ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 2

[panthera]

What kind of interrogation techniques do you think he is getting right now? Is he also being interrogated by an FBI agent? Do you think there is a chance he could be gotten to confess?

My understanding from what has been on the news is the Aruban LE officials are able to question him for hours, daily, without him having an attorney present and even if he doesn't want to answer. Nothing like here.

MOO

 

[plaidmom]

I wonder if LE has ruled out the possibility that GG & Robyn Gardner came up with a plan to fake her death so GG could collect on the 1.5 mil insurance policy, then the two of them meet up somewhere & split the money? It was reported that GG told customs, as he attempted to fly out of Aruba, that his female companion had left on another flight. LE in Aruba seem to be pretty sure that she is dead, I am wondering what they have found that leads them to that conclusion.

I'm glad I'm not the only person on WS who thinks this way. And before I'm accused of being victim-unfriendly, I just want to say that, at least in this scenario RG is alive and well! And possibly truly in a better place.

According to various reports RG and GG have been friends for anywhere from 1.5-3 years. He may have some genuine affection for her. Why not help a friend out of a difficult spot (unemployment/bad relationship?) AND pocket some cash for yourself (sale-able *advertiser censored* shots and/or a split of the ins $$$)?

I also keep thinking back to the video where RG's roommate says that RG's and RF's relationship is not what it seems. That haunts me. Hopefully some astute WSer will have bookmarked/saved that?

 

[Shelby1]

I'm glad I'm not the only person on WS who thinks this way. And before I'm accused of being victim-unfriendly, I just want to say that, at least in this scenario RG is alive and well! And possibly truly in a better place.

According to various reports RG and GG have been friends for anywhere from 1.5-3 years. He may have some genuine affection for her. Why not help a friend out of a difficult spot (unemployment/bad relationship?) AND pocket some cash for yourself (sale-able *advertiser censored* shots and/or a split of the ins $$$)?

I also keep thinking back to the video where RG's roommate says that RG's and RF's relationship is not what it seems. That haunts me. Hopefully some astute WSer will have bookmarked/saved that?

I've also played with the same scenario.

But, where would she be?

Hiding in a cave? She'd need a lot of camping type supplies.

Left on a plane? NOPE. We'd know that.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think she would have wanted to have whatever photos have surfaced being seen, if she had faked her death...seems like they would have made sure to not have any sort of evidence around that could end up pointing to murder instead. Also, I just don't think it is likely...if you fake your death and do an insurance scam, you can never come back. Where on earth would she be now and at whose expense?

 

[panthera]

I don't think she would have wanted to have whatever photos have surfaced being seen, if she had faked her death...seems like they would have made sure to not have any sort of evidence around that could end up pointing to murder instead. Also, I just don't think it is likely...if you fake your death and do an insurance scam, you can never come back. Where on earth would she be now and at whose expense?

And thankfully the digital camera is in the hands of Aruban LE without it's images all over the Internet.

MOO

 

[concentric]

Why do these media programs even bother to have her friends on any longer, if no further insights into her life are gained?

Either the hosts/interviewers are barred from asking more in-depth/follow-up questions, or they aren't very good at it.

 

[concentric]

We've heard at least 3 different versions from the media on who the beneficiary is:

1. GG
2. RG's mother
3. GG's mother

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I've been studying the subject of profiling sexual murderers. I've looked over some of the material and I've chosen Dr. Richard Walter as one of the foremost experts on the subject. This is a paragraph on him from wiki:

As a psychologist in Michigan's notorious prison system, Walter had interviewed over two thousand murderers, sex-offenders and serial killers. Walter began to see common threads among offenders and was able to group all killings and sex crimes into four distinct "subtypes": power-assertive, power-reassurance, anger-retaliatory, and anger-excitation or sadism. He was the first to develop a matrix using suspect pre-crime, crime and post-crime behaviors as a tool for investigation. Walter later co-founded the Vidocq society, an exclusive organization of forensic professionals who solve cold cases for law enforcement agencies, worldwide. Together, Keppel and Walter created the HITS (Hunter Integrated Telemetry System) database, which lists characteristics of violent crimes so that common threads can be investigated. They also published a leading scholarly article for the FBI and violent crime investigators all over the world: "Profiling Killers: A Revised Classification Model for Understanding Sexual Murder".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offender_profiling#Richard_Walter_and_Bob_Keppel

So here is what he has to say. Basically, there are according to him FOUR types of sexual murderers. Here they are, with a description of each one:

1) POWER-ASSERTIVE RAPE MURDERER: The power-assertive rape-murder is described as a series of acts in which the rape is planned and the murder is an unplanned response of increasing aggression to ensure control of the victim. The actions are characterized by forceful aggression and intimidation. In the power-assertive rape-murder, Dr. Walter suggests that the homicide becomes one of maintaining control over a vulnerable victim, and the killer demonstrates mastery of the situation by taking charge by the use of an assertive image and dominating violence.

2) POWER-REASSURANCE RAPE MURDERER - This is a rape that is planned, followed by an unplanned death of the victim through overkill. In this type of sexual murder, Dr. Walter suggests that the killer is motivated by an “idealized seduction and conquest fantasy.” Dr. Walter points out that this type of killer expresses his sexual competence through seduction and when that fails, the murder allows the offender to regain the feeling of conquest.

3) ANGER-RETALIATORY RAPE MURDERER - The rape is planned and the initial murder involves overkill. This type of offender murders for purposes of retaliation, getting revenge on women due to poor past relationships with women.

4) ANGER-EXCITATION RAPE MURDERER - In this case both the rape and murder are planned for the purpose of inflicting pain and terror on the victim for personal gratification. This type of murder involves sadistic acts precipitated by highly specialized fantasies.

//

I am interested in anyone's input on which of these he might fit. Personally I find it difficult to classify GG, I think he could fit in more than one of these. The categories appear to overlap to me. I am leaning towards category 1. This would be with the understanding that the insurance matter is speculative and not proven yet. (I don't think it will pan out.) I really don't think the murder was planned, and that he would have loved to have had her around for the rest of the trip as his little sex toy.

I also like category 3 because Gary has a big history with anger issues towards women and I really just need more understanding of his past relationships to put him in this category. The fact it has the word "anger" in the title just fits Gary so well.

Your thoughts?


ETA: In case you didn't read one of the earlier filed reports of sexual assault on him in 2010, here is the part I could transcribe from the ABC video that showed the written report:

I prepared to leave after speaking with my daughter. Gary was angry and ordered me to stay. We drank wine and by 8 p.m., we argued about his past sexual lifestyle as a swinger. I prepared to leave again, but he pushed me into his bed where I stood near the footboard. My clothes were on and I had my period, which I told Gary. He pushed my dress up and pulled out my tampon, throwing it on the floor. We bagan to have sex. I couldn't look at him, so I turned over. He tried to have anal sex, but I protested. Then, he started to bite me - on my face, neck and breast and buttocks. I turned over to face him and he started to choke me with his bare hands. He then shoved his fingers down my throat. I was struggling and gagging.He then pushed my head onto his (?). I sat quietly and was crying. I told him that I wanted to go home. He protested, then told me to stop being a victim. He got angrier as I got my clothes on, so I huddled on the floor and kept quiet. Moments later, when he went to the bathroom, I ran out and drove home. On 4-16-10 I filled a police report in Montogomery Co. On 4-20-10 I filed assault...

 

[SeaNymph]

I'm really curious about the water/wind/wave conditions at the time that Robyn allegedly went into the water. I have been unable to find charts for Aug 2, but in looking at general charts for the coming week, the wave direction seems to be consistent.

Here's a link:

http://www.surf-forecast.com/breaks/Outside-Rodger-s-Beach/weather_map

From the same site, at the bottom of the page, there is information about the riptides

http://www.surf-forecast.com/breaks/Outside-Rodger-s-Beach

Overlaying that image onto a Google Earth image (to get the exact location of Aruba on the map) it looks like the winds are from the East to the West. It would really help to have the tidal charts and I'll continue looking for them, but on the surface, it appears that someone disappearing in riptides on the South West tip of the Island would drift South West.

From what I understood during Natalee Holloway's case, anything 'going out to sea' on the west coast, unless weighted of course, would drift directly to Venezuela, approximately 15-20 miles, southwest. I can tell you from visiting Aruba a couple of times, there is a stark contrast of the tides on the eastern vs. western coast. You can almost get an idea just by looking at a close Google map of the island - you see white caps all along the east coast, huge waves crashing against those rocks/cliffs - then barely a white spot on the west coast. The tides on the west coast (that I witnessed) were nothing like we think of here as 'waves crashing' - it is almost like a lake, with little 6" waves breaking around your ankles. So it seems to me if she did not go out far enough to get into deeper waters that would have carried her to Venezuela, they should have literally found her floating around the beaches/coves on the west side of the island. I may be wrong but I find it highly unlikely, even at that southern point where they were that her body could have possibly naturally washed back around to the rough east coast of the island.

 

[defense101]

We've heard at least 3 different versions from the media on who the beneficiary is:

1. GG
2. RG's mother
3. GG's mother

On Anderson Cooper tonight Martin Savage who spoke with investigators today when asked said that GG's policy was to be paid out to his mother, when asked who RG's paid out to they wouldn't release that information.

 

[otto]

From what I understood during Natalee Holloway's case, anything 'going out to sea' on the west coast, unless weighted of course, would drift directly to Venezuela, approximately 15-20 miles, southwest. I can tell you from visiting Aruba a couple of times, there is a stark contrast of the tides on the eastern vs. western coast. You can almost get an idea just by looking at a close Google map of the island - you see white caps all along the east coast, huge waves crashing against those rocks/cliffs - then barely a white spot on the west coast. The tides on the west coast (that I witnessed) were nothing like we think of here as 'waves crashing' - it is almost like a lake, with little 6" waves breaking around your ankles. So it seems to me if she did not go out far enough to get into deeper waters that would have carried her to Venezuela, they should have literally found her floating around the beaches/coves on the west side of the island. I may be wrong but I find it highly unlikely, even at that southern point where they were that her body could have possibly naturally washed back around to the rough east coast of the island.

I agree ... I think it's unlikely that someone caught in the riptides off Rodger's beach/Nanki Beach area would wash back to shore. The water directly west may look calm near shore, but the Baby Beach and Nanki area are known for riptides.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Let's say she did drift out to sea right there. Somebody earlier mentioned how these stories criminals tell always have some truth mixed in. Well maybe Gary was swimming for his life - after swimming out as far as he could with a dead body. He almost drowned getting caught in the current he took her out to. He was truthfully just trying to save his own life. Nice twist on his part. Anyway, how long would it take for the body to wash up in Venezuela? Is there a past example?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Let's say she did drift out to sea right there. Somebody earlier mentioned how these stories criminals tell always have some truth mixed in. Well maybe Gary was swimming for his life - after swimming out as far as he could with a dead body. He almost drowned getting caught in the current he took her out to. He was truthfully just trying to save his own life. Nice twist on his part. Anyway, how long would it take for the body to wash up in Venezuela? Is there a past example?

The more I think about this using the scenario where the death was unplanned, that's exactly what he would have done. He would want to dispose of that body and fast. He would not want to be driving around with a dead body in the car. He would look at the water and get her in there ASAP before someone notices her dead. Then he would have swum her out there as FAR as he possibly could, to where that body would not float back. He would have had a hell of a time swimming back. He would have been in a mental frenzy on what to do, and his actions were scatter-brain with the being caught on video at 6 pm yet not making it to the other side of the building until 20 minutes later. He may have been unsure what to say, when to say it, etc. He probably thought about just pretending she ran away, or took off with another friend. But his safest bet in his mind was to say she drowned and drifted off there. That way, even if the body does show up, it aligns with his story.

ETA: Also, the snorkeling story would explain to anyone what he was doing out there with her in case he was seen. He would have had her face down like she was snorkeling.

 

[otto]

Let's say she did drift out to sea right there. Somebody earlier mentioned how these stories criminals tell always have some truth mixed in. Well maybe Gary was swimming for his life - after swimming out as far as he could with a dead body. He almost drowned getting caught in the current he took her out to. He was truthfully just trying to save his own life. Nice twist on his part. Anyway, how long would it take for the body to wash up in Venezuela? Is there a past example?

I think it's unlikely that a body will actually wash up on the beach after tossing around in the ocean for 12 miles (I think that's what it is). Ms Holloway never did wash up and she probably went into the ocean as well.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...r_maryland_woman_had_explosive_temper_re.html

This is an interesting photo. What do you think he is showing them there? Could that have been the spot she died, after being raped and choked? Was this location on the beach another piece of truth mixed in with his story? Was he happy to be in that same spot again and relive the moment? Possibly, IMO. Notice where his attention is. It's not on them. It's back in the moment, when he was having sex, and you can tell what position. MOO.

 

[StJohn]

I think, if this is a murder, that GG drugged RG before he killed her. The reasons I think so are 1) if drugged, she would have diminished ability to fight back when he attacked her, 2) people in the restaurant who witnessed RG said she appeared "woozy" & 3) GG feared if RG's body was found, tox tests would show drugs in her system, so he told police that RG drank vodka & took sleeping pills earlier that day (who takes sleeping pills with vodka during the day, then goes snorkeling?). Drugging could explain the alledged *advertiser censored* style photos of RG found on GG's digital camera - if she was half out-of-it, he could have posed her any way he wanted, then sold the pictures to a *advertiser censored* dealer. I remember in the Natalee Holloway case, there was speculation that she may have been used to make a "snuff film", so who knows if GG might have pursued that using RG as well?

 

[Inspector Gidget]

NO, I don't think he will confess

As dumb as he seems to be,they might be able to trick him into a confession.Get a few good FBI agents in there with him and I bet his toupee would do a 360.I think he knows he is in way to deep this time.He looks burned out to me JMO

 

[Tugela]

From what I understood during Natalee Holloway's case, anything 'going out to sea' on the west coast, unless weighted of course, would drift directly to Venezuela, approximately 15-20 miles, southwest. I can tell you from visiting Aruba a couple of times, there is a stark contrast of the tides on the eastern vs. western coast. You can almost get an idea just by looking at a close Google map of the island - you see white caps all along the east coast, huge waves crashing against those rocks/cliffs - then barely a white spot on the west coast. The tides on the west coast (that I witnessed) were nothing like we think of here as 'waves crashing' - it is almost like a lake, with little 6" waves breaking around your ankles. So it seems to me if she did not go out far enough to get into deeper waters that would have carried her to Venezuela, they should have literally found her floating around the beaches/coves on the west side of the island. I may be wrong but I find it highly unlikely, even at that southern point where they were that her body could have possibly naturally washed back around to the rough east coast of the island.

Waves and tides are not caused by the same thing. Tides are caused by the action of the moon and will cause currents as they wax and wane. Waves are caused by wind action over wide stretches of water, but do not generate currents allthough they will impart some energy to anything floating on top of them. If you dont have a lot of wave action, because one side of the island is sheltered from the prevailing wind direction, there would be little to drive anything onto shore and movement would largely be dependent on the tides and local wind conditions.

The direction a body would float would depend on the tide at the time, the prevailing wind direction and the local wind direction at the time.

 

[Tugela]

These are the prevailing currents in that part of the Carribean. If you were swept out to sea, it looks like the Carribean current would carry you roughly parallel to the western Aruban coastline. So if she was washed ashore it could be anywhere along the west coast, and after that she would be carried out into the open ocean, maybe landing up in central America if she made it that far.

The south/west coast of Aruba shows coastal structures that clearly indicate that there is significant longshore drift there, but not on the north/east side.

 

[Pedrosmom]

What kind of interrogation techniques do you think he is getting right now? Is he also being interrogated by an FBI agent? Do you think there is a chance he could be gotten to confess?

I would think that just taking food away for a few days would get this guy to confess. Eewww.:loser: