Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[Sherazhad]

By the way, I knew very little about this trial as I live overseas. The 1st I got to see of Jodi was watching the trial life feed ,so I came to it much as the jury would with limited info & with an open mind. Immediately I saw something was ''off' about her, that she struggled so much with her story that she obbviously wasn't speaking from memory (even the non-foggy parts!) TThe biggest perception I had though is that this is no abused woman!!! Since then I've gone on youtube to see analysis & learn more about the case. I was surprised to see so many analysts attack Martinez for being so aggressive, but can't they see that this so-called meek abused woman was snarky & *****y with a highly educated, experienced prosecutor who has put women on death row. Any normal person would not trade jibes with him, particularly when fighting for their lives. I think he's doing a great job, she can't stand that she can't manipulate him with her fancy words & she's losing their thread of her 'story' & making countless mistakes & contradictions & it's all because Martinez knew how to get to her, I really admire him.

 

[Only4Justice]

I'm not saying that JA or anyone else had Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) but Cate49, if you're around one you'll know it. NPD's are emotional bullies. They will put you down so that they feel superior. They are social, economic, and occupational "climbers". Sometimes if you show your soft side or nice emotions around them, that is the time you are most vulnerable to an NPD---their sudden and inappropriate comments/words will cut you like a knife! Their words will sting you! :what:

NPD's are resistant to seeking therapy and reluctant to change. They must always be the expert know-it-alls. They live their lives in an invisible competition with everyone. They are the proverbial "sharks" when you hear the expression "swimming with the sharks".

Hope my :twocents: helps. Oh, yeah....if you do meet an NPD, just walk away. There is no winning.

thank you for this post!! You describe my ex-husband to a tee. Good reminder. No winning

:seeya:

 

[thelmadawg]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but if not, take a look at this bizarre behavior by JA after the final police interview. JM should play it in his final wrap!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/1...dstand-minutes-before-murder/?test=latestnews

 

[Dmacky]

Lifetime movie in the works about this trial!

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=796451

 

[annmarie62]

I haven't posted on this case yet (unlike the CA trial, fat lot of good my opinions made in the end!) because JA has been so hard to understand; I mean, you can't use normal thought processes to form opinions as you would with the everyday people you observe. This girl is, imo, lacking a lot of human traits that we normally expect to see in others, to whatever degree. She is completely unaware of how others are repelled by her or at least avoid having to be anywhere near her. I agree with Sherazhad that JA never developed a fully formed identity. From the time she dropped out of hs to live with some dude, she never attempted to learn anything on her own. No GED I think, no tech school, no real career path except waiting tables which she had to learn as a kid. It seems she paid to join PPL on a whim, and then hooked up with TA from the first and just tried to follow him around. She wasn't trying to prove herself in the job; I think she would have left PPL in a short time if she hadn't met TA- it must have taken some time before TA realized she wasn't doing jacksquat and heard his superiors dismiss her. Yet he lets her follow him all over and she runs up her credit cards to pay her way, risking that TA would soon rescue her somehow. Very risky and strange, because TA wasn't splurging on her. I loved crimesnooper's comments about TA. He was no saint. He treated her badly because she let him. It is very boring in the long run to date someone who worships you and lets you do anything- it compels a lot of people to get mean and it leads to behaviors/words that are downright cruel. It's making someone choose to leave you without admitting you made them suffer because they disgust you. TA only needed JA for sex, but he was soooooo immature for his age- it was like he was a 14-yr-old boy watching *advertiser censored* for the first time, or getting his first bj. TA couldn't control himself, it was like he had to try every fantasy before his luck ran out. All that anal, eew! Most guys don't start out w/that! He spoke to JA like it was a 900 number and as she just giggled he got more and more vulgar and rough. This wasn't a real couple having fun with ropes or dominance; this was just TA doing whatever he wanted on a robotic "3-hole wonder." WHAT a disgusting and degrading term to call a woman. "You will be my personal *advertiser censored*," whatever. TA was now living in a fantasy *advertiser censored* movie. Like giving an alcoholic a truckload of booze. Too bad he had to hide his issues, because someone could have reined him in; I'll bet the LDS has a place for "cures." He probably would have married a suitable Mormon girl within a year and started a family. Most likely he would have pervy moments from time to time, but hey, that describes most people I know, lol. And then he lets her in one more time not realizing that he had no idea who was coming in his door. Poor Travis. He didn't deserve this, he had a lot of growing up to do. The right woman probably would teach him how to treat her; he needed someone to call him on his BS, like we all do. JA is a horrible, dangerous person.

 

[Islander1]

My mother-in-law is a diagnosed BPD. She is such a destructive force that I have to admit, even though it breaks my heart to do so, that had I known then what I do now I would not have even started dating my husband. Less than two years into the marriage she was no longer welcome in my home. I do not have children and I encourage my husband to spend time with his mom, but unfortunately she refused to acknowledge any personal boundaries.
BPD is such hard thing to deal with, I can tell when my husband speaks to his mother on the phone. Instantly, his whole personality changes; he seems defeated. He is this loving, vibrant person that morphs into flat and emotional less whenever he has to deal with her. Any kind of 'fuss' you make about any situation she is involved in feeds into whatever makes her tick, so we have to just try to protect ourselves without reacting. Her response to being held responsible for anything is to threaten suicide. It is an impossible situation for my husband.
Watching Jodi on the stand reminds me of my MIL, totally void of empathy and has no shame in being caught lying. Interestingly my MIL's go to response when caught lying is, "I don't remember saying that".
Jodi's interrogation interviews when lying about intruders attacking Travis Alexander's is obviously 'missing' appropriate affect, something is not coming through in her story. The one instance that seems to ring true is when she says her finger injury hurt "for real", she places importance and emphasis on her broken finger (it appears to me) as much as his multiple stab wounds. IMO it is because she can't feel or understand his pain because, simply put, it's not hers so therefore she assigns no value to it.
I have watched my MIL do this so often, it drives me crazy. She is a smart woman, a college professor with a PhD. She obviously has the ability to understand she is not acting, or reacting correctly, but she can't mimic complex emotions. She gets, and excels at, logical thinking (again reminding me of Jodi Arias) but anything that does not travel "ought to is" is out of her reach.
My MIL has an excuse for her BPD, she points to her mom and childhood abuse(bogus in my opinion). Of course that is not how BPD (she tells strangers it is PTSD not BPD) works but most people don't know and give her an initial pass because of her story. Again much like Jodi Arias, she doesn't understand how telling a story about her mom pulling her hair as a child and causing life long trauma to her psyche but still constantly asking people to brush or braid her hair don't jive. (it is one of her more benign ways of being the center of attention at all times, I have seriously seen her ask for a French braid at the dinner table).

For the people getting treatment and dealing with BPD I commend you, and do not want to offend anyone. I don't want to lump all PDs together. I do not believe BPD=bad. My personal story is my experience with just one person who has been identified to me as having BPD, but I understand there are a million other stories that are different, and some not bad at all. I believe that, like any other part of each individual, it is personal and varies from person to person.

 

[Ricochet]

He allowed her to check off a multiple questioner on criteria in DSM for PTS. That just took credibility from his diagnosis. She new how to manipulate to receive diagnosis.

Actually, it would be quite the opposite! It would support his diagnosis, and doubtful she would know how to manipulate the test. Even the highly regarded mmpi - 2 test is comprised of yes/no questions. She did not take that test. I don't have an opinion of the Dr. one way or the other, however he has met with her 12 times which is relevant, and it's highly doubtful he gave her a test that he wrote, also she probably did not know what he was even testing her for.

I suppose, ptsd would account for the fogginess and flat affect because it would still be a traumatic event. It wouldn't account for the premeditation. I'll try and give an example as it relates to me. About 5 years ago I took a drug overdose. I was taken to the hospital, they had me stabilized and then a day or two later my liver enzymes spiked and they had to transfer me to another hospital. I wasn't drugged, I was conscious, aware of what was taking place in the moment. It was still stressful in the sense, the need to transfer me was out-of-the blue and came as a shock, and afterwards my whole timeline of events didn't correspond with what actually took place at this other hospital. I either didn't remember or the things I did remember didn't occur where I thought they had. If I was to be questioned about it I either wouldn't remember and/or the "real" timeline would be based on what others had told me and NOT what I thought was real. I would imagine there would be hesitation with my answers, because I'd have to try and remember the "real" sequence of events as I was told rather than relying on what I thought was "real". I'm not saying I had ptsd or that she has ptsd it's to give an example of how the mind works in stressful/intense situations. Even if her act of violence was premeditated it doesn't change the intensity of the emotions during and afterwards. To be clear I'm not excusing her behavior..

The problem in trying to diagnose mental illness is overlapping symptoms. A person cuts, well that could be applicable to a personality disorder, depression, anxiety and probably more. She has a flat affect it could be ptsd, could be depression, might be something else. That's why whatever the mental illness is it has to be looked at as a whole and not just one or two symptoms, and they have to be applied in the correct context of the illness. This is why it's relevant that the doctor has seen her on more than one occasion. He's seen her several times which allows him to form an opinion which his testing supports.

 

[SMK]

I haven't posted on this case yet (unlike the CA trial, fat lot of good my opinions made in the end!) because JA has been so hard to understand; I mean, you can't use normal thought processes to form opinions as you would with the everyday people you observe. This girl is, imo, lacking a lot of human traits that we normally expect to see in others, to whatever degree. She is completely unaware of how others are repelled by her or at least avoid having to be anywhere near her. I agree with Sherazhad that JA never developed a fully formed identity. From the time she dropped out of hs to live with some dude, she never attempted to learn anything on her own. No GED I think, no tech school, no real career path except waiting tables which she had to learn as a kid. It seems she paid to join PPL on a whim, and then hooked up with TA from the first and just tried to follow him around. She wasn't trying to prove herself in the job; I think she would have left PPL in a short time if she hadn't met TA- it must have taken some time before TA realized she wasn't doing jacksquat and heard his superiors dismiss her. Yet he lets her follow him all over and she runs up her credit cards to pay her way, risking that TA would soon rescue her somehow. Very risky and strange, because TA wasn't splurging on her. I loved crimesnooper's comments about TA. He was no saint. He treated her badly because she let him. It is very boring in the long run to date someone who worships you and lets you do anything- it compels a lot of people to get mean and it leads to behaviors/words that are downright cruel. It's making someone choose to leave you without admitting you made them suffer because they disgust you. TA only needed JA for sex, but he was soooooo immature for his age- it was like he was a 14-yr-old boy watching *advertiser censored* for the first time, or getting his first bj. TA couldn't control himself, it was like he had to try every fantasy before his luck ran out. All that anal, eew! Most guys don't start out w/that! He spoke to JA like it was a 900 number and as she just giggled he got more and more vulgar and rough. This wasn't a real couple having fun with ropes or dominance; this was just TA doing whatever he wanted on a robotic "3-hole wonder." WHAT a disgusting and degrading term to call a woman. "You will be my personal *advertiser censored*," whatever. TA was now living in a fantasy *advertiser censored* movie. Like giving an alcoholic a truckload of booze. Too bad he had to hide his issues, because someone could have reined him in; I'll bet the LDS has a place for "cures." He probably would have married a suitable Mormon girl within a year and started a family. Most likely he would have pervy moments from time to time, but hey, that describes most people I know, lol. And then he lets her in one more time not realizing that he had no idea who was coming in his door. Poor Travis. He didn't deserve this, he had a lot of growing up to do. The right woman probably would teach him how to treat her; he needed someone to call him on his BS, like we all do. JA is a horrible, dangerous person.

Yours is a really excellent, excellent analysis and I agree with it all, for the most part. The only thing I would add is that while of course JA had NO cause to brutally murder TA, and that TA is of course the VICTIM of a brutal crime, I do feel that there is an aspect wherein JA was a troubled, desperate child in a woman's body, and TA used her as if she were a lowclass paid prostitute---which he had brains enough to know she wasn't.

Not trying to place blame on TA, but isn't there something ugly about using a sick person? Using their desperation? Why couldn't he have just watched *advertiser censored*, paid a prostitute, gotten it out of his system with no emotional strings attached, and then moved on and settled down. Am I the only one who finds HIS behavior deeply, deeply disturbing? Would appreciate any and all feedback.....:waitasec:

 

[SMK]

That's one way to look at it but I can't help thinking that, as she described herself on the stand, she'd be every man's dream (not really every man but you know what I mean).

The concept of a woman corrupting a man is new to me. I'm sure it happens but is it really all that common? Usually it's the other way around.

I'm having a problem with the level in which Travis participated in what I label diviant sex acts. Being conservative and wanting the love part of a union to speak louder than the raw sex part, that colors how I view the situation. Now if the love is there and a man has a woman like what Jodi was able to be - that's some men's ultimate dream. The lack of love is the problem as Jodi craved that element of love and wanted adoration that, after a time, he wouldn't give. When he began to put her down EVEN THOUGH HE WAS THE SAME AS HER she flipped and basically said 'I'll show you'. Obviously she's mental in some way but she's also a woman scorned and possibly felt hurt to her core being.

Men should be careful how they treat women too because, as we are seeing, women can become as violent as men have been known to be.

When Travis rejected Jodi based on the idea that SHE WAS BAD/EVIL, she became enraged. The texts show that he authored a lot of the perversity that took place within their relationship. :twocents: Can anyone relate to having to be kept a secret? I know that would hurt me (but I'd move on and turn it inward).
He was a hypocrite and, I think, took the shame of his own choices out on Jodi. Jodi doesn't seem to have shame about their behavior but she won't own his either. Nobody made him do the things he did - his shame belonged to him. :twocents:

The above is my take on what led to the crime, not written to justify it.

Your thoughts echo my own. Above, I just posted asking if anyone felt TAs own behavior to be deeply disturbing, and I just came across this post which responds to my question. thanks.

 

[SMK]

My preliminary take on Jodi Arias

Jodi is very intelligent in some ways. She had rather low level work as a waitress which barely paid the bills. She was looking to better herself economically and social status wise. So she traveled to the Pre-Paid Legal opportunity meeting. She met Travis Alexander there. She was almost instantly attracted to him. He was charismatic, upwardly mobile and potentially a good earner. He seemed the ideal man, partner, husband she wanted and needed. He offered economic stability, an exciting life with a man she admired and wanted to be with. She over-idealized Travis. She wanted desperately to hitch her wagon to Travis rising Star. Travis was attracted to Jodi too. She must have been over the moon with happiness and excitement. She wanted to be the perfect girl friend for Travis. Therefore, she did only what HE wanted, pretending that's what she wanted. She even went so far as to convert to Mormonism. Her sex life with Travis was so exciting for both of them. But Jodi thought that their sex life was going to cement her to Travis for possibly marriage and permanence. She didn't realize that their sex life (a serious sin in Mormonism) would end up costing her Travis, who would never marry a "bad" girl like her. When she finally realized the truth, that Travis had no intention of ever marrying her, she felt used, abused and tossed on the trash heap of Travis life.

Her revenge on Travis was sex one last time, then turn the tables on him, and murder him.

Absolutely. And as evil and inexcusable as her crime was, his behavior - although not illegal - did violate higher morality. Did not Jesus and his apostles say that hating one's brother makes one a murderer (in the spiritual sense)?

As obnoxious , cold, and self-serving as BPD and Narcissists come across, they are often - and I know this from family experience- empty, terrified people who put up a huge facade to cover it up, to keep back the tsunami wave of fear that threatens them.

I imagine JA must have been TERRIFIED, not only of losing the man she loved , but of realizing that her "gift" (of special , kinky sex - perhaps the ONLY thing she actually felt confident of???) was being thrown back in her face. A sexually driven woman such as she was and with that airy, little-girl quality is often a red flag for someone who was seriously messed with -- either physically or mentally, it doesn't matter - by adults in childhood. She must have snapped.

How do we know she wasn't molested as a child? The family member I know who is very "Jodi-like" (and "Casey Anthony-like") was.....

 

[SMK]

First off, i find it quite amusing that whenever someone kills another, when ever someone commits a crime, acts different, whatever the case. everyone thinks they have mental disorder. is it not possible that jodi and others in fact do not have disorders? after all, since she underwent a psychological evaluation, why is it not brought up in trial? neither by the defense, or the proscution. There has to be a reason for this, either her evaluation has part that work against the prosecution and parts work against her defense, or there is nothing really notable about her evaluation at all.

just because someone is capable of lying very well, is able to manipulate others, or to commit heinous acts does not mean whatsoever that they have any mental condition at all. In fact if i was to analyze anyone who posts on this forum, i bet i could come to the conclusion that you all have mental disorders. The fact is, with every disorder, absolutely everyone has those personality traits of those you consider to have such a disorder, even those you consider normal. So i completely disregard pretty much every comment in here that suggests something like, ohh she must have BPD, oh she is narcissist etc. because the fact is, we all have those traits, some more then others but more often then not, it is a learned aspect of their life.

i could grow up in a poor family, have 10 brothers and sisters. my parents might work constantly to put food on the table so there is not much time for cleaning. basically i could live in a pig sty from a very young age. when i am an adult, do you think i know any different? no because this was my life for many years, as a adult my place might be just as much of a pig sty as when i lived with my parents, it is a learned habit, a familiar enviroment. Some people might grow to hate that part of their life and be able to change it and live clean etc. but for most, they will just live how they know to live. If i could make a comparison, i could grow up, have a decent family but even they have some issues, nice home but am always beat up on by my siblings etc when i go to school i get teased, bullied, never had friends, am constantly in fights etc. by the time i am an adult, i am sure you could imagine that i would not have much social skills because i did not learn them, i would have a different way of thinking, because i did not learn off my peers how to be like everyone else and fit in, i could be sad, angry wondering why i deserved to be treated like this. later in life i could get into a relationship, but because i do not think, talk, act like every other person out there. i will grow to be different to others. my relationship would probably not be stable ( for argument purposes) i would be here wanting to be loved, deserved to be loved i might of found the person i love beyond anyone else, they are all that matters to me ( this is not obsession etc) i could give them my all, and if they used me, they treated me like crap half the time, i was the persons little secret. and as people do in relationships they fight, it gets worse and worse over time usually. the old arguments of few words turn into sparring matches, frustrations build up , it can get physical very quickly and easily. even the most mild and meek person could come to blows in this manner.

now, if i was in that situation, you have been used, abused and looked down upon most of your life, then the one person you love, the one person you gave your everything too, uses you, lies to you, abuses you etc.. eventually it will tip you over the edge.

i don't believe jodi's testimony, i believe she is lying. but this does not mean she has any disorder, it does not mean she is a wack job etc. you have to realise, her life is on the line.. who wouldn't lie to save their own life? as human beings, it is hard wired into out DNA, into every part of our being to survive... if someone tries to kill you, you can get great strength to defend yourself because you are trying to survive, you could kill, you could even eat another human, because you are trying to survive.

i think it is very possible, extremely like that she had this idea in her mind to kill travis, in her mind, her screwed her over, the one person who really meant something to her, used her for sex. she felt like his prostitute. what's the old saying " wam bam thank you maam"? this all she was to travis, well, thats what she felt. and when you are in a relationship, emotionally connected to someone else, how often do you hear people make the statements " when you're in it, its hard to see" or something like this? when your in a relationship with someone, or close to them etc, their actions, words etc impact on us. you could think one way about something while your with them, but months later with no contact, you might think hey.. what the hell, why would i think like this? seems a bit crazy. everyone would of experienced this at some point in their life, probably throughout their entire lives. when you are in a situation you often do not have the luxury to take a step back and think rationally.... it is extremely hard to do when you're emotionally involved, even if you dont feel emotional at the time.. your judgement is clouded, think of it as a form of rose color glasses.

anyway, back to jodi.. i would bet my last dollar that to this very day, she feels somewhat justified with what she did, although i do believe she is probably tormented inside because of it. this in itselt can cause you to lack emotional and especially be able to show it. this could explain her actions on the stand. she is expected to be emotional, but what if she blocks it out.. if she doesnt cry she is cold blooded, if she cries you think she is putting it on?

i am not defending her actions, although i do believe she felt somewhat justified, he paid the price for screwing her over.

a lot of people think she told no truth at all, i believe there is truth in every story. liars twist the truth for their own agenda, and when facing the death penalty, wouldn't you?.

i compare what she says now, to what she says in her previous interviews, especially the one when she talks about the intruders, as opposed to what she has said recently. It is very very difficult to lie, to make up stories and maintain that lie a long time. HOWEVER, it is not hard at all to twist a few truths and keep the main part the same as what happened in reality. this is what jodi is doing, only a few aspects of her story have changed from the intruder story, to what she says now. meaning, a lot of what she is saying, is the truth, she just changed certain parts so she does not look as bad, or is not incriminating herself in some way ( and i am aware she admitted to killing TA). the basic points of the story are the same in both of them, how TA was shot first, she fell to the ground beside bath tub and bumped her head, TA was on all fours next to her screaming in pain ( and it is very possible he did say *advertiser censored**** kill you B***, and i would too if someone shot me in the face). she said in current testimony that he was sorta over her, while she on the floor , and it could be perceived this way as he is right next to her on all floors... she said she got up and ran to the closet etc.

you have to look at this and know that what she has said is technically correct.. this is what happened. perhaps the roles were reversed in some situations, perhaps they weren't.

i believe, she was taking photos of TA in the shower, when he was sitting down in the shower i think they argued and she had a gun, as he got up he prob lunged at her, she fired hitting him in the brow etc, as he slammed into her (breaking her finger) and knocking her to the ground where she hits her head, he started screaming in pain, saying *advertiser censored*** kill you B***, and grabs on her clothes while she on her back, she gets up and runs thinking TA is after her ( which is why he took a long time getting there according to her) she runs into room where knife is, grabs it, runs into the closet and thru the other door leading into the bathroom. by this time travis is still in the bathroom , probably moved over near the sink, where she stabs him in the stomach, which is where he got his defensive wounds, he starts moving as quick as he can into the hall, while she chases after him stabbing him repeatedly in the back until he is down, she slices his throat, rolls him over and stabs him some more times in the chest and lower throat.

this is something she would NOT want jurors to know, instant guilty verdict, but it fits in more with the crime scene and forensic analysis, while fitting also in with the stories she has told now, and previously.

it is not about believing her no more, or whether she is lying, it is about finding the common ground of her stories and weighing it up with evidence from the scene of the crime.


thats my 2 cents anyway

Oh, I see. What I meant is that it is offensive though (not you). Because really, what we always hear (and many times the reason men, or women, say they cheat) is because their main person - the one they can take home to mom - had become boring or same old, same old.

In this case, the way it comes off to me, is that JA isn't ashamed of her sexuality but that TA claimed to be ashamed of his behavior.:waitasec: Eventually he put JA down because of her part in their consensual activities, not only privately but publically too. I think that's when JA became livid, resentful and vengeful toward TA because she knew the behavior he was capable of too. Why should she be the only one with the bad reputation? If what I say is true, she really did feel he had betrayed her at the deepest level and that, he himself was a fraud; now, she is the one outted as a 'freak' and cast out of his fold. TA's religious pursuits had something to do with his trouble of reconciling his own behavior with his church rules. JA was simply a 'seeker' as we say in the Christian world; she was willing to convert for him.

One of TA's friends said in an interview, 'you can tell them by their fruits'. He stated this in a negative way regarding JA. In other words, she didn't possess the good or right fruit to live up to TA's expectations. Did she ever claim too? Anybody else have a problem with the fairness of TA's friend's remark? JA was TA's back door girl in more ways than one. Ya, I'd be insulted if I were her.

I am working my way through this thread, as I have just become interested in the JA case (too busy before) and wanted to say "Amen" to these 2 posts.....at least I know I am not alone in my thinking....

 

[SMK]

While I don't find the murder amusing, I did find what was taking place between her and the prosecutor to be highly amusing. My sense is she was ****ing around with him and he knew what she was doing. Rather than fall into the trap of becoming argumentative/combative with her he rolled with the flow.

It's like the prosecutor wants her to go right, and she wants to go left. Rather than fight her by trying to get her to go right, he chooses to go left with her and do it her way and by doing that he defeats what she is trying to accomplish.

:clap::clap::clap: You are right on target with this.

 

[SMK]

I agree that Jodi butchered Travis savagely.
The difficulty I have with labelling her with any kind of PD (as yet), is because she has maintained reasonably long term relationships, and has no record of prior offending.
My own take at the moment is that these were two very damaged people, both of them with narcissistic wounding. It attracted them to each other, (the amazing 'Attraction Theory' lol), but seriously it is well recognised in therapy that we attract people based on unfinished business from our childhood.
The problems start when the 'business' can't be finished because the person we choose is likely to perpetrate the same wounding we experienced in childhood.
So for Travis, Jodi likely represented one of his parental figures, we know they were both drug addicted, and similar to any type of addiction (such as sexual addiction for instance). Any 'addiction' for Travis is not going to sit well.
Ultimately, their relationship was doomed to fail, because neither of them got their simmering childhood needs met. Of course I am speculating here, because we appear to know very little about Jodi's childhood, but it might suggest a sexual abuse past IDK...
What I see in Jodi, is a deep narcissistic wound and dissociation from reality, maybe PTSD or Complex PTSD regarding childhood abuse?
Complex PTSD can mimic BPD.
Travis wasn't responsible for the initial wounding but he certainly didn't help matters much. Her perceptions of his 'abuse' might be altered who knows? She was certainly insulted and rejected by him and his friends, and continues to be.
They both seem to have dealt with their baggage in different ways, internalising and externalising.
I'm just putting another scenario out there - to me they both look like the opposites of the wounded narcissistic coin.
Prepared to be dissuaded, but don't throw things at me please.
(Ducking for cover)

Interesting aspect you bring up---quite illuminating. Thank you for that post!

 

[SMK]

This is true, just not, um, um, psychopaths.

Sometimes the creative are in fact psychopaths. Lord Byron was clearly one. Tennessee Williams came close. Remember, "psychopath" is after all just a term used to describe certain extreme behaviors---in the end, we are only human - I would say JA has done a vile action , an evil action. But what she IS, is murky, as it is with us all. Behavior is all we have to go on, in the end.

 

[Tiger09]

JA wishes she were any where near the same class as Lord Byron or the late great Tennesee Williams. She does have an affinity for mendacity, though.

 

[SMK]

JA wishes she were any where near the same class as Lord Byron or the late great Tennesee Williams. She does have an affinity for mendacity, though.

Ha- very true.

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

Yours is a really excellent, excellent analysis and I agree with it all, for the most part. The only thing I would add is that while of course JA had NO cause to brutally murder TA, and that TA is of course the VICTIM of a brutal crime, I do feel that there is an aspect wherein JA was a troubled, desperate child in a woman's body, and TA used her as if she were a lowclass paid prostitute---which he had brains enough to know she wasn't.

Not trying to place blame on TA, but isn't there something ugly about using a sick person? Using their desperation? Why couldn't he have just watched *advertiser censored*, paid a prostitute, gotten it out of his system with no emotional strings attached, and then moved on and settled down. Am I the only one who finds HIS behavior deeply, deeply disturbing? Would appreciate any and all feedback.....:waitasec:

I am so in agreement with this. I would like to add that it's interesting that TA had the reputation of being the "30 year old Virgin" to his friends when he met JA. But he must have found out that Jodi was living with a former lover in a house they bought together; and she had a lot of sexual experience. I think this is the only reason he "hooked up" with her. But she fell in love with Travis while he used her as his sex toy. He even had sex with her on the day he baptized her! It did indeed turn into a "fatal attraction" for both of them. It cost Travis his life; and she may get the death penalty. This is a sad tale that we can all learn from.

 

[SMK]

I am so in agreement with this. I would like to add that it's interesting that TA had the reputation of being the "30 year old Virgin" to his friends when he met JA. But he must have found out that Jodi was living with a former lover in a house they bought together; and she had a lot of sexual experience. I think this is the only reason he "hooked up" with her. But she fell in love with Travis while he used her as his sex toy. He even had sex with her on the day he baptized her! It did indeed turn into a "fatal attraction" for both of them. It cost Travis his life; and she may get the death penalty. This is a sad tale that we can all learn from.

Thanks for this - and yes, I think what I find most troubling about TA's behavior is that he did not seem to grasp that toying with another human being is both wrong and dangerous. He must have known at some point that this girl was not just "wild for sex", but was in love with him. The fact that he continued on while also wanting to create a clean, Mormon persona with another "more suitable" woman shows just how crooked his path really was. Does not speak well of Mormonism either, which probably fed into this split.....

 

[Sherazhad]

Travis's friends have said that when he first met Jodi he was very keen on her & they even mentioned they thought they would marry, so I don't believe his intention was to use Jodi. I think Jodi is the sort of person who comes across at 1st as a wonderful person, but the more you get to know them the facade slips & you realise there's something not right about them. I think he just went off her.
I believe Travis did try to end things with her, but she would not take no for an answer. Was he weak & maybe unkind at still taking what she was offering? Yes, but I believe he was honest & she knew he was not serious about her. A disturbed mind like Jodi's is a bomb waiting to explode & we can't blame Travis for doing what a high percentage of men would do. Remember too that we only have her word that they had sex on the day of the baptism & I don't believe her. He might not be the perfect Morman, but I believe he was a good man.

 

[SMK]

Just a quick question, and as I said I am coming late to this case and am trying to work through many threads , so apologies if this has already been addressed:

Is the general consensus about that last picture of TA is that he knew he was about to be attacked? It certainly is a compelling pic and looks that way to me.