ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 2

[AngelFish]

Could be they went to location 2 and she was shoved off a cliff on the East side of the Island, he then drove back to Nanki and made the call. No body, they were looking in the wrong spot and the sharks got to her. - Just a thought.

 

[annalia]

There's a handful of what I think are somewhat, well, naive ideas being tossed around here.

1. GVG was making *advertiser censored* for money. Ridiculous. No one, I repeat, no one is going to pay real money for *advertiser censored* of him and anyone, including her. Maybe 20 years ago, but the *advertiser censored* world has long moved way, way beyond anything of such dubious quality. Sorry, but that's the reality.

2. He sold her to someone. Come on. Young girls are stolen and sold into sexual slavery, but a 35 year old woman who looks like 20 miles of bad road? No. Anyone who actually wanted to kidnap such a woman would just do it. They wouldn't pay some idiot like GVG (and if they did, they would kill him and take the money back to avoid a witness).

3. Robyn was not a willing participant in sex with GVG. The notion that she was hoodwinked into going there on some innocent notion, be it a vacation or a "photo shoot", and then wouldn't "put out", is absurd. This woman had been around the block a few times. She knew the score. Not to mention the photos they found.... No, she was a willing participant on that level (and I doubt that milktoast was even capable of anything she couldn't handle).

I still think the insurance angle is viable. Too much adds up to that. He drugged her. He set it up. He took her to a remote location. Probably strangled her. Then either pulled her out to sea at that location (I'm leaning toward that) or drove over to the cliffs and dumped her.

I'm not naive, and there's a big difference between having sex with someone and beyond pornographic on camera.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Could be they went to location 2 and she was shoved off a cliff on the East side of the Island, he then drove back to Nanki and made the call. No body, they were looking in the wrong spot and the sharks got to her. - Just a thought.

I have thought the same thing and it does make a lot of sense. I was the guy making all the maps of where he likely threw her off a cliff. He didn't shove her, IMO. He had violent sex with her, choked her to death, then threw her over a cliff. MOO. That is definitely a possibility.

 

[concentric]

There's a handful of what I think are somewhat, well, naive ideas being tossed around here.

1. GVG was making *advertiser censored* for money. Ridiculous. No one, I repeat, no one is going to pay real money for *advertiser censored* of him and anyone, including her. Maybe 20 years ago, but the *advertiser censored* world has long moved way, way beyond anything of such dubious quality. Sorry, but that's the reality.

2. He sold her to someone. Come on. Young girls are stolen and sold into sexual slavery, but a 35 year old woman who looks like 20 miles of bad road? No. Anyone who actually wanted to kidnap such a woman would just do it. They wouldn't pay some idiot like GVG (and if they did, they would kill him and take the money back to avoid a witness).

3. Robyn was not a willing participant in sex with GVG. The notion that she was hoodwinked into going there on some innocent notion, be it a vacation or a "photo shoot", and then wouldn't "put out", is absurd. This woman had been around the block a few times. She knew the score. Not to mention the photos they found.... No, she was a willing participant on that level (and I doubt that milktoast was even capable of anything she couldn't handle).
----------------

I still think there are women out there who think they are irrestible and would fall for a con man's promises.

 

[AngelFish]

I have thought the same thing and it does make a lot of sense. I was the guy making all the maps of where he likely threw her off a cliff. He didn't shove her, IMO. He had violent sex with her, choked her to death, then threw her over a cliff. MOO. That is definitely a possibility.

I saw the maps. Nice job. Can you re-post it. I can't recall which thread it is. I don't recall the shark feeding location identified on the map. Let's find it and map out the drive.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

I'm not naive, and there's a big difference between having sex with someone and beyond pornographic on camera.

Well, Robyn was obviously not new to the world of sexual modeling. And the reports are that the photos they found appeared un-coerced.

But anyway, what does the term "beyond pornographic" mean? Seriously. To some people, the word "pornographic" means Playboy magazine. To such (naive) people, graphic shots of sex acts, genitalia, male or female orgasms, even mild sadomasochism would seem absolutely shocking. And the world of *advertiser censored* today goes well beyond all of that as a routine matter. My guess is, the photos were run of the mill cheap amateur *advertiser censored* shots. Stuff Robyn had probable done plenty of times before, along with countless thousands of other women (and the younger generations are far more open to such things than many people think).

So what is your point, annalia? What are you thinking? Do you seriously think she balked at some kind of sex shoot (or sex) and he killed her for that?

 

[concentric]

Well, Robyn was obviously not new to the world of sexual modeling.

She's in a bikini. I don't know of any *advertiser censored* shots of her, do you?

 

[cluciano63]

I am still stuck on the fact that at least some photos apparently showed only "organs" yet they knew it was Robyn and that she was not being forced...what constitutes organs, beyond the obvious, I wonder...and how identifiable are they...

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I saw the maps. Nice job. Can you re-post it. I can't recall which thread it is. I don't recall the shark feeding location identified on the map. Let's find it and map out the drive.

Sure here they are. Note the first one circles the wrong Mariot. The right one is west of that location, still on the northern part of the island. It wasn't established which Mariot she was staying at when the map was made. The purple line represents what Google says is the fastest route there to those cliffs at Boca Mahos, and it takes about 30 minutes to get there (one way).

The point "A" refers to Boca Mahos, which is circled on the above map.

 

[AngelFish]

I am still stuck on the fact that at least some photos apparently showed only "organs" yet they knew it was Robyn and that she was not being forced...what constitutes organs, beyond the obvious, I wonder...and how identifiable are they...

could be there is a tattoo in the "area' that was visible on photos that also showed her face and said tattoo was visible in the organ's only photo... just a thought.

 

[Kiln Wood]

I find a few things "curious" about RF.

He did not go to Aruba when he learned that RG is missing . On FB, in response to the question "Will you be going to Aruba"? His response is "I'm more effective here spreading the word. I would like to go, but don't want to interfere with investigation...which I would most likely do. Just praying to be united as soon as possible."

However, he has said that the FBI has asked him to stop speaking because it interferes with the investigation; yet continues to do interviews.

In an interview I'm sure he said that he and RG were about to begin looking for a place to move to together. In another interview he said he had just moved and also said that her cats and clothing had been returned to her brother.

Roommate CJ said the relationship between RG & RF is not all that it appears to be.

RF reached out to and is currently working with Hollywood Physic Carla Baron with updates posted on her FB and Twitter. Here is a link to an article about it: http:///viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979984796

RF is in NYC now for more media interviews per FB postings.

I just have a hard time feeling he isn't trying to position himself to cash in on this.

It if were my family member, I'm pretty sure I would be in Aruba to be present at GG's hearing of earlier this week AND trying to communicate directly with Aruban Authorities.

BBM

Perhaps he doesn't have the money or a large enough line of credit open on a credit card or a family member/friend from whom he could borrow enough money.....Perhaps he doesn't have a valid passport.....

 

[Just-a-Guy]

She's in a bikini. I don't know of any *advertiser censored* shots of her, do you?

I suppose I could answer that Taco Stein apparently has some.

There are some semi-nudes on the modelmayhem site (topless).

But no, I haven't seen any hard *advertiser censored* of her. I base my assumptions on what I have seen. I don't happen to believe that the modelmayhem profile was set up by GVG as a sham. There is no evidence of that, and I think the listing is consistent with what we know about Robyn. I suspect it was Robyn who set it up (even RF said she was into modeling). A woman who puts semi-nude shots of herself on that site, and advertises that she's open to shoots of any type, for money, is not exactly looking to work for the Sears catalog. If you don't get that, I'm sorry. Spend some time on the modelmayhem forums. Then tell me what you think.

Lest anyone interpret me otherwise, not only do I not pass any judgment on Robyn for any of this, I find it totally acceptable and fine and within her rights as a woman in a modern free society. The risk, of course, is that the world of "risque modeling" includes the occasional dangerous creep. But I don't think that's what got her. I think the dating site is what got her. That and a combination of bad luck, bad timing and a bit of (perhaps naive) recklessness. Sad.

 

[AngelFish]

Sure here they are. Note the first one circles the wrong Mariot. The right one is west of that location, still on the northern part of the island. It wasn't established which Mariot she was staying at when the map was made. The purple line represents what Google says is the fastest route there to those cliffs at Boca Mahos, and it takes about 30 minutes to get there (one way).

The point "A" refers to Boca Mahos, which is circled on the above map.

I believe the shark feeding area is Andicouri Bay which is shown on your map, just below the A. It might equate to a 1 or 2 mile drive.

 

[annalia]

Well, Robyn was obviously not new to the world of sexual modeling. And the reports are that the photos they found appeared un-coerced. But anyway, what does the term "beyond pornographic" mean? Seriously. To some people, the word "pornographic" means Playboy magazine. To such (naive) people, graphic shots of sex acts, genitalia, male or female orgasms, even mild sadomasochism would seem absolutely shocking. And the world of *advertiser censored* today goes well beyond all of that as a routine matter. My guess is, the photos were run of the mill cheap amateur *advertiser censored* shots. Stuff Robyn had probable done plenty of times before, along with countless thousands of other women (and the younger generations are far more open to such things than many people think).

So what is your point, annalia? What are you thinking? Do you seriously think she balked at some kind of sex shoot (or sex) and he killed her for that?

My bolding

You can tell from pics that only showed organs that it wasn't coerced? How?

Do you have any links to this *advertiser censored* that's she's done plenty of times before?

I'm sure not naive enough to think that in this day and age if a 35 yr old has sex that it makes her a *advertiser censored* star.

 

[annalia]

could be there is a tattoo in the "area' that was visible on photos that also showed her face and said tattoo was visible in the organ's only photo... just a thought.

But it was said that all that was shown in some were organs, how would they know in those pics that she wasn't being coerced?

Taking it one step further, how can any still pic show whether or not someone was being coerced, especially if they were drugged?

JMHO

 

[AngelFish]

BBM

Perhaps he doesn't have the money or a large enough line of credit open on a credit card or a family member/friend from whom he could borrow enough money.....Perhaps he doesn't have a valid passport.....

One can get a PP in a matter of days in an emergency situation. Money can always be raised, especially in such a situation. How is he traveling to NY for interviews and moving if he does not have some cash or credit? Where there is a will there is a way. JMO

 

[Just-a-Guy]

My bolding

You can tell from pics that only showed organs that it wasn't coerced? How?

Do you have any links to this *advertiser censored* that's she's done plenty of times before?

I did not say that I had seen them. I merely said that the reports were that they did not appear to be coerced. I don't find that particularly hard to believe. And I don't think it's generally all that difficult to tell whether sex shots were coerced or not.

I also did not say that she's done *advertiser censored* "plenty of times before." I have no idea (although I wouldn't be surprised if a diligent search of the amateur *advertiser censored* sites yielded some). I said that I believe she was not a stranger to the world of nude photography. Again, that's consistent with the actual evidence (including the actual photographs on modelmayhem, together with her profile, and her "boyfriend's" reference to "modeling", and with the reality of her age and condition).

<modsnip>. There's a great deal of rampant speculation and wild hypothesizing around here. I am just trying to deduce from the facts that have been reported (and I have to assume there is some accuracy to them until evidence surfaces to the contrary), and the information actually available. I don't think she was naive about the sex expected of her, or about any photography -- or shy of either. I suspect she was more capable of such things than even GVG, who looks like a pathetic joke.

My "guess" -- and that's all any of us are doing -- is he either killed her accidentally and freaked out, or he killed her for the insurance money. I just don't see any real evidence (circumstantial is all there is) of any other scenarios.

 

[concentric]

I thought the words were "did not appear to be under duress"

That's different from: "did not appear to be coerced"

 

[annalia]

I did not say that I had seen them. I merely said that the reports were that they did not appear to be coerced. I don't find that particularly hard to believe. And I don't think it's generally all that difficult to tell whether sex shots were coerced or not.

I also did not say that she's done *advertiser censored* "plenty of times before." I have no idea (although I wouldn't be surprised if a diligent search of the amateur *advertiser censored* sites yielded some). I said that I believe she was not a stranger to the world of nude photography. Again, that's consistent with the actual evidence (including the actual photographs on modelmayhem, together with her profile, and her "boyfriend's" reference to "modeling", and with the reality of her age and condition).

Really, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't distort things that I've said. There's a great deal of rampant speculation and wild hypothesizing around here. I am just trying to deduce from the facts that have been reported (and I have to assume there is some accuracy to them until evidence surfaces to the contrary), and the information actually available. I don't think she was naive about the sex expected of her, or about any photography -- or shy of either. I suspect she was more capable of such things than even GVG, who looks like a pathetic joke.

My "guess" -- and that's all any of us are doing -- is he either killed her accidentally and freaked out, or he killed her for the insurance money. I just don't see any real evidence (circumstantial is all there is) of any other scenarios.

I didn't distort, here's what you posted, you didn't say nude photgraphy.

"To such (naive) people, graphic shots of sex acts, genitalia, male or female orgasms, even mild sadomasochism would seem absolutely shocking. And the world of *advertiser censored* today goes well beyond all of that as a routine matter. My guess is, the photos were run of the mill cheap amateur *advertiser censored* shots. Stuff Robyn had probable done plenty of times before, along with countless thousands of other women (and the younger generations are far more open to such things than many people think)."

I had already posted in my earlier post that she may have agreed to pose nude and said in this day and age that's that's not real shocking. So we seem to have a miscommunication and should probably end this.

 

[annalia]

I thought the words were "did not appear to be under duress"

That's different from: "did not appear to be coerced."

You're correct, that is what he said.