Are wedding bells ringing?

[L L & S]

Oh wise Lunatic, you've made some really good points! We are here for justice for Janet and her child. I never want to see a justice for Vanessa forum.... ever.

 

[SeekingJana]

Janet knew they were renting. I'm not sure where the notion came from of him fooling her into thinking they had bought a home. That never happened. She knew they were renting, and she knew the landlord. And yes, in NC, the spouse must sign the deed for the home, regardless of whether or not they're listed as a guarantor on the loan. But he DID fool her in many other ways...

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and kind reply, NC Banker. I always enjoy reading your posts.
Maria

 

[SeekingJana]

WHEN Raven is convicted of his wife's murder and sent to prison, if he has married Vanessa, she will get custody of Kaiden, won't she?

I wish so much that Janet's family had some influence over his upbringing and sense of values.

 

[Clearly Confused]

WHEN Raven is convicted of his wife's murder and sent to prison, if he has married Vanessa, she will get custody of Kaiden, won't she?

I wish so much that Janet's family had some influence over his upbringing and sense of values.

I'm not sure what the laws are in Utah but here if she doesn't adopt him then no, she has no legal right to him.

I wonder how much Janet's family gets to see Kaiden, it at all.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

{{{Rainbows}}} Here's a hug.

Many people are in your position, and I can understand how difficult it must be that you and your own brother don't agree, but so many people have written to me that I have never met and said, they heard Janet "died" and automatically thought Raven killed her....before they even knew details and there are those that actually really loved him very much and are resigned that he did it and yet don't hate him, but hurt deeply.

Thanks for the caring and the hugs. I was actually caught off guard by the caring because so many of us here have known Janet or Raven. I don't know how to express this correctly, but I don't feel like this is my loss. I feel that I am connected to the case and will stick with it forever until I see that Kaiden is safely grown and out of the house and that justice is served. I feel the loss is Janet's families and that I have no business claiming any of the hugs that should be going to them. (Yes, I know that there are enough hugs in the world that everyone can have some).

So hugs to Janets family. I am out here quietly each day thinking about you and hoping you will have peace, hoping you will have time with Kaiden, and wishing I could soothe some of your pain.

As far as how I feel about Raven, I do not hate him, just as you stated above. I have gone through shock, pain, sorrow, anger, but now I just have a sad hole in my heart especially when I think about how Janet's family must feel. I am hurt, and I know that so many other people hurt. My pain must be so tiny compared to that of Janet's family. I can't change the past and hating Raven won't bring back Janet. I just hope everyday that something will happen that can bring peace to Janet's family.

 

[terminatrixator]

Rainbows everyone deserves a hug. There are so many people that are touched by this crime. Friend of both Janet & Ravens. Janet's family of course are hurt yet there are also friends, neighbors, coworkers.

There are times I feel I need a hug because I get so worked up over this case, and I am not related to Janet.

It's another senseless murder of a woman and unborn child by a person who played Judge, Jury and executioner of his wife. He took away Janet's free will for his own selfish reasons. He had the power to stop the plans he put in motion until he killed her. Even after she was stabbed once, it could have stopped there.

You don't have to be directly related to one or the other to be hurt by this crime and Raven seems to be the one that keeps pulling in new people all the time to be indirectly hurt by actions that were taken in April of 2005.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Yeah, I don't want Vanessa or her daughter to become any of the new people hurt by Raven. I'm sad because it seems like there is nothing that we can do. Vanessa, and any other adult has the right to be friends with, associate with, or date Raven etc. No one should have that right and freedom taken from them. Yet, I feel like an outsider screaming to be careful and think twice. I can't change the past, but I will commit to try to prevent people from being hurt in the future.

 

[thefragile7393]

As far as what Vanessa thinks of us, or me personally, I have no control over that and it does not bother me if she hates me or thinks I'm crazy.

Oh I should hope you wouldn't care...or ever stop speaking out. My comments were directed towards some of the comments left on her myspace...not about anything that you have said or done.

And I guess until LE gets irrefutable stuff to pin him on....all we can do is just...wait. And keep waiting. And hoping that history dosn't repeat itself.

 

[SeekingJana]

All I can see is a part of Vanessa's private MySpace home page. I don't know, but I don't see ANY evidence that she and Raven are married.

Does anyone local ( or almost local) have the ability to search for a marriage license? I'm not sure she went through with it, probably wishful thinking on my part.. but her MS page has just her photo, the old one, the Ghandi quote that a poster here uses, and the mood " drained". I thought she would have changed it back to some kind of " in your face" kind of statement if they were married now.

It makes me wonder if maybe she did call it off and find someone suitable to be around her little girl, be her husband and father their children.

Anyone in Utah or elsewhere able to help find out for certain?
Thanks,
Maria

 

[SeekingJana]

Oh I should hope you wouldn't care...or ever stop speaking out. My comments were directed towards some of the comments left on her myspace...not about anything that you have said or done.

And I guess until LE gets irrefutable stuff to pin him on....all we can do is just...wait. And keep waiting. And hoping that history dosn't repeat itself.

I can't see her " MySpace" comments. If you are referring to the " The Knot" page, which as far as I know is not a part of MySpace, the only comment I find to be distasteful and heartless is the one signed " Janet Abaroa".
If a person did it in good faith, it is still in poor taste. The other comments are true, to the best of our knowledge.

Maria

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I'm not sure she went through with it, probably wishful thinking on my part.. but her MS page has just her photo, the old one, the Ghandi quote that a poster here uses, and the mood " drained".

Maybe she's "drained" from an emotionally difficult break-up. Let's hope. She last logged in on July 3. Does she normally log in daily?

 

[SeekingJana]

Maybe she's "drained" from an emotionally difficult break-up. Let's hope. She last logged in on July 3. Does she normally log in daily?

LOL, JerseyGirl, I had wondered the exact same thing about her log ins. I'm sorry that I don't know. I usually stay as far away from MySpace, FaceBook and AOL as I can.

We will know in time, I expect. Surely someone who knows that family of his will tell a poster here something.

Maria

 

[terminatrixator]

Could be Raven was upset by the picture she posted and is already starting to order her around and control her. EDITED TO ADD: He's controlling that picture does not look like the type of picture that he would want out there. They are not married, they are living together, she has not been married. He's a user, he may need to use the church again in the future, and that picture is not something he may want public.

Also, has anyone ever thought that it could be a friend or relative of Vanessa or Raven's that posted the comment on The Knot, as it's the only way they can think of to get to her?

I'm not sure who posted what on The Knot, but we don't know that anyone here posted that.

I am pretty sure by now she has some friends and relatives that aren't thrilled with this union, and there may be people that are close with Raven that wants to give him and her a little dig also.

I heard that he's ruffled a lot of feathers and been in a lot of serious relationships since Janet's murder....

I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

 

[SeekingJana]

Could be Raven was upset by the picture she posted and is already starting to order her around and control her. EDITED TO ADD: He's controlling that picture does not look like the type of picture that he would want out there. They are not married, they are living together, she has not been married. He's a user, he may need to use the church again in the future, and that picture is not something he may want public.

Also, has anyone ever thought that it could be a friend or relative of Vanessa or Raven's that posted the comment on The Knot, as it's the only way they can think of to get to her?

I'm not sure who posted what on The Knot, but we don't know that anyone here posted that.

I am pretty sure by now she has some friends and relatives that aren't thrilled with this union, and there may be people that are close with Raven that wants to give him and her a little dig also.

I heard that he's ruffled a lot of feathers and been in a lot of serious relationships since Janet's murder....

I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

I already owned up to posting one of the posts on The Knot. Too late to become anonymous now, I suppose, LOL. But mine was not one which dishonored Janet, IMO.

So, Term, are you saying that you know they aren't married? I'm not unhealthily obsessed about Raven's marital status, but I've worried so about the little girl in the situation. I hope she's out of it for good, along with her mom.

Thank you,
Maria

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I want to start my post by saying that I didn't write a note on the knot as Janet. That said, I do not think the person that wrote it meant to insult Janet or her family. I can see both sides, arguing that it went to far and is tacky. I also think that Janet would be telling people to beware of Raven and to stear clear of him. I don't think there was any intent to hurt feelings or to be tacky. I think the persons intent was to make it clear to Vanessa to be careful.

As far as marriage licenses, I think they are public, but I doubt they would have married in Utah, so it may be harder to find the records.

Finally, I actually think that living together may be a good solution for dealing with Raven. He likes to go from woman to woman. Without strong ties (marriage) he is free like a bird to leave. I don't think he will ever feel trapped if they are just living together.

Finally, I wish there was more to talk about on this case then who Raven is dating. I don't think that we can say anymore. People have tried to reach out to Vanessa. Whatever decision she has made is her decision. I don't want to snoop into Vanessa's life. I would rather leave her alone, but we all worry about her safety.

I wish there was something else going on with this case for us to focus on.

I guess I am just sad that this case will forever be one that hangs out in the unsolved mysteries file, when it isn't a mystery at all.

 

[terminatrixator]

I'm not sure if he's married or not and I'm not obsessed by who he is dating either and I don't think anyone is obsessed by who he is dating.

Raven has so many "serious" relationships since Janet was murdered for a reason. He needs to Mommy shop so he LOOKS like he is innocent.

I am worried about Vanessa but more so worried about Auria. Raven's family is very dysfunctional from his Grandfather down to his sister.

Raven is not right, he is not good, he is a bad person. He's a CONVICTED FELON. He has been a thief and a con artist most of his life. He lies, he cheats, he steals, and....

It's the "and" I'm worried about.

I heard Raven is getting married in CA in August and then Reception in Utah.

Lucky for many of us here, it's a small world and word gets around.

I also believe that the post at The Knot was not purposely done to hurt anyone in particular.

I was trying to say that it could have even been a post by someone that knows Vanessa and not necessarily anyone from Websleuths.

If I was someone in Vanessa's family or a friend of hers, I would read EVERYTHING on this site and then do whatever it took to get Vanessa to protect her daughter and stay away from Raven.

I just want the murderer of Janet arrested, tried and convicted so he can't hurt anyone else and I want Justice for Janet and her unborn child.

 

[newkid]

All I can see is a part of Vanessa's private MySpace home page. I don't know, but I don't see ANY evidence that she and Raven are married.

Does anyone local ( or almost local) have the ability to search for a marriage license? I'm not sure she went through with it, probably wishful thinking on my part.. but her MS page has just her photo, the old one, the Ghandi quote that a poster here uses, and the mood " drained". I thought she would have changed it back to some kind of " in your face" kind of statement if they were married now.

It makes me wonder if maybe she did call it off and find someone suitable to be around her little girl, be her husband and father their children.

Anyone in Utah or elsewhere able to help find out for certain?
Thanks,
Maria

I am sorta local, but so far am not having much luck. I would need to know the date of their marriage but I also would have to be an immediate family member to get a copy. I can't find any sort of option just to verify a marriage https://silver.health.utah.gov/marriagedivorceinfo.htm

I did run into somebody who said they saw Raven and Vanessa out and about together within about the last month.

Oh after I read some more, if they're getting married in CA, I'm not local.

 

[terminatrixator]

Yeah, in CA you can get your marriage license and get married same day.

I believe Raven and Vanessa were living in his condo, the one he supposedly purchased.

EDITED TO SAY: THIS PURCHASE WAS BACK WHEN HE WAS WORKING FOR CANYON CYCLES....YOU KNOW THE PLACE THAT HE SO ABRUPTLY LEFT, THE ONE THAT HE WORKED WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER.....AND THERE WAS INFORMATION FLOATING OUT THERE THAT RAVEN WAS ONCE AGAIN STEALING FROM CANYON CYCLES AND THAT'S WHY HE'S GONE.

I AM WONDERING HOW MANY TIMES SINCE HAS HE STOLEN? ANY NEWS ON HIS ELECTRICIAN JOBS? I CAN'T SEE HIM POSSIBLY GETTING A CERTIFICATE WITH THE ELECTRICIANS UNION, BECAUSE HE HAS SUCH A HARD TIME PASSING CLASSES.

 

[newkid]

He has an active license as an apprentice eletrician with no disciplinary citations https://secure.utah.gov/llv/llv;jsessionid=ahR1UAA3HnTd . If he did fail to disclose his felony conviction before applying for a license, they will catch up with him. This ia a link http://www.dopl.utah.gov/licensing/electrical.html to the minutes of the meetings for the board responsible for licensing, I've been searching the minutes for his name but haven't come across it yet.

 

[terminatrixator]

He has an active license as an apprentice eletrician with no disciplinary citations https://secure.utah.gov/llv/llv;jsessionid=ahR1UAA3HnTd . If he did fail to disclose his felony conviction before applying for a license, they will catch up with him. This ia a link http://www.dopl.utah.gov/licensing/electrical.html to the minutes of the meetings for the board responsible for licensing, I've been searching the minutes for his name but haven't come across it yet.

Newkid, awesome information. Thank you.

I am not sure if you remember this but when I was doing some sleuthing I ran into that information regarding Karyn filing bankruptcy. I was very perplexed by this as this information on the bankruptcy came up after we found out she and Jim just took a cruise to Hawaii. I thought, wait a second, how can she afford a cruise, real-estate in Florida and they sold their home, and now she's filing bankruptcy, something is up here.

Bottom line, the entire thread is gone, but the relevant information is that there was an on-line blog from a young man who went with his wife on the this vacation. He blogs that his father is the President of the Local Chapter of NECA (National Electrical Contractors Union). He states in the Prologue they chose Hawaii to be where the annual conference was to be held.

On day 4 of the Blog there is a picture of Karen & Jim
http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-entries/jstylzz/1/1203840240/tpod.html and it states Jim is one of this guys father's employees.

I've heard that Jim Bolton is a decent guy and he probably did what he could to make sure Raven did things on the up and up, but where Karyn and Raven go, chaos seems to happen and nothing is ever on the up and up where these two are concerned.

I'm pretty sure that Raven would have had to put his embezzlement down. We all get tickets and nobody is perfect. I went to jail once for fist fighting, nobody is immune or perfect, but this guy has a felony record, and his wife was murdered, and they all have had to have heard that something weird happened at the cell phone place and canyon cycles.