ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 5

[LambChop]

Thank you for enlightening me, I had not heard this before. If that's the case, then I can believe the chances of her being sold are slim to none and maybe I can get past that as a possibility. Was it Natalie's disappearance specifically that led to this tightened security, and though I have heard reports that many believe she was sold, do you know if authorities believed she may have been as well?

So if he wanted her to wash up somewhere he wouldn't have weighted her, or bagged or tied her w/ anything as that would be evidence he killed her and wouldn't tie in w/ his "accidental drowning". It's known that she was drinking heavily and most of us probably agree that she was most likely drugged. She may have passed out in the car and all he had to do was carry her to the sea. I agree that them going snorkeling at that hour especially after heavy drinking is totally too far fetched. There's just no way I believe that's what they did.

Natalie was reported missing on Monday. I arrived in Aruba that following Saturday. My friends had already been there a week. My friend said he had heard while talking to a local in the doctor's office on Wednesday that 3 local boys had taken her to the beach to have fun with her and they apparently thought she was dead. She had a seizure from whatever they gave her to drink and they thought she was dead and got rid of the body. My friend asked where she was and he said "halfway to Panama", which meant they put her where the currents would pull her body away. We thought it was just a rumor because the security guards were suspects at the time and thought nothing more about until Joran was arrested. Also the fisherman know those currents like the back of their hand.

They don't have a human trafficing problem, they have a "young men with too many hormones" on their hands.

This year someone where I stay told me they had found ID cards belonging to a young American woman on the beach in amongst some rocks last year. This person planned on giving them to the police but decided to just call the woman when they arrived home because it probably just dropped out of her beach bag. Imagine their surprise when the young woman told them the very same thing happened to her that happened to Natalie except they (not Joran but 3 others) let her go. So for young women, my suggestion is do not go alone to Aruba. Do not drink with strange men no matter how good looking they may be. The young woman reported it to police but nothing was ever done to her knowledge. They never follow up with Americans once they have left the island. jmo

 

[Micheline]

Also have wondered why they would want to leave that beautiful resort w/ private beach to go to that public area, not once but twice. I think it was HatesSociopaths that mentioned maybe GG had Robyn believing he was lookin for a place to do a photo shoot, which sounds like a possibility, otherwise what was his explaination to her that they revisited that area two days in a row?

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

Maybe the answer to this is really simple.
GG told police Robyn wanted to suntan topless, so far Forester nor Christina have denied Robyn would want to do that, she was an aspiring model and could not use bikini stripes.

So they go there Monday, they suntan, walk talk etc and decide it is a nice place where they are not bothered for example by other man looking at Robyn, maybe they even took some pics.

The next day they go back, but since they found the restaurant and bar closed the day before, GG purchases a bottle of vodka at the hotel (as alleged) and some OJ, and puts it in the trunk in the back of his car so they can have a drink if they want to in case the bar is closed again.

Nothing sinister about it, not about the two visits nor his "own stock of alcohol". IMO

 

[LambChop]

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

Maybe the answer to this is really simple.
GG told police Robyn wanted to suntan topless, so far Forester nor Christina have denied Robyn would want to do that, she was an aspiring model and could not use bikini stripes.

So they go there Monday, they suntan, walk talk etc and decide it is a nice place where they are not bothered for example by other man looking at Robyn, maybe they even took some pics.

The next day they go back, but since they found the restaurant and bar closed the day before, GG purchases a bottle of vodka at the hotel (as alleged) and some OJ, and puts it in the trunk in the back of his car so they can have a drink if they want to in case the bar is closed again.

Nothing sinister about it, not about the two visits nor his "own stock of alcohol". IMO

You would need at least 5 or 6 drinks in you to believe you'll get a tan after 4pm in Aruba. Besides it is a family beach on the shallow side and I don't think she would be willing to lay on rocks to get a tan. I think the fisherman probably ruined GG's day by being there and watching them. It may not have been as secluded as it was the day before with the restaurant closed so he may have had to change his plans.

Was GG planning on taking pictures of her? Was she under the understanding that she was down there for a photo shoot? jmo

 

[Micheline]

You would need at least 5 or 6 drinks in you to believe you'll get a tan after 4pm in Aruba.

It works really fine for me.
Besides that it is a wise thing to avoid suntanning between 11 and 3.

Besides it is a family beach on the shallow side and I don't think she would be willing to lay on rocks to get a tan. I think the fisherman probably ruined GG's day by being there and watching them. It may not have been as secluded as it was the day before with the restaurant closed so he may have had to change his plans.

I do not get the impression the beach was swarmed with families.
Is it a fact that Giordano had a plan?

Was GG planning on taking pictures of her? Was she under the understanding that she was down there for a photo shoot? jmo

I have no idea.

 

[Micheline]

Have a good day, all. Debating hypothetical situations and predicting panic behavior has done me in! :fence:

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me

Self preservation is a basic human instinct.

 

[LambChop]

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me

Self preservation is a basic human instinct.

Why didn't he remove his shoes? Basic human instinct 101.

 

[LambChop]

It works really fine for me.
Besides that it is a wise thing to avoid suntanning between 11 and 3.



I do not get the impression the beach was swarmed with families.
Is it a fact that Giordano had a plan?



I have no idea.

How often do you travel to Aruba?
Even though it's not wise to suntan between 11 and 3 many do. By 4pm the sun is too long on the horizon to get a tan plus there is no place to lounge where they were. The road is rock hard with little sand on it. Roads in that area along the beach look as if they are made of melted lava with sand mixed in with it.

We use to bring our grandchildren to Baby Beach all the time because it is so shallow and the kids could run, jump and play without us worrying about the currents. It is still a favorite of families and July/August is just packed with kids because school is out and families are on vacation. If GG had a plan it wasn't a very good one. Shoes were soaked but bathing suit is bone dry and he's still wearing his toupe and his hair is dry in the video. If you have ever been there....you would know enough not to go out in the waters beyond the breakers. Common sense. jmo

 

[HatesSociopaths]

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

Maybe the answer to this is really simple.
GG told police Robyn wanted to suntan topless, so far Forester nor Christina have denied Robyn would want to do that, she was an aspiring model and could not use bikini stripes.

So they go there Monday, they suntan, walk talk etc and decide it is a nice place where they are not bothered for example by other man looking at Robyn, maybe they even took some pics.

The next day they go back, but since they found the restaurant and bar closed the day before, GG purchases a bottle of vodka at the hotel (as alleged) and some OJ, and puts it in the trunk in the back of his car so they can have a drink if they want to in case the bar is closed again.

Nothing sinister about it, not about the two visits nor his "own stock of alcohol". IMO

BBM. Do you know where you saw that? I don't remember seeing that. I thought his story was that they simply went snorkeling? TIA.

 

[Micheline]

BBM. Do you know where you saw that? I don't remember seeing that. I thought his story was that they simply went snorkeling? TIA.

He was quoted as telling that to the police not long ago, I will look if I can find it.
ETA, a search did not come up with the quote so it must be in one of the clips.

Btw do you want me to go over the "R" some more, I see another 1.2.3.4 etc then you, let me know please because it is a lot of work.

 

[IslandSurfer]

Dushi and all,

I looked at that link you posted. Did you see the latest one? It shows the area where GG and RG supposedly went snorkeling. IT's like a little movie. Scary.

Here's the link:

http://bentpage.wordpress.com/2011/09/14/snorkeling-at-rocky-point-aruba/

What do you all think?

 

[neesaki]

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

Maybe the answer to this is really simple.
GG told police Robyn wanted to suntan topless, so far Forester nor Christina have denied Robyn would want to do that, she was an aspiring model and could not use bikini stripes.

So they go there Monday, they suntan, walk talk etc and decide it is a nice place where they are not bothered for example by other man looking at Robyn, maybe they even took some pics.

The next day they go back, but since they found the restaurant and bar closed the day before, GG purchases a bottle of vodka at the hotel (as alleged) and some OJ, and puts it in the trunk in the back of his car so they can have a drink if they want to in case the bar is closed again.

Nothing sinister about it, not about the two visits nor his "own stock of alcohol". IMO

I can see your reasoning, but at that late hour in the day is too late for sunbathing, at least for a serious sunbather. Those hours there would be like me going out here (in Texas) at about 5 PM, which is too late for tanning.

 

[neesaki]

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

Maybe the answer to this is really simple.
GG told police Robyn wanted to suntan topless, so far Forester nor Christina have denied Robyn would want to do that, she was an aspiring model and could not use bikini stripes.

So they go there Monday, they suntan, walk talk etc and decide it is a nice place where they are not bothered for example by other man looking at Robyn, maybe they even took some pics.

The next day they go back, but since they found the restaurant and bar closed the day before, GG purchases a bottle of vodka at the hotel (as alleged) and some OJ, and puts it in the trunk in the back of his car so they can have a drink if they want to in case the bar is closed again.

Nothing sinister about it, not about the two visits nor his "own stock of alcohol". IMO

Agree that there's nothing sinister in his own alcohol stock.

 

[neesaki]

It works really fine for me.
Besides that it is a wise thing to avoid suntanning between 11 and 3.

I do not get the impression the beach was swarmed with families.
Is it a fact that Giordano had a plan?

I have no idea.

No one interested in tanning would go out after 3:00 in that part of the world unless maybe they are just white as a ghost, and from the photos, RG already had a decent tan.

This is a link about Baby Beach which mentions there are a lot of children and families.

http://beaches.uptake.com/blog/my-favorite-aruba-beaches-4-baby-beach.html

 

[neesaki]

-respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

Maybe the answer to this is really simple.
GG told police Robyn wanted to suntan topless, so far Forester nor Christina have denied Robyn would want to do that, she was an aspiring model and could not use bikini stripes.

IMO

Also, according to witnesses, they said Robyn had perfectly done hair and makeup, which says to me that she was finished for the day with whatever tanning, snorkeling, swimming, etc. that she was going to do . She was ready to enjoy the rest of the day and evening doing some sightseeing, maybe photos, maybe she thought they would go out on the town, and obviously, some drinking. I just know that no female goes out to suntan or snorkel after they do all their makeup and hair. Way too much time and work involved, IMO

 

[Micheline]

BBMpriv. Do you know where you saw that? I don't remember seeing that. I thought his story was that they simply went snorkeling? TIA.

At 2:02:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/aruba-mystery-judge-suspect-custody-14426695

 

[Tugela]

This is the last I'll comment on this, cause I'm sure we could go round and round and never agree...

Please, please, please, provide all of us a link that shows that GG's statement to police says they were fighting a riptide and fighting their individual ways to shore. A police statement that he 'swam for his life'. I can't find a single one. And I'm not talking about one where you infer panic while they were swimming. I can find one where GG is trying to explain how he was trying to find help at the restaurant and stated he was panicked. Panicked about getting help. Not panicked while swimming. This CNN article states, "The prosecutor's office released a statement later Tuesday that provided some detail. The suspect told authorities that he had been snorkeling with Gardner behind Nanki Country Club when he signaled to her to swim back, the statement read. When the man reached the beach, the woman was nowhere to be found, he allegedly told them.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-10/...aruba-rental-car-facebook-message?_s=PM:WORLD

Discussing what the 'vast majority' do or don't do in a panic is a moot point: we don't know if they were really snorkling, we don't know if there was a riptide and we don't have evidence of GG's 'panic' while swimming. Also, discussing how '99% of people react' won't solve Robyn's case. And, again, I'd really like to see a link for how swim/snorkle/surf partners react statistically when one or both is caught in a riptide in the presence of the other. I'm not sure, but I would imagine some partners actually drown themselves, doing the wrong thing and trying to save their partner, panic or no. But as I can find no statistics on this, my estimation on how 'the vast majority' of people would react in this situation is as good as yours. :loser:

And did you see/hear any of those people who lifted the car interviewed? I did. I heard one on his cellphone saying he was afraid the car might blow up. Afterwards, a few others said they were afraid the car was going to blow up, but it was 'another human being' and they just went in and did it. Another was a father explained why he felt compelled to help despite the danger by saying, "I have a son, that was someone's son under there."
Just because you didn't perceive any immediate mortal danger to that car blowing up doesn't mean THEY didn't. And I could point you to hundreds of people on Setember 11th, who took the time to stop and help others while they themselves were trying to evactuate the building, running for their own lives.

Wouldn't one qualify GG at a minimum as a 'friend who would look out for her' as you mentioned above? She's his travel companion, they shared a bed, they're doing all their vacation activities together. At least a friend, right?Certainly his snorkling partner? Not a stranger. And, from what I understand of riptides, if he was actually in one and got to shore successfully, he knew enough to swim parallel to the shore to break out of it. (If he knew what to do, he likely wouldn't be as panicked as a riptide clueless person, if panicked at all.) You'd think once he'd broken free of this alleged riptide, he'd still have a ways to go to reach shore. Immediate emergency averted, he wouldn't think, "Cr@P! That was scary! Now where's Robyn?" not one single time after he broke from the rip? No? He'd just keep swimming, still out of his mind panicked and not once thinking, "I wonder if Robyn made it out"... until he got to shore?

Have a good day, all. Debating hypothetical situations and predicting panic behavior has done me in! :fence:

Well, we have the transcript of his interview with LE, which was reported by CNN here. According to them:

According to the transcript, Giordano told police that he feared for his life when he signaled for Gardner to turn back and didn't look for her as he swam for shore.

"I only looked back when I hit a rock," the document quotes Giordano as telling investigators. "Before that, I did not look back. I was only busy saving my life."
Gardner had been snorkeling before and was a comfortable swimmer, he said. And he showed police scrapes on his legs, but he said he did not know how they happened.

That is a pretty typical discription of someone who panicked. I'm sorry you don't like it, but that is what they reported he said.

Oh, and here is some footage of what a panic looks like: SYRIA - The city of Hama - Friday 03-06-2011- Protesters fleeing from live gunfire.FLV - YouTube

Note everyone stopping and helping their buddies when the gunfire breaks out.

 

[Micheline]

No one interested in tanning would go out after 3:00 in that part of the world unless maybe they are just white as a ghost, and from the photos, RG already had a decent tan.

One can tan quite nice with just the morning and afternoon sun.
I think it was Christina who said Robyn had a spray on tan.

This is a link about Baby Beach which mentions there are a lot of children and families.

http://beaches.uptake.com/blog/my-favorite-aruba-beaches-4-baby-beach.html

It is my understanding that Robyn and GG were at Roger's beach.

 

[LambChop]

Dushi and all,

I looked at that link you posted. Did you see the latest one? It shows the area where GG and RG supposedly went snorkeling. IT's like a little movie. Scary.

Here's the link:

http://bentpage.wordpress.com/2011/09/14/snorkeling-at-rocky-point-aruba/

What do you all think?

If RG cut her toe in the water she had no shoes on and there is no way she went into that water to snorkel. There are no fish there at that spot. Very difficult to walk without swim shoes because of those jagged rocks.

1/2 mile up the beach from the Mariett is an excellent place to snorkel plus homes are right there if you ran into trouble. Had he asked the hotel they would have directed him there. A lot closer than Baby Beach. As for pictures right past the lighthouse and down along the coast are a couple of coves with white sand. Very secluded. She could have disrobed and had her picture taken in the beautiful white sand with the ocean spray behind her hitting the cliffs on either side. Sand is like sugar and very deep. Either way, snorkeling or taking pictures the northern part of the island where they were staying had more opportunities.

Another note. If you have never been to Aruba and you asked locals they would never tell you to go there in that particular area to snorkel. They would also never tell you to go at 4pm in the afternoon. Once the sun starts to set you can't see people in the water.

For those who think drinking and driving in Aruba is A OK. It's not...they don't like it just as much as we don't like it here. jmo

 

[neesaki]

There are lots of crabs in those waters. If she were to wash up she would have by now. This spring a skull washed up near the Mariott but it was not Natalie's. jmo

Ok, so crabs will eat pretty much anything, at least if it's dead. So I hate to be morbid, but what about the skeletonized remains? Where are they or where did they go? Would they not have washed up by now?

 

[neesaki]

One can tan quite nice with just the morning and afternoon sun.
I think it was Christina who said Robyn had a spray on tan.

It is my understanding that Robyn and GG were at Roger's beach.

All I can say, is that I do tan and I just know that after about 3:30 to 4 PM, (Eastern or Central Time) it's pretty much a waste of time. Nonetheless... Robyn had already done her hair and makeup which indicates she was finished with whatever tanning, water sports, etc. she was going to do that day. JMO :waitasec:

In all honesty I have never been to Aruba, so know nothing about it personally. The link I posted previously said this about Roger's beach:

If you’re looking for a more private place to swim near Baby Beach, drive over to Rodger’s Beach –though be forewarned that the setting is a bit strange and spooky. The backdrop is an oil refinery, and the towers are continuously putting out plumes of black and gray smoke. You can’t really smell it and the water looks fine, but it’s just a bit odd. Both Baby Beach and Rodgers Beach are where to go if you want to hang out with locals, simply because getting there is a bit harder than the island’s other beaches.

Read more: http://beaches.uptake.com/blog/my-favorite-aruba-beaches-4-baby-beach.html#ixzz1Y58J6fxQ

Regardless of which beach they chose, Baby Beach or Rodger's, neither sound or look near as nice as the beaches at the resort that they were staying at, unless they were just out exploring and sightseeing. But to go to the exact same areas two days in a row, all I can say is that along w/ all the other red flags, well, that's just more red flags. JMO ​