Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[zaza]

I really really doubt this. All accounts it was Travis who trying to get her out of his life or keep her at a distance. He was happy to have her out of Mesa and never once went out of his way to visit her. His angry texts to her are telling. He told his friend if he ever ends up dead it was Jodi. I believe he had sex with her that day to appease her so she would move on. If someone is fatally attracted to someone, they don't have sex with them and then kick them out. They HOLD ON TO that person. Travis never did that. All the psychopathic stalking behaviors were on her part. I know on some level he must have been addicted to her (to the sex, more than anything. It was lust) but I am not getting crazy stalker vibes from him. He wanted her to go away.

By the time Jodi met Travis, she was a masterful manipulator. I doubt Travis ever met anyone like her before and was easily reeled in by her because he was sexually immature. She seduced him, I have no doubt, because that's her means to getting attention, which she has openly admitted and that is probably one of the truer statements she's made, and she has learned well that she can control through sex. There are a lot of women who use sex for power, control and getting what they want. Most of them are labeled gold diggers and they aren't killers.
I agree that this was a fatal attraction since there was no way for Travis to know that he was dealing with a ticking time bomb. Women like Jodi who don't have healthy relationship skills and experience lots of rejection are ticking time bombs. They are emotionally deficient, lack coping skills, and instead use control tactics to manipulate everyone in their environment. They can't sustain a reciprocal or, give and take relationship. They have to be in control because its the only way they can substantiate where they stand within any relationship since they cant trust. When they are rejected or when their control tactics fail rage takes hold and they even lose control of themselves. They turn the whole experience around in their heads, believing that the rejector "tricked" them, "used" them, "disrespected" them, "abused" them, but the fact is they set the whole thing up and the only thing the rejector is guilty of is not going along with their plan. Travis acted just like most men within our society, which makes him a sap and a disappointment regarding his views of women perhaps. Whether you think his "use" of Jodi was bad or unethical, it certainly didn't warrant his death by her.

 

[SMK]

I think all of that would make sense if Jodi were a normal, be it flawed individual. But she was not. She was and is a sociopath. She is not capable of love but very capable of obsession. I agree and acknowledge that he led her on in some ways. On one hand he was rejecting her, being rude to her, and not acknowledging her to his friends. But what sociopaths do is coyly and subtly weasel their way back into your life and heart by playing on your emotions and innate goodness. She is a master manipulator. People assume he was an *advertiser censored* to her then would call her for sex. Again, I doubt this. She would come around with a sob story (having to sleep in Uhaul), apologize to him for her ways, act remorseful and play on his emotions that he felt for her. She flaunted sex in front of him, knowing it was his weakness. If he truly wanted her and controlled her like people want to believe, he would never have let her move back to Yreka. He would have given her money for her rent. He would have let her crash at his house. He let her go without a fight. That is someone who is over someone and probably relieved the object of his temptation is gone. I think he did try to help her in little ways, but when he realized she was trouble who was never actually going to help herself and would play on his kindness to get what she needed out of him, he gave up on her.

To try to paint their relationship in any other way is ignoring the MO of sociopaths. Usually when they are done with someone, they move on to another victim without a care. But when they are not done with someone and are rejected by that person, that's when the rage begins.

OK, this balances out my own view. But do you think in her own twisted way, she was in love with him? Or did she merely want to marry him for the status and the relative luxury? If the former, she is twisted albeit human. If the latter, she is nothing but a prostitute. :furious:

 

[Gecko100]

Aren't the e-mails just a smidgen of the hundreds that went between them, or maybe the only ones indicative of issues? I would like to read the others just to get a sense of them, but they might be boring and highly sexualised which will just irritate me.

Thank-you all for your commiserations, we certainly know when we have been there!!
I actually became a narcissistic magnet at one point, I thought I had 'pick me' writ large on my head, but like BritsKate I can sniff them at 50 paces, otherwise they would eat me for dinner.
I agree that she is probably a mix of cluster B, and also wonder why you see ASPD and I see narcissism, I know they are co-morbid, but I wonder if our own experiences make us sniff one more than the other.
Wondering is part of my obsessive curiosity about the world, and I blame myself entirely!

 

[Gecko100]

OK, this balances out my own view. But do you think in her own twisted way, she was in love with him? Or did she merely want to marry him for the status and the relative luxury? If the former, she is twisted albeit human. If the latter, she is nothing but a prostitute. :furious:

Can ASPD's love?
They can own, control and torture, but they can only mimic love or their idealised version of what it might consist of, which is likely an idea borrowed from someone else or a movie.
Travis had a major narcissistic wound too. His parents did not meet his needs at crucial points very early in his development. Some narcissists don't kill, but they still have the pent up rage and diffuse 'normal' boundaries.
The opposites, 'the wounded healer' are the high empathy 'giving' types', again with blurred boundaries which can actually harm the giver. The anger is turned towards self and self blame.
Gggrr these people!! 4 in a room of a hundred people will have ASPD!!
That is ratio is higher than some of our most deadliest diseases, just as damaging, and even fatal. And no known cure, except taking special care of the little ones.
Although the nature/nurture debate is not resolved, a scientist investigating ASPD via brain scans recently discovered that, not only was he related to Lizzie Borden he was also hard wired for psychopathology. A decent upbringing led him on a completely different path doing good. A nice outcome.
I wish there were special education classes offered to adults and older children on psychological self defence.
Children who are vulnerable are identifiable at a very early age, interventions at early points in development can change outcomes, before they become bullies etc. But it relies on all adults taking responsibility for the safety of children.
Ooops! rant over, item discarded, trash emptied and window closed!! haha

 

[SMK]

Can ASPD's love?
They can own, control and torture, but they can only mimic love or their idealised version of what it might consist of, which is likely an idea borrowed from someone else or a movie.(I believe with the right care they could love truly in their own way. SMK)
Travis had a major narcissistic wound too. His parents did not meet his needs at crucial points very early in his development. Some narcissists don't kill, but they still have the pent up rage and diffuse 'normal' boundaries.
The opposites, 'the wounded healer' are the high empathy 'giving' types', again with blurred boundaries which can actually harm the giver. The anger is turned towards self and self blame.
Gggrr these people!! 4 in a room of a hundred people will have ASPD!!
That is ratio is higher than some of our most deadliest diseases, just as damaging, and even fatal. And no known cure, except taking special care of the little ones.

... Although the nature/nurture debate is not resolved, a scientist investigating ASPD via brain scans recently discovered that, not only was he related to Lizzie Borden he was also hard wired for psychopathology. A decent upbringing led him on a completely different path doing good. A nice outcome.
I wish there were special education classes offered to adults and older children on psychological self defence.
Children who are vulnerable are identifiable at a very early age, interventions at early points in development can change outcomes, before they become bullies etc. But it relies on all adults taking responsibility for the safety of children. haha

absolutely. Well, well said!!!

Especially the sections bolded above:

This is the key.

I for one cannot and will not believe that nature intended so many to wind up like Jodi or worse and causing such havoc.

I believe it is rather that these people are capable of the greatest evil and the greatest good---and if they are accommodated and treated as they ought to be in childhood, they will be not only equal to others but often superior to them. It is society which lags behind....

 

[BritsKate]

OK, this balances out my own view. But do you think in her own twisted way, she was in love with him? Or did she merely want to marry him for the status and the relative luxury? If the former, she is twisted albeit human. If the latter, she is nothing but a prostitute. :furious:

I wouldn't use the word love to describe what she 'felt'. Love implies compassion, empathy, and respect and psychopaths obviously are incapable of those. But I know what you mean...love is really the only way to describe it so non-psychopaths understand.

I don't subscribe to the emotion-less theory. I think psychopaths do have some limited emotion, very diluted compared to ours, and I consider differing shades of anger the only emotion on a par to how non-psychopaths feel almost every emotion.

I think Jodi felt she owned Travis. She was entitled to him because she'd made an investment in him. She'd moved, she'd changed religions, she'd morphed and attempted to make nice with his friends, and she introduced every freaky bedtime story she could to wrap him in further.

I don't believe it was as simple as money or status though. I think psychopaths are usually attracted to things they themselves aren't - in the idealize phase, they'll talk up all the wonderful traits of their significant other; in the devalue phase though they'll demean and criticize those same traits that once caught their attraction.

Travis was cocky but really very likable. He could make an entire room of strangers laugh in minutes. He opened his fridge, his home, and his heart to anyone who had need of it. He spurred his friends on to be great and do amazing things with their lives. He was charismatic, generous, trusting, respected, and deeply loved by a great number of people.

And I think Jodi wanted to be associated with someone like him so people would think better of her. I believe she saw Travis as an extension of the superiority she self-believed but wasn't getting recognized for. Being with Travis made Jodi look good - and that's what she liked most.

MOO

 

[Novice Seeker]

OK, this balances out my own view. But do you think in her own twisted way, she was in love with him? Or did she merely want to marry him for the status and the relative luxury? If the former, she is twisted albeit human. If the latter, she is nothing but a prostitute. :furious:

Sociopaths can't feel genuine emotions much less comprehend what love is and the feelings associated with love, compassion, respect and so on. No, I don't believe Jodi loved Travis nor Darryl, Matthew, Ryan and all the others.

 

[MeeBee]

OK, this balances out my own view. But do you think in her own twisted way, she was in love with him? Or did she merely want to marry him for the status and the relative luxury? If the former, she is twisted albeit human. If the latter, she is nothing but a prostitute. :furious:

The simple answer is no, she did not love him because sociopaths are incapable of love. Now, they will tell you they are, but what the go on to describe to you will not sound anything like love as non disordered people will understand it. The want to own that person. That want to control them. They want what they have and they don't want to have to work very hard for it. Jodi probably believed she loved Travis, but in a sick and unhealthy way, if anything.

Sociopath's seek out victims, and the most vulnerable are the naive and the innately kind. Travis was relatively romantically naive for a man his age and was kind and giving to a fault. I am not just saying that. His friends have told stories of his selflessness. He had money. A big nice house. He traveled a lot to amazing places. He was affluent and well liked. Jodi found her next target. If she could get him to love her, she could have what he has without ever having to work for it. And I agree with whoever said it's not as simple as just wanting their stuff (BritsKate). Jodi is a narcissist as well. She desires the love and admiration of everyone and here was a man who had that. Everyone loved Travis. So Jodi clinged to that, delusionally imagining that for herself. She wanted that too.

I do think that Travis cared for Jodi at one point and probably continued to care for her after they broke up. He broke up with her because one or two things or both happened: (1)she began to show her true self and (2)he realized they did not actually share the same values. In Christianity, they call it "equally yoked." Basically, being on the same wave length in their beliefs and morals. Jodi thought she could control him with sex, what this actually ended up doing is pushing him away. He enjoyed it and struggled with it, but realized in the end this was not the girl he would marry because she had already shown that the Mormon code was that important to her. He was looking for a different kind of girl. A bit hypocritical? Maybe. But that's religion for you.

So he breaks up with her and what does she do? She moves to his city. The is escalation of stalking behavior. This is where I find it hard to relate to the "Travis controlled Jodi" people. SHE moved closer to HIM and proceeded to push and inject herself into his life where she wasn't invited. This was her attempt to control him! If she had never moved, Travis would never have had sex with her after the break up. Yet it was Travis controlling Jodi for sex? That is not computing. And after the move it was hard to get out of her web. Between his own moral struggle, and the temptation of Jodi being just around the corner, Travis was having a hard time shake this part of his life.

I think people are finding it hard to believe that a man could possible be controlled by a sociopathic woman. Like I said, they are master manipulators. They find your weakness and prey on it relentlessly. I understand there is a level of responsibility in some of Travis' actions, but I can't imagine that if it had been the other way around people would be so quick to blame the victim and sympathize with the perpetrator. It's this social stigma that keeps so many women off death row when the probably deserve it. I hope that the statement that is made in this trial, when/if the guilty verdict is handed down, is that both men and women can be controlled and deceived by another, and that no one deserves it, no matter what their faults may be.

 

[BritsKate]

Yes, on a couple of points. True he had no stalker thing going on. But I think it shocked him that JA would get into his emails, bother Lisa, etc. because he repressed the knowledge that she was in love with her, and he had used her and partly led her on.

Had JA played her hand differently, I do not think he would have given her up.

His ego was strong, his allegiance to Mormon codes, paper thin.

He was not a passive victim. He helped create the very situation he did not want.

Doesn't that kinda negate the power of psychopathy altogether though? Anyone, really, can fall prey to a psychopath and from that moment on it's a very complex spider web of psychological abuse and manipulation strategically engineered to keep the victim in the relationship.

I see this a lot in the main thread too and really can only liken it to domestic violence. Very often an abuse victim has to defend her or himself for having stayed in the relationship to be abused in the first place - but doing just that is part of the abuse cycle itself. People stay for all sorts of reasons but ultimately, the bottom line is that were it not for the abuse they'd likely be strong enough to leave, have resources to leave, not be afraid of losing custody, not be embarrassed or ashamed, etc.

It took me 10 years to realize my ex was probably a psychopath - and that was after his diagnosis for comorbid PD. Those ten years were hell on earth for me...abuse unfolded that very nearly destroyed me. But, instead of leaving permanently, I'd fall for the honeymoon phase of him promising to never abuse me again. In reality, hindsight, and a whole lot of therapy I've come to the conclusion that I kept superimposing my very human-like emotions onto him. I erroneously believed because I loved him logic would dictate he loved me too - and didn't really want to hurt me.

And just so people don't take this the wrong way - I do not for a moment believe abuse victims are sanctified angels who never do anything wrong. Although....:angel:. I just think they shouldn't be judged for their actions or decisions while still in, or immediately coming out of, an abusive relationship. It isn't likened to coming out of the fog for nothing. (And not a Jodiesque fog!)

JMO

 

[SMK]

I wouldn't use the word love to describe what she 'felt'. Love implies compassion, empathy, and respect and psychopaths obviously are incapable of those. But I know what you mean...love is really the only way to describe it so non-psychopaths understand.

I don't subscribe to the emotion-less theory. I think psychopaths do have some limited emotion, very diluted compared to ours, and I consider differing shades of anger the only emotion on a par to how non-psychopaths feel almost every emotion.

I think Jodi felt she owned Travis. She was entitled to him because she'd made an investment in him. She'd moved, she'd changed religions, she'd morphed and attempted to make nice with his friends, and she introduced every freaky bedtime story she could to wrap him in further.

I don't believe it was as simple as money or status though. I think psychopaths are usually attracted to things they themselves aren't - in the idealize phase, they'll talk up all the wonderful traits of their significant other; in the devalue phase though they'll demean and criticize those same traits that once caught their attraction.

Travis was cocky but really very likable. He could make an entire room of strangers laugh in minutes. He opened his fridge, his home, and his heart to anyone who had need of it. He spurred his friends on to be great and do amazing things with their lives. He was charismatic, generous, trusting, respected, and deeply loved by a great number of people.

And I think Jodi wanted to be associated with someone like him so people would think better of her. I believe she saw Travis as an extension of the superiority she self-believed but wasn't getting recognized for. Being with Travis made Jodi look good - and that's what she liked most.

MOO

Very well stated. It had occurred to me that Travis was perhaps the self she wanted to be (truly charming, really liked by all, really able to accomplish things) but could not access. This might also account for the rage: She had created (in her mind) an extension of herself: Now he was acting independent and going his own way, leaving her in a void.

 

[SMK]

The simple answer is no, she did not love him because sociopaths are incapable of love. Now, they will tell you they are, but what the go on to describe to you will not sound anything like love as non disordered people will understand it. The want to own that person. That want to control them. They want what they have and they don't want to have to work very hard for it. Jodi probably believed she loved Travis, but in a sick and unhealthy way, if anything.

Sociopath's seek out victims, and the most vulnerable are the naive and the innately kind. Travis was relatively romantically naive for a man his age and was kind and giving to a fault. I am not just saying that. His friends have told stories of his selflessness. He had money. A big nice house. He traveled a lot to amazing places. He was affluent and well liked. Jodi found her next target. If she could get him to love her, she could have what he has without ever having to work for it. And I agree with whoever said it's not as simple as just wanting their stuff (BritsKate). Jodi is a narcissist as well. She desires the love and admiration of everyone and here was a man who had that. Everyone loved Travis. So Jodi clinged to that, delusionally imagining that for herself. She wanted that too.

I do think that Travis cared for Jodi at one point and probably continued to care for her after they broke up. He broke up with her because one or two things or both happened: (1)she began to show her true self and (2)he realized they did not actually share the same values. In Christianity, they call it "equally yoked." Basically, being on the same wave length in their beliefs and morals. Jodi thought she could control him with sex, what this actually ended up doing is pushing him away. He enjoyed it and struggled with it, but realized in the end this was not the girl he would marry because she had already shown that the Mormon code was that important to her. He was looking for a different kind of girl. A bit hypocritical? Maybe. But that's religion for you.

So he breaks up with her and what does she do? She moves to his city. The is escalation of stalking behavior. This is where I find it hard to relate to the "Travis controlled Jodi" people. SHE moved closer to HIM and proceeded to push and inject herself into his life where she wasn't invited. This was her attempt to control him! If she had never moved, Travis would never have had sex with her after the break up. Yet it was Travis controlling Jodi for sex? That is not computing. And after the move it was hard to get out of her web. Between his own moral struggle, and the temptation of Jodi being just around the corner, Travis was having a hard time shake this part of his life.

I think people are finding it hard to believe that a man could possible be controlled by a sociopathic woman. Like I said, they are master manipulators. They find your weakness and prey on it relentlessly. I understand there is a level of responsibility in some of Travis' actions, but I can't imagine that if it had been the other way around people would be so quick to blame the victim and sympathize with the perpetrator. It's this social stigma that keeps so many women off death row when the probably deserve it. I hope that the statement that is made in this trial, when/if the guilty verdict is handed down, is that both men and women can be controlled and deceived by another, and that no one deserves it, no matter what their faults may be.

Absolutely, Travis was in a very real sense her victim, sexually and psychologically.

No, he did not deserve such a fate. And yes, this ought to be made clear by the courts. Women, when they are killed by men, are not then posthumously made to seem awful because the man had paid their bills, etc.

I do believe though they she must have been "in love" with him in the romantic sense: Even if such romantic feelings were grandiose, merely an extension of her own imagined "perfect self". Otherwise, she could always have set her sights on, say, a wealthy 50-something who would be absolutely thrilled to marry her, share his wealth, social life, travel.......A man old enough not to be able to get Lisas and Mimis and who had already had children who were now grown....

 

[BritsKate]

Absolutely, Travis was in a very real sense her victim, sexually and psychologically.

No, he did not deserve such a fate. And yes, this ought to be made clear by the courts. Women, when they are killed by men, are not then posthumously made to seem awful because the man had paid their bills, etc.

I do believe though they she must have been "in love" with him in the romantic sense: Even if such romantic feelings were grandiose, merely an extension of her own imagined "perfect self". Otherwise, she could always have set her sights on, say, a wealthy 50-something who would be absolutely thrilled to marry her, share his wealth, social life, travel.......A man old enough not to be able to get Lisas and Mimis and who had already had children who were now grown....

RBBM

I don't know how many IPV turned homicide cases you've followed but just two that come to mind in which the victim was further victimized for their actions or inaction - on this forum as well as in the courtroom - are Michelle Young and Nancy Cooper.

In nearly every DV homicide trial I've followed it's always suggested by some posters what the victim should have done differently - sometimes even regardless of police reports, restraining orders, relocation, etc. I think it may just be human nature to want to find a way to a different outcome. It's scary as hell to think of someone doing all the right things to get away from an abuser and still becoming a homicide victim. Yet it happens every day.

JMO

 

[ShadyLadySleuth]

Absolutely right on all counts, bravo to you for this post. :great:

You are the first besides yours truly:dance: to see that this was a fatal attraction on both sides. They were CODEPENDENTS and this can no longer be denied now that the sex phone call audio has come out.

He needed her as badly as she needed him - and if she had been a saner girl, and had the patience to wait it out, he likely would have married a Mormon virgin, had kids, gotten bored, and gone looking for Jodi again. But she had no long vision.

Thanks for your comments. I do see this as a tragic tale of fatal attraction on both parts. Travis is dead and Jodi may face the death penalty. The age-old human weakness of jealousy and revenge seems to have been played out again in their lives. Nobody wins in this one.

 

[shelley921]

If you watch Dr. Drew you will see that is not the case. He has not in any way defended her as an abuse victim, and, since I've watched the trial, no one on his show really has either. He has also said things along the lines of it was she who was abusing him. He talks often how scared he is of her and has said that anyone who may feel some sympathy for Jodi or has doubts about her guilt need to see the graphic autopsy photos to really grasp what she did to him and that it was just not self defense.

thanks for mentioning this! yes indeed dr drew has never defended jodi - he never said she was an abuse victim. he calls her a stalker with a lot of pathology! he calls jodi an abuser!
he says she is creepy and love addicted. he says she is extremely empty at the core--no sense of herself at the core. dr drew said before she killed travis she committed "interpersonal terrorism" on him!

 

[SMK]

Doesn't that kinda negate the power of psychopathy altogether though? Anyone, really, can fall prey to a psychopath and from that moment on it's a very complex spider web of psychological abuse and manipulation strategically engineered to keep the victim in the relationship.

I see this a lot in the main thread too and really can only liken it to domestic violence. Very often an abuse victim has to defend her or himself for having stayed in the relationship to be abused in the first place - but doing just that is part of the abuse cycle itself. People stay for all sorts of reasons but ultimately, the bottom line is that were it not for the abuse they'd likely be strong enough to leave, have resources to leave, not be afraid of losing custody, not be embarrassed or ashamed, etc.

It took me 10 years to realize my ex was probably a psychopath - and that was after his diagnosis for comorbid PD. Those ten years were hell on earth for me...abuse unfolded that very nearly destroyed me. But, instead of leaving permanently, I'd fall for the honeymoon phase of him promising to never abuse me again. In reality, hindsight, and a whole lot of therapy I've come to the conclusion that I kept superimposing my very human-like emotions onto him. I erroneously believed because I loved him logic would dictate he loved me too - and didn't really want to hurt me.

And just so people don't take this the wrong way - I do not for a moment believe abuse victims are sanctified angels who never do anything wrong. Although....:angel:. I just think they shouldn't be judged for their actions or decisions while still in, or immediately coming out of, an abusive relationship. It isn't likened to coming out of the fog for nothing. (And not a Jodiesque fog!)

JMO

How intense, and thank you for sharing: You know whereof you speak!

I guess the thing about Travis - and believe me, I feel deeply moved by his brutal murder, and from all I've seen, I find him generous,witty, strong-minded and very handsome: a truly sympathetic character -

but the thing with him was, he had a sort of unpaid prostitute in Jodi. And I think he would have been smarter to pay strangers. I guess because he was a Mormon and a leader, I expect miracles from him: I suppose most guys would prefer a friends-with-kinky-benefits arrangement to a paid stranger. Maybe it was easier to justify to himself (I am helping her work out her sexual feelings).

I guess I have been hard on him because I can't believe all he had overcome, all he had become, and he lets this thing take root.....:facepalm: Oy vey, Travis, where did we go wrong with ya? :facepalm:

 

[BritsKate]

How intense, and thank you for sharing: You know whereof you speak!

I guess the thing about Travis - and believe me, I feel deeply moved by his brutal murder, and from all I've seen, I find him generous,witty, strong-minded and very handsome: a truly sympathetic character -

but the thing with him was, he had a sort of unpaid prostitute in Jodi. And I think he would have been smarter to pay strangers. I guess because he was a Mormon and a leader, I expect miracles from him: I suppose most guys would prefer a friends-with-kinky-benefits arrangement to a paid stranger. Maybe it was easier to justify to himself (I am helping her work out her sexual feelings).

I guess I have been hard on him because I can't believe all he had overcome, all he had become, and he lets this thing take root.....:facepalm: Oy vey, Travis, where did we go wrong with ya? :facepalm:

But see I think that's the wrong question, imo. Instead of asking why Travis continued to have sex, see, or speak with her, I think the question should be 'How did Jodi manipulate Travis?' *Most* reasonable people would just leave a relationship that was hurting them, that made them feel dirty or question their own morality, or was driving them crazy. That he didn't means, to me, there's something a lot deeper than just wanting to stay in it for sex.

He did overcome a lot in his life. He did become a lot too - he became very trusting and genuinely wanted to believe the best in others, by most accounts - two traits that more than likely made him vulnerable to a psychopathic predator.

JMO

 

[SMK]

But see I think that's the wrong question, imo. Instead of asking why Travis continued to have sex, see, or speak with her, I think the question should be 'How did Jodi manipulate Travis?' *Most* reasonable people would just leave a relationship that was hurting them, that made them feel dirty or question their own morality, or was driving them crazy. That he didn't means, to me, there's something a lot deeper than just wanting to stay in it for sex.

He did overcome a lot in his life. He did become a lot too - he became very trusting and genuinely wanted to believe the best in others, by most accounts - two traits that more than likely made him vulnerable to a psychopathic predator.

JMO

Excellent point. I think Travis seemed so confident and happy that it is easy to forget his childhood and the inner scars and wounds he was carrying - it had to have played into his vulnerability with Jodi.

 

[deedee21]

Sociopaths can't feel genuine emotions much less comprehend what love is and the feelings associated with love, compassion, respect and so on. No, I don't believe Jodi loved Travis nor Darryl, Matthew, Ryan and all the others.

Shes not capable of loving smeone. She suffocates them.

 

[SMK]

I was trawling and found this by accident but thought it was interesting:

From, The Double Bind of Remorse and Redemption:

The most persuasive of Arias’ actions after killing Alexander, and the one that belies both the possibility of premeditation and of her lacking remorse is the hysterical and acutely distressed phone call she made to Gus Searcy, her sometime boss and confidante, in the middle of the night after she killed Alexander.

In it she communicated to Mr. Searcy that Alexander was dead, but was too incoherent and agitated for Searcy to ascertain anything other than that she was at her wits’ end. This is an event that the prosecution and the media have conveniently ignored, and Searcy’s testimony has been derided and thrown aside with contempt, no doubt because it is a strong disruptive factor in the theory of premeditation and one that forces us to entertain the feasibility of remorse. Had Arias premeditated a murder, she would not have followed up by revealing that she knew of Alexander’s death days before his body was discovered.

This, and the frantic distress with which she communicated the information to Searcy indicate that she was in great shock and regret about what had happened. Whatever she did afterwards in an instinctual striving for self-preservation does not cancel this first gut-response, nor invalidate the implications of what her true underlying sentiment might be.

http://babelbooth.com/2013/03/23/the-double-bind-of-remorse-and-of-redemption/

 

[BritsKate]

I was trawling and found this by accident but thought it was interesting:

From, The Double Bind of Remorse and Redemption:


http://babelbooth.com/2013/03/23/the-double-bind-of-remorse-and-of-redemption/

I don't believe psychopaths are anywhere capable anything resembling remorse but I guess you'd also have to first have believe Gus Searcy...whom I admittedly don't. I think he revealed his true intentions when he basically admitted on the stand he approached the defense only because the prosecutor didn't call him back. He told Chris Hughes he had information that could either help or hurt her.

I think he wanted in on this case and he wanted the national stage. He does have a book to promote, after all.

Here's another blog with a different POV:

Searcy is now enjoying his 15 minutes of fame. My first impression of him hasn't changed, he wants to get something out of this tragedy. He has used this brutal murder and it's now infamous defendant to further his own personal and business pursuits. I find it very odd that he never thought to check with other PPL people after Arias told him Alexander was dead, and he didn't come forward with any of this information until after Jodi Arias was arrested. He had to have known by then that she was involved. She called him 4 DAYS BEFORE HIS BODY WAS FOUND!!

http://mycrimetime.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/gus-searcy-says-arias-called-him-after.html

Personally too, I find the testimony of Darryl (ex-boyfriend); Dr. Samuels; and Gus Searcy all suspect as each displayed obvious sympathy towards the defendant making me believe strong the manipulation is. (In my not so good Yoda impression.)

The mistake that author makes, SMK, in my opinion is confusing psychopathy with humanity and all that it entails. Not every murderer is also psychopathic but for those who are it is about as close to evil as one gets - insomuch as there is no conscience, no empathy, and no remorse for their victims - at all.

And if you study Jodi's interrogations, interviews, and testimony you will see, over and over again, how the subject always turns back to how murdering him affects her.

JMO

ETA: Personal tidbit to illustrate the lack of remorse component in psychopathic criminals. As I've stated many times on the main thread, my ex is currently in prison for drugging and raping his 14 year old niece after I'd filed for divorce.

He first claimed it never happened. Then stated it did but she'd been coming on to him. Then claimed he'd never have done it had I not left. Then stated not only had he never done it but he'd also never admitted he had. Lastly, he plead guilty to having done it...but only to receive a reduced sentence.

He tore his entire family apart. His mother believes him but his sister, and mother of the victim, would like nothing more than to tear him apart with bare hands. Grandma and victim's relationship is exponentially damaged. And ex still proclaims his innocence, blaming everyone else, despite overwhelmingly damning evidence to the contrary. He goes on and on to anyone who will listen how his life is forever ruined as a result of her 'claims'. Uh huh. :furious: