PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #4

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I am not Sherlock H. said:
Isn’t this a change to earlier information?

IIRC in the early aftermath, wasn’t it the case that the father had said words to the effect he had loaned a gun to his son? And that he (the father) had then attempted to look for the son and / or the gun or both once news broke of the shooting events at the Butler, PA fair grounds?

Thought I recalled reading that earlier up thread or so it seemed.

If so, that would seem to change some aspects of the gun ownership, etc? And also affect the possible sequence of events including in the aftermath of the shooting. MOO
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This is what think happened:
Father bought firearm from a firearms dealer in 2013.
Purchase requires background check.
If gun is sold or gifted to family member, a background check is not required
Therefore the gun was traced to the father.


However, the investigation was just getting started when they said that he had borrowed the gun. Was this media "interpretation"..
Maybe the media just interpreted that the father was the owner?

When a gun is sold or gifted from a family member to another family member a background check is not required.

I think the main takeaway would be: The father wasn't looking for his gun, because the gun was no longer his.

MOO
 
Friday Fan said:
This is what think happened:
Father bought firearm from a firearms dealer in 2013.
Purchase requires background check.
If gun is sold or gifted to family member, a background check is not required
Therefore the gun was traced to the father.


However, the investigation was just getting started when they said that he had borrowed the gun. Was this media "interpretation"..
Maybe the media just interpreted that the father was the owner?

When a gun is sold or gifted from a family member to another family member a background check is not required.

I think the main takeaway would be: The father wasn't looking for his gun, because the gun was no longer his.

MOO
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Thank you the thoughts and input. I think there might be some difference on the last takeaway. It doesn’t yet seem clear exactly what the father was trying to assess once learning of the shooting? Hopefully authorities will be able to clarify this as needed. MOO
 
Friday Fan said:
This is what think happened:
Father bought firearm from a firearms dealer in 2013.
Purchase requires background check.
If gun is sold or gifted to family member, a background check is not required
Therefore the gun was traced to the father.


However, the investigation was just getting started when they said that he had borrowed the gun. Was this media "interpretation"..
Maybe the media just interpreted that the father was the owner?

When a gun is sold or gifted from a family member to another family member a background check is not required.

I think the main takeaway would be: The father wasn't looking for his gun, because the gun was no longer his.

MOO
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Yes, that is likely how they traced the gun to the father and assumed it was his gun, not knowing that he had gifted or sold it to his son, the shooter.

On the other hand, if the father knew his son had gun to target practice and never returned, then he may have been really worried since he knew his son was out somewhere with the gun.
 
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Ruminations said:
Ironically, there seems to me to be a group of people who want a security agency run by a constantly changing and heated congress. The irony is allowing politicians to make demands of the agency will create a corrupt secret service.
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Are you talking about the agency or Dir. Cheatle? Isn't the Director of the Secret Service a political appointee?

The people want answers, not a witch hunt. IMO this is an important role of Congress, who represents the people. I have no authority or leverage to get answers where as they do have that authority to hold agencies accountable.

As someone said upstream, Dir Cheatle did herself a disservice by not answering questions. I have been following the testimony of the PSP individual and the FBI director. In both cases they are offering answers where possible. Yes, there is an ongoing investigation. However, she was the head of the secret service who was responsible for planning and coordinating that event. You cannot convince me that she was not briefed on all those pertinent details the same day of the assassination attempt by her people (if she didn't already know). If she still didn't have that information nine days later when she was asked to testify, then that is definitely a sign of a bad leader.

Now that she is gone...I'm done with that topic. I'm glad the last two days of testimony have provided further answers.
 
mom2chloe said:
This is what is wrong within government employment. Too many people underperforming who can’t be fired or moved around and costing too much money. IMO SS agents need to be LE or Military. Our presidents and our country deserve better. We need the best of the best in SS as well as military. I am thankful more people were not hurt but this is inexcusable. IMO
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Exactly !!!

Jake Sullivan's house was broken into while under protection of several Secret
Service agents. A committee member asked her were those employees fired or reprimanded, she answered no, they were moved to another position.

I thought the committee member was going to come out of his seat. I knew she was done at that point.

I know it's tough to document and counsel in order to reach termination status. A lot of managers just are not comfortable. A true leader weeds out the non or inconsistent performers.

When we don't have consequences for non performers, we tend to lose our best performers out of frustration and resentment. It lowers the bar and creates a disgruntled organization that is inefficient.
The secret service has a difficult time recruiting and retention, this might be at the root of the problem. No matter how much money you give an excellent employee if they are forced to work in a substandard employee environment they will seek employment elsewhere.
(Based on exit interviews)
Moo
 
Just my opinion, as far as how he walked around with the rifle and climbed up on the roof without anyone noticing the gun, I think is very obvious. I've thought this from the day it happened. I haven't said anything because I'm not familiar with Armalite Rifles and was waiting for someone else to bring it up. Noone has so here is my opinion.

The only rifle I have experience with is my 22, single shot, bolt action so I could easily be wrong.
When I transported my rifle from home to my grandfather's farm over 500 miles away, I removed the barrel from the stock. It took no more than 2 minutes to do that and only required the removal of 2 screws. I then wrapped it in some cloth and placed it under my suitcase in my trunk (ammunition in the glove box). Putting it back together was just as easy and just as fast.

I believe he did the same and put it in his backpack. A backpack can be seen on the roof of the building he fired from and before his body was removed. Was it the shooter's backpack?

My question is how did he get that backpack past the metal detectors?
 
OddOneOut said:
Just my opinion, as far as how he walked around with the rifle and climbed up on the roof without anyone noticing the gun, I think is very obvious. I've thought this from the day it happened. I haven't said anything because I'm not familiar with Armalite Rifles and was waiting for someone else to bring it up. Noone has so here is my opinion.

The only rifle I have experience with is my 22, single shot, bolt action so I could easily be wrong.
When I transported my rifle from home to my grandfather's farm over 500 miles away, I removed the barrel from the stock. It took no more than 2 minutes to do that and only required the removal of 2 screws. I then wrapped it in some cloth and placed it under my suitcase in my trunk (ammunition in the glove box). Putting it back together was just as easy and just as fast.

I believe he did the same and put it in his backpack. A backpack can be seen on the roof of the building he fired from and before his body was removed. Was it the shooter's backpack?

My question is how did he get that backpack past the metal detectors?
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Wasn't in the screening zone per reports. Could have had the gun in a pack until he climbed on the roof partially disassembled or even not. Depends on the pack and length of gun. Could have had the gun stashed somewhere since it was outside of the screening area. Length and specific style of gun unknown, no one has even mentioned barrel length (AR 15 encompasses a lot of styles). Still don't know the access of the roof (was it the ladder? An air conditioner? Some other way to climb up?) JMO

Edit: darned autocorrect when I ham hand my typing.
 
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fred&edna said:
IIRC no one was injured when Secret Service Director Julia Pierson resigned in 2014.


jmo
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She resigned the day after her congressional hearing.
Do we see a pattern?


As we've reported, the Secret Service came under scrutiny after a man scaled a fence, then ran past guards into the White House, where he allegedly managed to run through most of the building's main level before being apprehended by an off-duty officer.
.....
One report alleged that back in 2011, seven bullets struck the White House and Secret Service agents dismissed it as the backfire "from a nearby construction vehicle."

Later the Post reported that when President Obama visited the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in September, Secret Service agents allowed an armed contractor with a criminal record to ride an elevator with him.
.....
Pierson, it's worth noting, took over the Secret Service after the agency found itself in the middle of a prostitution scandal in 2012. Amid that scandal, Mark Sullivan, the agency's director, announced his retirement in February 2013.
 
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Sundog said:
Apparently the SS has the technology to determine if a drone has been deployed in the area, but I guess they didn't use this technology on July 13th in Butler. For an outdoor event with 20.000 people, I would think that technology would be used as standard protocol.

Hopefully they are using it now, including today at the rally in North Carolina, assuming it's an outside rally.
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I did not attend the in door event at Radford, VA yesterday, but know a few that did. It was indoor. They had drones, bomb sniffing dogs from Virginia State Police, VSP manned all the scanners.
This is right next door to Virginia Tech, Blacksburg and they are familiar with working with the Secret Service.

There were about eight different surrounding police departments, at least a hundred or more State Police and six sniper teams from various VA localities.
They compared the security to when Michelle Obama gave the commencement speech at Virginia Tech.

Don't know how many Secret Service were there.

Moo
 
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Stepping back to the day of the rally, was TC just going into the rally with a hope that he could get a chance to shoot. What would have happened if the building roof was manned, as it has been reported it was supposed to be? Did he just go, and saw a chance to take a shot? Would he have left if the roof was manned.
 
Is anyone a statistician? What are the chances that:
There was an outdoor event that just happened to be in a place/city/town where a person was willing to attempt an assassination?
And that the First Lady would just happen to need SS, dividing resources, on that exact same day an hour away at pretty much the last minute?
And that an obvious roof just happened to be outside of the security zone that had no security on it?
And that all security inside the higher roofed area just happened to leave their posts when the shooter was shooting?
And that the person who was willing to assassinate someone was able to get onto onto the roof without any security seeing/stopping him.
And that the person willing to assassinate someone could belly crawl the distance they did without the Counter sniper team facing that way seeing him at all? (might be tree line, but still, what are the odds)
And that there were no radios that managed to convey "Shooter on roof, get down" before the shooting started?

Was this person just prepared and looking to see if there was a hole in security and there was a gaping one in his face so he took a chance? What are the odds of that? I mean, I'd really like to know actual ones.
 
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Donswife48 said:
Stepping back to the day of the rally, was TC just going into the rally with a hope that he could get a chance to shoot. What would have happened if the building roof was manned, as it has been reported it was supposed to be? Did he just go, and saw a chance to take a shot? Would he have left if the roof was manned.
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Maybe plan "B" would be to attach one of his IED's to his drone and use that to attack President Trump. JMO.
 
Ghostwheel said:
Is anyone a statistician? What are the chances that:
There was an outdoor even that just happened to be in a place/city/town where a person was willing to attempt an assassination?
And that the First Lady would just happen to need SS, dividing resources, on that exact same day an hour away at pretty much the last minute?
And that an obvious roof just happened to be outside of the security zone that had no security on it?
And that all security inside the higher roofed area just happened to leave their posts when the shooter was shooting?
And that the person who was willing to assassinate someone was able to get onto onto the roof without any security seeing/stopping him.
And that the person willing to assassinate someone could belly crawl the distance they did without the Counter sniper team facing that way seeing him at all? (might be tree line, but still, what are the odds)
And that there were no radios that managed to convey "Shooter on roof, get down" before the shooting started?

Was this person just prepared and looking to see if there was a hole in security and there was a gaping one in his face so he took a chance? What are the odds of that? I mean, I'd really like to know actual ones.
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There are often competing events. There are two ongoing right now.


Much of the rest about security has been discussed. Shooters look for gaps.

Outdoor venues have more gaps. (No doors) I believe Trump's events have been indoors since.
 
Donswife48 said:
Stepping back to the day of the rally, was TC just going into the rally with a hope that he could get a chance to shoot. What would have happened if the building roof was manned, as it has been reported it was supposed to be? Did he just go, and saw a chance to take a shot? Would he have left if the roof was manned.
Click to expand...
I think you would have climb the ladder on the water Tower. He was extremely intelligent, appears to have done a massive amount of research, I feel sure he had plan b.
Moo
 
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