label" usages.

The critical question would be if DHS had some information suggesting that MMS was not only present, but that it was being given to the children. The parents say no--however we have a Court ruling that accepts as credible some testimony regarding physical abuse. So--given the claims about what was contained in the warrant (all coming directly from the Stanleys), it seems not unreasonable to keep on the table a possibility that the Stanleys were doing more than "purifying the water for the hydroponics." As well as the Stanleys' discussions of corporal punishment, which may well have exceeded Arkansas legal limitations--which are not particularly limiting. However, I do recall a claim that a neighbor may have made (according to the Stanleys) that Hal had slapped one of the girls (blows to the face are specifically mentioned in the law). Based on Hal's sermons, he believes in chastising with a rod--however I didn't see anything in the Arkansas law to outlaw hitting with something other than an open hand (although a closed fist is not allowed). So the standard there would be whether there was more than transient pain or transient discoloration (apparently reddening is OK, bruising is not).

 

[Margo/Mom]

BBM. It would be great if you can cite some case law to support your statement of fact. Thanks.

The provision of home-based education by a district derives from the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act (IDEA) a federal law which requires states (through local districts) to provide a free and appropriate education (FAPE) in the least restrictive environment (LRE) to all students despite any health or educationally handicapping condition. At times the LRE for a student may be instruction at home. Like most of the requirements under IDEA, federal support covers only a portion of the cost, so districts tend to balk at compliance, typically arguing in favor of whatever is cheapest for them to provide. Only those students with a list of handicapping conditions, who have been evaluated by their district and determined to qualify, are covered by IDEA. Students who are found to qualify for at-home instruction are few and far between, typically those who are truly homebound due to infirmity (over an extended period), or those whose behavioral issues the district would rather not deal with. And even when those conditions are met, the "tutoring" tends to be minimal--approximately 2 hours per week. About the length of time required to drop-off homework and possibly go over a few things.

Nothing that I see in the Stanley case points to any of their kids qualifying under IDEA.
.

 

[bessythecat]

So--given the claims about what was contained in the warrant (all coming directly from the Stanleys), it seems not unreasonable to keep on the table a possibility that the Stanleys were doing more than "purifying the water for the hydroponics."

In my opinion, Michelle Stanley states in the press release on Youtube that HS was using MMS for health benefits. She says, "my husband who is older than me. He wants to be around for the kids, and so he is just getting [older?], his body gets more acid. He tests it, he watches the acidity go up [unadible]goes alkaline. He is having great benefits from it."

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNzJUdeEoA4&feature=youtu.be , 17:45 min mark.

(Delurking. First time posting. Thanks for the discussion, I have enjoyed reading this thread.)

 

[IAMME]

The state has no way of knowing what any individual child scores on the standardized testing.

http://a2zhomeschooling.com/laws/united_states/arkansas_home_school_laws/#results

Parents can chose to test in their homes, they do not have to have any specialized education to administer the tests and the state has no way of knowing who actually took the test.

http://www.examiner.com/article/arkansas-homeschoolers-can-administer-state-mandated-tests-at-home


http://arhomeschooltesting.org/files/LateTestingDocumentMay_1_2010.pdf

And this is only needed IF your child's doctor won't diagnose the child with something such as ADHD and recommend that they be exempt from testing permanently. As long as you are not requesting services such as occupational, physical, or speech therapy under IDEA, you aren't required to have an IEP from the school district. IMO

 

[MyBelle]

No, I stated that in my opinion and in my experience that it is laughably easy to get an exemption. I understand the laws in my state. I'm just saying that a lot of parents that I know take huge advantage of those laws. I know several home school families, off the top of my head I can think of 5 seperate families, with a total of 14 children and EVERY.SINGLE.ONE has an exemption.
I have a child who has an incredibly high IQ and I researched all of the educational opportunities possible for him, including homeschooling him, also my step son was "homeschooled" so that his mother could avoid prosecution when he dropped out of high school.
I am not against homeschooling, I think that when done well and for the right reasons that it is definately a better option for many children than traditional classroom instruction, but I live here and frequently I see people who take advantage of the leniency of the system. It isn't hard to have a child diagnosed with a "learning disorder" and get an exemption here..
Also it is not misinformation that the standardized tests are not needed for college admissions. Arkansas act 1290.
ALL IMO

With all due respect, there is no evidence whatsoever that the Stanleys are not following the requirements of home schooling in Arkansas. No evidence they chose home schooling in order to avoid prosecution for a crime. Two of the Stanley children are in college so they did meet the admissions standards.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

MMS is still sold. Hal Stanley is an adult and seems to be intelligent enough to make his own decisions about what he wishes to ingest in his own body. He's also used it to purify water for his garden which is also his right to decide. For the government to try to stretch his use of MMS into child abuse is pretty absurd.

JMO

 

[Morag]

If the 70-something HS chooses to guzzle Clorox or something similar, that's his right. But if he administers it to children- in whatever way- then it becomes something very different. At this time, we can't know what the state is investigating. We can be pretty sure it's not investigating what HS is doing to himself or his garden water.

 

[Margo/Mom]

MMS is still sold. Hal Stanley is an adult and seems to be intelligent enough to make his own decisions about what he wishes to ingest in his own body. He's also used it to purify water for his garden which is also his right to decide. For the government to try to stretch his use of MMS into child abuse is pretty absurd.

JMO

Unless, of course, he was actually giving it to the children. Again--we do not know the content of the credible testimony that was given to DHS and the Court.

 

[K_Z]

Regarding the MMS, I just want to point out that the Stanley family does not have a "hydroponics" system; they have an aquaponics system. There are dozens of pictures of their system on their wordpress site, and they are very proud of their efforts and the food they produced. Aquaponics relies on FISH to produce NITROGEN for the aquaponic plants to use to grow. The nitrogen comes from the byproducts of the fish-- their waste. Bleach kills nitrogen producing bacteria, and kills fish and plants, as well.

Aquaponics consists of two main parts, with the aquaculture part for raising aquatic animals and the hydroponics part for growing plants.[22][23] Aquatic effluents, resulting from uneaten feed or raising animals like fish, accumulate in water due to the closed-system recirculation of most aquaculture systems. The effluent-rich water becomes toxic to the aquatic animal in high concentrations but this contain nutrients essential for plant growth.[22] Although consisting primarily of these two parts, aquaponics systems are usually grouped into several components or subsystems responsible for the effective removal of solid wastes, for adding bases to neutralize acids, or for maintaining water oxygenation.[22] Typical components include:

Rearing tank: the tanks for raising and feeding the fish;

Settling basin: a unit for catching uneaten food and detached biofilms, and for settling out fine particulates;

Biofilter: a place where the nitrification bacteria can grow and convert ammonia into nitrates, which are usable by the plants;[22]

Hydroponics subsystem: the portion of the system where plants are grown by absorbing excess nutrients from the water;

Sump: the lowest point in the system where the water flows to and from which it is pumped back to the rearing tanks.

There is really no place for bleach in a healthy aquaponics system-- and his system produced some very nice vegetables in the pics. So, I call "BS" on that excuse, and don't buy his story at all that he's using MMS to "purify" any water in his aquaponics system. He and his wife know that the only on label, legitimate use of that particular substance is to "purify water". Proponents of this substance tell their customers the official "cover story" is that they are using it to "purify water."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics

 

[Margo/Mom]

By the way--paint and gasoline are both sold legally. That doesn't mean that you can feed them to your children.

 

[K_Z]

Exactly. The whole point of organic food production is to avoid chemicals and additives. And yet, vigorously defend drinking caustic bleach??

Sheesh. Putting MMS into water for food production would be like watering your garden or filling your fish tank with chlorinated pool water. You'd have dead plants and dead fish pretty quickly.

 

[IAMME]

We do not know what other allegations have been made against them, we only have HS's side that MMS "and other junk" are what the authorities are investigating. And OF COURSE if he has been abusing his kids he isn't likely to come out and say he has... The fact that these parents are christian, or preppies, or that they home school isn't the issue, there were allegations of abuse made, the state has found those allegations probable and serious enough to remove the children from the home. If this was a family with a long criminal history would you defend them? <modsnip>This is only about the families beliefs because the parents have made it so. Their beliefs are really not as uncommon in arkansas as everyone commenting on all of these sites would like to believe, I most certainly encounter more people with belief systems more similar to the Stanley's than not in my daily life.
If the state isn't allowed to take children from families who identify as christian in the state of arkansas, then pretty much 99% of the population will be immune lol.

 

[tlcya]

We do not know what other allegations have been made against them, we only have HS's side that MMS "and other junk" are what the authorities are investigating. And OF COURSE if he has been abusing his kids he isn't likely to come out and say he has... The fact that these parents are christian, or preppies, or that they home school isn't the issue, there were allegations of abuse made, the state has found those allegations probable and serious enough to remove the children from the home. If this was a family with a long criminal history would you defend them? If this were a Muslim family? This is only about the families beliefs because the parents have made it so. Their beliefs are really not as uncommon in arkansas as everyone commenting on all of these sites would like to believe, I most certainly encounter more people with belief systems more similar to the Stanley's than not in my daily life.
If the state isn't allowed to take children from families who identify as christian in the state of arkansas, then pretty much 99% of the population will be immune lol.

:goodpost: thank you.