Frigga, I am so tired of this whole curling character destroying scam that this women has concocted. My interest is why this happens to humans. How do I identify this type of narcissistic personality so I recognize when they are in my life. I do think she is mentally ill however not so mentally to use as excuse. IMHO
Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias
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Iil buddy read the article with link.
Of interest is the charismatic personalities of some of these people. They still maintained their nacissim through and supported by the prison system. Released early because of public support of character. Only to reoffend with the same brutality. Joie arias srikes me of this type even if sentenced she will continue to keep herself in the light. This is her moment ....no matter how she received it.
Jeffssis
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Dr. Lillian Glass is just finishing up a book on this very subject. She talked about it on Trisha's True Crime Radio Sunday night. Check it out.
writer7
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I think JA killed because it was different with Travis. She was older and had decided she wanted to get married, which sounds new. She hadn't met a guy she thought was a better catch, when she usually did find one around her earlier choices. She didn't get the chance to get tired of him first.
She basically dumped every other guy before Travis. She was through with them when she was through with them and not a moment before. Then she dumped them unceremoniously, and for another guy. That's not how it was working out with Travis and their breakup. He didn't play by her rules and folks like JA make people pay for that.
I do think she was afraid of him badmouthing her. She liked the community they were in, too, and Travis had clout within it. Her other boyfriends didn't hold that same place in society (so to speak) and so she didn't care what they said. Her respect for Travis was ironically what led to his murder
He really did mean more to her than the others, imho. She really wanted ownership of him, and that not working out just wasn't going to happen without some major acting out by her (extreme violence, like a male stalker ex).
She showed huge stalking tendencies before with other relationships, so it was probably just escalation, too. The acting out got worse and worse as she went on in life, like a serial killer ramping up from peeping to rape to killing to serial killing.
She basically dumped every other guy before Travis. She was through with them when she was through with them and not a moment before. Then she dumped them unceremoniously, and for another guy. That's not how it was working out with Travis and their breakup. He didn't play by her rules and folks like JA make people pay for that.
I do think she was afraid of him badmouthing her. She liked the community they were in, too, and Travis had clout within it. Her other boyfriends didn't hold that same place in society (so to speak) and so she didn't care what they said. Her respect for Travis was ironically what led to his murder
He really did mean more to her than the others, imho. She really wanted ownership of him, and that not working out just wasn't going to happen without some major acting out by her (extreme violence, like a male stalker ex).
She showed huge stalking tendencies before with other relationships, so it was probably just escalation, too. The acting out got worse and worse as she went on in life, like a serial killer ramping up from peeping to rape to killing to serial killing.
lil_buddy
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New article!
Is Jodi Arias a battered woman, obsessive woman, a femme fatale or a sociopath?
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201303/is-jodi-arias-sociopath
Is Jodi Arias a battered woman, obsessive woman, a femme fatale or a sociopath?
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201303/is-jodi-arias-sociopath
Lil buddy thanks for the link. Read article and brings me back to the reason WHY. DSM criteria states the onset of behaviors related to sociopaths begin in early teens or younger. Their antisocial behaviors are marked in decades of time. Jodi did not have any prior behavior that would have her meet criteria for sociopath diagnosis. Her past appears to be rather "normal". So, back to my question why? Does she meet criteria of narcissistic personality? Is she a obsessive stalker
writer7
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We know so little about her childhood there's no way we'd know, unless she actually got a permanent, open record about it. That doesn't happen often enough if you are looking at that as the conclusive sort of red flag about folks.
I'm sure her family has some tales they could tell. Or her old good friends at school could tell a thing or two. Her old baby sitter had a story that was interesting. We've heard from her old co-worker about the cat sitting and how that went. We know how predatory she seemed with her men, where she got more out of the relationships than just love, for sure.
But if you look at first-time murderers, many of them look like normal people with relatively normal lives. Think of all of the men who kill their girlfriends or wives. JA is just in that league, imho. There's nothing extraordinary about her that way. She's like a female Scott Peterson, basically, imho (or any number of non-high-profile murders of women because of their intimate partner).
eta: oh, and women do it, too and always have! The male version is just so much more common that we don't even ponder the whys much anymore. That's why I bring up the men. The women have historically poisoned their husbands, and that has always been a known possibility in crime. There are more than enough of those type of women, for sure and it's always been that way.
I'm sure her family has some tales they could tell. Or her old good friends at school could tell a thing or two. Her old baby sitter had a story that was interesting. We've heard from her old co-worker about the cat sitting and how that went. We know how predatory she seemed with her men, where she got more out of the relationships than just love, for sure.
But if you look at first-time murderers, many of them look like normal people with relatively normal lives. Think of all of the men who kill their girlfriends or wives. JA is just in that league, imho. There's nothing extraordinary about her that way. She's like a female Scott Peterson, basically, imho (or any number of non-high-profile murders of women because of their intimate partner).
eta: oh, and women do it, too and always have! The male version is just so much more common that we don't even ponder the whys much anymore. That's why I bring up the men. The women have historically poisoned their husbands, and that has always been a known possibility in crime. There are more than enough of those type of women, for sure and it's always been that way.
Writer7 thanks for your input always well worth the read. Beautiful people get away with more things than average gals like me. They also get jobs easier and more chances than those of average looks. The past women did a whole lot of poisoning. In recent crimes the women are becoming more violent in method. As Bob Dylan says "the times they are a changing."
minazoe
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she is a psycho killer
a total natural born killer... not a killer cause she had an emotional meltdown, not a killer who just snapped and fired a gun...
not just jealous...
she murders with lizard like clarity... with a camera...with her own weapons...what seems like mania is controlled rage....she is not in mania...and if she is in a mania it's fueled by adrenaline...
I knew a kid once, he was fifteen or so...he believed he was a martian and expected all of his school friends to comply and not question. He had this flat affect and utmost belief and could lie in your face all day long. I always thought he could not be confronted or challenged without having a possible freak out.
I can't explain it...but it isn't "crazy" it's something else...It's almost like Jodi refuses to face, even now that the relationship she had in her head isn't the real relationship she had.
She better never get out...she is super dangerous...like rip your face off dangerous.
'
a total natural born killer... not a killer cause she had an emotional meltdown, not a killer who just snapped and fired a gun...
not just jealous...
she murders with lizard like clarity... with a camera...with her own weapons...what seems like mania is controlled rage....she is not in mania...and if she is in a mania it's fueled by adrenaline...
I knew a kid once, he was fifteen or so...he believed he was a martian and expected all of his school friends to comply and not question. He had this flat affect and utmost belief and could lie in your face all day long. I always thought he could not be confronted or challenged without having a possible freak out.
I can't explain it...but it isn't "crazy" it's something else...It's almost like Jodi refuses to face, even now that the relationship she had in her head isn't the real relationship she had.
She better never get out...she is super dangerous...like rip your face off dangerous.
'
ShadyLadySleuth
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A certain handsome, young man was munching on an apple on a park bench one day on his lunch break. He happened to notice a tiny little spider beside him which he quickly dismissed as harmless. He began reading a paperback book which he was enjoying in the warm sun. After about 30 minutes he realized it must be time for him to return to his office. When he attempted to get up off the park bench, he was horrified to realize that the spider had spun her web around him, encasing him in a cocoon-like structure! He couldn't move his arms are legs at all! He was completely encased in her web. Then he looked down at his feet and saw the tiny little spider had taken hold of a thin tendril of webbing in her mouth and began dragging him off into the bushes. He tried to scream for help but the web muffled his voice and it was useless. As he disappeared behind the bushes, the little girl spider thought to herself, "Now it's time for MY lunch!"
lil_buddy
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Gecko100
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There's a couple of sites which I hope are ok to mention, describing the narcissist quite well. One is Bullyonline, and the other Sam Vaknin. Sam Vaknin is a psychopathic narcissist who was the subject of a TV program called 'I, Psychopath'. This documentary delves into the world of these people, and tracks him as he travels around the world being diagnosed by different psychiatrists. There is a back story which is very interesting too.
He is a married man, writer and has a doctorate (although that part is questionable). :giggle:
lil_buddy
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Does anybody find her journals interesting? As it's been mentioned before, they don't read like a diary of her own thoughts, they read like someone else will read them. So what's the point of them?
Are these windows into what she wanted/tried to be - I mean does she know she's evil, and she tries to counter that with these journal entries?
I'd like to hear thoughts on this, if anyone has some. Thanks.
ETA - or do people like her actually enjoy the thoughts and recognize their evilness? The journals I just don't get in connection to her.
Are these windows into what she wanted/tried to be - I mean does she know she's evil, and she tries to counter that with these journal entries?
I'd like to hear thoughts on this, if anyone has some. Thanks.
ETA - or do people like her actually enjoy the thoughts and recognize their evilness? The journals I just don't get in connection to her.
crimesnooper
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This is the problem I do have with the case. TA's behavior makes sense to me if we stop looking at him through the eyes of his friends..to whom he was just about a saint. SO many have gone on the media circuit claiming TA wouldn't do this..wouldn't do that. IMO they knew one side of him..not the whole person. He had some serious issues and I think he treated her very poorly. And I don't buy this idea that he was so virginal and she just seduced him with her wicked ways.
He was a player in a lot of ways. He knew he was using her. And I can't imagine someone with his background came through without a few relationship issues. Also, we only have his word, if I understand the infor, that she slashed his tires twice. Where is the proof she did this? Police report? If not, why not? Someone slices your tires twice..you call the cops. I think there was a lot more to him including a dark side. And I think the portrayal of him as a wonderful person to all is unfair. Clearly the texts ect show he was very capable of being selflish and mean.
WE are left with people like the nut job "intutitive" on Dr. Drew and other friends describing JA as evil before the murder.. The one that get's me is the friend who said he and his wife were talking to TA while JA was in their house, telling him she should break up with her. They report she came in the room and looked like she wanted to kill. OK if I were at a friend's house with my boyfriend and they are in earshot telling him to break up with me..I would look like I wanted to kill too. I think she has been completely demonized to the point of being absurd.
But I think we(me) just can't quite come to terms with who she is psychologically. If this happened in a fit of rage, I might have an easier time understanding her profile.
What does all this mean to me? It means that the focus has been taken off the mountain of evidence that this was a premediated murder. She meticoulsy planned and exectuted the slaughter of a less than perfect young man who did not in any way desrve what she did.
I was helped a great deal by reading "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck. He says that evil people feel empathy for and the pain of the ones they hurt, and there is apparently some benefit they get from inflicting pain on others. After reading that book I have actually been able to feet a certain sympathy for psychopaths who don't have a conscience, don't feel others' pain, and don't seem to have control of their actions the same way evil people do.
I learned nothing about Jodi from her testimony aside from the obvious fact that I can't believe her.
However, I did get some insight from the "48 Hours" clip where she talked about sending flowers to Travis' grandmother and said "... he liked the name Hinckley (ph) and Megan (ph) and Reagan (ph). And I thought Hinckley was an interesting name for a girl`s name. It`s actually a last name."
It struck me that she not only lied there but by the absurd exaggeration of it showed evidence that she wanted the family to know she was lying and wanted them to be hurt by the lie. At the same time it's diabolically frustrating since you can't prove for a fact it's a lie and she's flaunting that in you face which adds to the pain.
I once knew someone who was like Jodi in the sense that she could babble for hours about things that were implausibly hard to believe and over time the stories became increasingly outrageous demonstrating that she wanted me to be certain that she was lying. One time I observed in her face something that years later I found out is called a microexpression when she paused during a story and for an instant there was a look of sheer terror, and this was in a situation completely benign and non-threatening. To make a long story short, I eventually concluded, largely because of that unforgettable instant, that her mind was complex in a way that was far beyond my ability to grasp or speculate about. Does she actually feel terror all the time while keeping it hidden except for a rare microexpression, and is constant fear the explanation for her behavior? I will never know but the thought occurred to me. Although I certainly did not see such a facial expression in Jodi, I still put her in the class of people who can't be understood by me at all. (To be clear, the expression on Jodi that some people refer to as smugness or smirking is not what I mean by microexpression.)
I learned nothing about Jodi from her testimony aside from the obvious fact that I can't believe her.
However, I did get some insight from the "48 Hours" clip where she talked about sending flowers to Travis' grandmother and said "... he liked the name Hinckley (ph) and Megan (ph) and Reagan (ph). And I thought Hinckley was an interesting name for a girl`s name. It`s actually a last name."
It struck me that she not only lied there but by the absurd exaggeration of it showed evidence that she wanted the family to know she was lying and wanted them to be hurt by the lie. At the same time it's diabolically frustrating since you can't prove for a fact it's a lie and she's flaunting that in you face which adds to the pain.
I once knew someone who was like Jodi in the sense that she could babble for hours about things that were implausibly hard to believe and over time the stories became increasingly outrageous demonstrating that she wanted me to be certain that she was lying. One time I observed in her face something that years later I found out is called a microexpression when she paused during a story and for an instant there was a look of sheer terror, and this was in a situation completely benign and non-threatening. To make a long story short, I eventually concluded, largely because of that unforgettable instant, that her mind was complex in a way that was far beyond my ability to grasp or speculate about. Does she actually feel terror all the time while keeping it hidden except for a rare microexpression, and is constant fear the explanation for her behavior? I will never know but the thought occurred to me. Although I certainly did not see such a facial expression in Jodi, I still put her in the class of people who can't be understood by me at all. (To be clear, the expression on Jodi that some people refer to as smugness or smirking is not what I mean by microexpression.)
ATasteOfHoney
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I'm not saying that JA or anyone else had Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) but Cate49, if you're around one you'll know it. NPD's are emotional bullies. They will put you down so that they feel superior. They are social, economic, and occupational "climbers". Sometimes if you show your soft side or nice emotions around them, that is the time you are most vulnerable to an NPD---their sudden and inappropriate comments/words will cut you like a knife! Their words will sting you! :what:
NPD's are resistant to seeking therapy and reluctant to change. They must always be the expert know-it-alls. They live their lives in an invisible competition with everyone. They are the proverbial "sharks" when you hear the expression "swimming with the sharks".
Hope my :twocents: helps. Oh, yeah....if you do meet an NPD, just walk away. There is no winning.
It does help and thank you. It would be much easier if crazy people look crazy.
It was interesting that doctor on stand says she has PTS. He allowed her to check off a multiple questioner on criteria in DSM for PTS. That just took credibility from his diagnosis. She new how to manipulate to receive diagnosis.
I see so much of my former self with Jodi. I fell in love with a man from a different religion, in my case a Muslim & totally lost myself in trying to be the woman he would want to marry. I remember the anger & despair as I realised no matter what I did or sacrifices I made I would NEVER be more to him than a weakness he was ashamed of. My self esteem was so low that I let myself be used.
BUT!!!! I chased him & begged him to come back to me when I knew he wanted to end it, that what we had was at odds with how he wanted to live his life. I knew his weaknesses & I played on them in order to have him for 1 more night. I, like Jodi could have walked away at any time. Travis, like my ex were honest in that they wanted a woman more like themselves. We were not controlled by these men, we were controlled by our own lack of self esteem, that cried out 'why are we not good enough?'
I feel Jodi does not have a truly formed identity, she becomes whoever she is currently enamoured with. She feels inferior to others, but overcompensates by speaking in a superior ton& using fancy words she doesn't really know the meaning of. She is self-obsessed & can only see the wrongs that have been done to her & not the role she played in her own downfall.
Unlike Jodi, the final ultimatum I gave my ex was to give me a proper relationship or never see me again. Years down the line I can see how stupid I was, that the more crap I took, the less respect he had for me. Live & learn
If Jodi had any brains (or her defence come to that!) they would have gone for a crime of passion defence, instead of blackening a man's name whose only crime was in not wanting her. I pray she is convicted of murder in the 1st degree.
BUT!!!! I chased him & begged him to come back to me when I knew he wanted to end it, that what we had was at odds with how he wanted to live his life. I knew his weaknesses & I played on them in order to have him for 1 more night. I, like Jodi could have walked away at any time. Travis, like my ex were honest in that they wanted a woman more like themselves. We were not controlled by these men, we were controlled by our own lack of self esteem, that cried out 'why are we not good enough?'
I feel Jodi does not have a truly formed identity, she becomes whoever she is currently enamoured with. She feels inferior to others, but overcompensates by speaking in a superior ton& using fancy words she doesn't really know the meaning of. She is self-obsessed & can only see the wrongs that have been done to her & not the role she played in her own downfall.
Unlike Jodi, the final ultimatum I gave my ex was to give me a proper relationship or never see me again. Years down the line I can see how stupid I was, that the more crap I took, the less respect he had for me. Live & learn
If Jodi had any brains (or her defence come to that!) they would have gone for a crime of passion defence, instead of blackening a man's name whose only crime was in not wanting her. I pray she is convicted of murder in the 1st degree.
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