AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #2

[Found]

I'm pretty sure there is no bank account to check.
If she wasn't receiving any form of benefits (as police said) then her dealings were all in cash.
So I can't think why they say they think she was killed in NSW or ACT other than that it possibly being the last place they know she was still alive.

I'm guessing they believe they were both killed close to bengalong forest but Khandalyce was moved later. Surely one murder was close to where a body was found.


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[Bliss_Perth]

I'm pretty sure there is no bank account to check.
If she wasn't receiving any form of benefits (as police said) then her dealings were all in cash.
So I can't think why they say they think she was killed in NSW or ACT other than that it possibly being the last place they know she was still alive.

I find it hard to believe she wasn't getting benefits. single mums dont have to report every fortnight and she would of been getting atleast $1000 a fortnight, id say police know she was getting benefits because they know of her previous locations that she would of reported to centrelink to claim renting assistance

“We know that at different times they have been in Darwin, Alice Springs, Adelaide, Canberra … we know that they stayed in cabin parks, motels and caravan parks along those routes and possibly along the Murray Mallee and Riverlands,” Bray said.

 

[they'll get you]

As an aside, the South Australian police have done us proud with this case — not just in the way they have so methodically endeavoured to identify this murdered child, but also how open and empathetic they’ve been since her body was found in July.

It’s the kind of policing that reaffirms your faith in the people who watch over us, even in the face of horrifying evil that they’ve revealed to us this week.

But if there’s more than one hero, there are many victims, too.

Of course, there are the murdered mum and her little girl, killed in circumstances too gruesome to reveal and dumped so forlornly and far apart.


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...580871999?sv=71ff833faad986e29b8ea5aa381be844

 

[JaneSA]

Try this >>> Search "Body in suitcase: Mum and baby's journey to abyss"
Sorry it's so confusing.
I have found the same article reproduced in other languages so maybe using Google Translate will help?

 

[Kouriouskell]

thank you so much for mentioning Andrew Rules Herald Sun article , i just read it and being a huge fan of his books , i found it a very interesting read . { i didn't like the bit about the many fares kids bit }

BBM: The only problem I have with that scenario is that if Bubs was apparently (We don't know how yet) but died an extremely violent death according to police. To "Get Rid" of a defenceless baby .... I'd imagine suffocation or overdose of something .....but police seem to be implying something far more horrendous.... sounds too personal if get what I'm saying..

Another possible scenario:

At a guess I think there may have been a main residence where Khandalyce and Karlie were residing where the murder took place...Khandalyce first, left decomposing - sheltered in some way....... Heck!!! in a roof cavity like that recent one in Wang..

A loss of temper by an out of control - controller!!

At this point Karlie is beside herself and whatever relationship she had with this person is spiralling out of control... at some point the maniac looses the plot again and Kills Karlie (on their travels)....

Bubs remains have been kept somewhere sheltered for all these years and police believe the remains had only been placed more recently (prior to dumping) into the suitcase... then discarded along the road..

Maybe kept in one of those properties that Andrew Rule mentioned in the herald sun article ...... where it was said that former farmhouses were rented out to transient tenants who came there escape unhappy pasts, debts and people who asked too many questions. The picture that was painted was of isolated properties where people could indulge in or manufacture drugs....

The lack of true care in hiding the suitcase..... it was more like an afterthought.... like yeah we need to get rid of this!! ....

Most likely due to having to vacate a property for one reason or another?? .... Following an arrest on an unrelated offence??
OR could have been a landowner who came across it.... and rather than explaining why he has illegally been renting out his former farmhouse, has simply decided to dump the suitcase and it's remains - so as to not have to answer any nasty questions of illegal income from a private rental ???

Having realised that no one had identified Karlie after her body was found..... I imagine the perpetrator/s felt fairly confident they had gotten away with this crime ..... She wasn't even listed as a missing person???

The criminologist who first gave input on the case was probably right .... she said who ever dumped the suitcase there.... had most likely done so because he believed there was no way of tracing her remains back to him...

 

[JaneSA]

Ah, sorry, trying to find a link to that blog that isn't paywalled has done my head in!

 

[Makara]

Welcome Specialk72, glad you decided to join us.

Hi,

I've been reading for months but haven't posted yet.

Just a few things from my point of view. I'm a single mum and there is no way I'd take off travelling around Australia working or drug dealing etc with a child in tow. I think at Karlie's age it would be more likely that she'd leave her daughter with family if that is what she wanted to do. I also believe for Karlie to take off with Kandalyce she must have been promised (a life, a job, help, a relationship....something alluring) with someone for her to take off. Things were obviously bad at home for her to leave, so she'd have to be going to something better IMO.

Also, having been a true crime buff for many many years, I believe whoever dropped the suitcase on the side of the road wanted this to all come out and be solved. It is also the work, I believe, of severely deranged people, like serial murderers who keep "trophies" of their victims. I can't believe the person/persons would try to put police off the scent by putting Karlie in Belangalo to try to get Milat to take the heat, then years later put the body and all the possessions of Kandalyce on the side of the road. It doesn't make sense to me that it would be the same person who hid Karlie in the forrest and then Kandalyce in plain sight.

It is also perplexing that NO ONE who apparently knows what happened has said a word in the last few years. Fear of retribution maybe....

There are lots of theories out there of drug involvement etc, but to be honest, I think it's just some sicko trying to get away with murder, now wanting some sort of notoreity (by placing body and clues) on the side of the road.

If it's a paedo - then jesus, it's high time that australian sentencing law for crimes against children is made to life in prison. Enough is enough! Saddened with how society is becoming these days.

 

[curiouslib]

I'm guessing they believe they were both killed close to bengalong forest but Khandalyce was moved later. Surely one murder was close to where a body was found.

Just thinking about possible reasons for the killer to dispose of the bodies in the way they did, particularly if it turns out they were killed at the same time.
The police stated that one possible motivation for dumping Karlie's body in Belanglo was to shift the blame to the Milats. Teenagers and young women were often Milat targets. If a young child's body was found with her this would be a deviation from previous Milat murders (I'm pretty sure there were no child murders...correct me if I'm wrong) and might spark a much wider investigation. In that context it would make sense to make sure Khandalyce's body and everything she ever owned wasn't discovered. For years it was hidden very well until recently when for one reason or another, the killer or an accomplice is forced to move it.

 

[MsDee]

Now, if Karlie was murdered because she got on the wrong side of a major dealer, that might help explain a few things...

..Could the possessions and suitcase have been kept by a third party, disgusted by the act, who held onto them as possible future evidence, or perhaps as a safeguard/guarantee that ensured they would not be killed too?

Would that explain recovering the child's remains and placing them in the suitcase at a later date (as we know forensics say happened)?

Has someone been keeping Khandle's remains for years because it was a form of insurance for them?
Is it possible that the danger has now passed because the killer is serving a life term or has died, and so the person keeping them for insurance dropped them off where they might, or might not be found and left the result in the lap of the gods?

This all sounds very plausible indeed. Either a form of insurance or a form of blackmail. Either would not surprise me in those sorts of circles.

I know bikies are hardened crims and do go against the law, but brutally murdering a 2 year old child doesn't usually fit their wrap sheet. I am in no way defending them what so ever but I grew up in a town that had alot of bikies and actually personally know an ex president of a bikie gang and all that I have met are very protective of children.

Yeah the bikie scenario doesn't do it for me either, I'm afraid.

. The possibility of Karlie getting mixed up with drugs is a fair call but I'm under the impression that she was maybe using drugs and not
running and pushing drugs

The problem with using drugs is eventually you run out of money, so to supplement your habit you have to start selling them.

I find it hard to believe she wasn't getting benefits. single mums dont have to report every fortnight and she would of been getting atleast $1000 a fortnight, id say police know she was getting benefits because they know of her previous locations that she would of reported to centrelink to claim renting assistance

“We know that at different times they have been in Darwin, Alice Springs, Adelaide, Canberra … we know that they stayed in cabin parks, motels and caravan parks along those routes and possibly along the Murray Mallee and Riverlands,” Bray said.

Yes, this doesn't add up for me. However, it is possible that she may have gone off CL in a bid to stay off grid, if she was running from something. I said before transients are usually running from or to something, and to leave like she did suggests to me that maybe she had already run afoul of people or things, hence leaving in the first place.

Also, if she were using drugs and selling them to pay for it, then she would not have needed much more money for them to stay afloat. She may have stayed in caravans or pubs when she had the cash, and slept in the car when she didn't.

I am thinking now she has hooked up with the wrong person, he has been violent, maybe more so when on drugs or alcohol, and killed the little girl first. Maybe someone close to the killer took the little girls body, in the suitcase, as collateral, and he lost it at Karlie thinking she had done something with it in order to implicate him. Maybe she did take it and gave it to someone she trusted, but that person baulked.

It's just a sad and tragic tale of misery. I don't believe she set off on a lovely working holiday with daughter in tow though. I do think now stones are being upturned, all the scurrying roaches from underneath them will be talking.

 

[Puggle]

I agree mostly. I do think there are some evil people in biker gangs for sure. But think pedophiles act alone or within small groups. Not a huge biker gang with the same sick agenda.



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There was a case a few years ago of a missing Adelaide girl (in her early twenties)..... turns out she wasn't missing at all...but had gone on the run because she probably had info about a murder (scared she would be next presumably) ...ahhh the grey matter...Mmmmm ....something to do with a murder at a car mechanics ...her car was used ..All Bikie gang related crap.

What I found out during that case was how Bikie Gangs have changed significantly over the years....olde codes no longer hold true... a lot of new members, new chapters are made from former refugees coming from countries where the atrocities witnessed or former lifestyles compared to what may be considered the norm here a so far apart - it's mindblowing ... "Its a whole new world!!" Just thought it worth mentioning...

As far as Paedophiles.... I agree they work more discreetly even in company...

I was originally thinking of Paedophiles..... but find it hard to imagine in the scenario I have in my mind....that they would then kill Khandalyce...if Mum was out of the picture...why would you kill (heinously) the object of your desire??... that make little sense too me....

Then again.....I have to remind myself of that sick F from South Australia who was recently arrested who posted about sick and twisted paedophile behaviour.. so I suppose it is possible that the object of desire can also be the desire to hurt that person...no emoticon to describe how that felt typing that...

Between this case and William's ..... I am gutted by the sick and disgusting underbelly of society that "we" as a society should know more about and Wonder why it's not front page news everyday - So we can collectively stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH...and start to address the issue head on...

sorry for the rant..

 

[Theodora]

The article is in today's Weekend Australian, starting on page 1 and continuing on page 8. The only way I could post a link would be if I could scan it and upload to the forum but I don't know if that can be done? I think there might be more in the online blog. It doesn't really contain anything new other than some criticism of her upbringing and hints without evidence of drugs and low life, as I have summarised.

The key points in the article in my paper are that Karlie left home very soon after the birth of Khandalyce. It says she left with her "infant" daughter 9 years ago, ie in 2006. It mentions the interview of an inmate in NSW and finding the person who bought the car. It just says that person helped the police to "fill in some of the gaps". The police believe more than one person was involved, as evidenced by searches of a number of places. They do not consider there is any link to Milat and they are "almost 100% sure" that Karlie was killed in NSW near Belanglo Forest. A number of houses in SA and ACT have been searched and they are occupied by people associated with Karlie and Khandalyce. The searches were productive and they have a lot of information from a lot of people.

Police are keeping an open mind while pursuing a strong line of inquiry and speaking to people the Police suspect know what happened. The article goes into the same areas of the other news reports about finding and identifying Karlie and Khandalyce, the report to police in 2009 and its withdrawal and so on. It does not specify the way Karlie's mother was informed that Karlie was safe but did not want to be contacted. The police think both Karlie and Khandalyce were dead by the time of that contact so whoever made the contact would be able to lead police to the killer.

The family did not contact police after this and just relied on Social media to try to contact Karlie. The article has a critical tone when saying this. The article says her family was "fractured", lived in an area of high unemployment where there was a lot of drug and alcohol use and violence. Karlie was small and quiet and played sport but article says Alice Springs is socially and racially divided and Karlie's family was "on the fringes" and mostly unemployed. It is suggested by someone they quote that this made it unsurprising that the family didn't take more steps to locate Karlie.

There is mention of Karlie's pregnancy and break up with Khandalyce's father and her relationship with Darren Ashley, who was sentenced to life in gaol in 2012 for the "brutal" murder of his wife, whose injuries the article describes. Police have ruled out the possibility that he killed Karlie but "it is indicative of the world she inhabited". Karlie left in 2006 after a dispute with her mother (this is suggested by a Facebook post) and travelled, having less and less contact over time.

Police know they stayed in caravan parks etc in and along the way between Darwin, Adelaide and Canberra. Police are investigating how she supported herself and Khandalyce and an Alice Springs local told the Australian that the route from Darwin to Adelaide and Canberra "are all known drug routes". The journalists say their questions of locals brought "unprompted" references to drugs and claims one of Karlie's old schoolmates half joked that they could end up in Belanglo themselves if they mentioned that he or she spoke to them.

Police are not ruling out that Karlie was working with the "underbelly of society" including drug runners and added that she might have supported herself doing odd jobs. Police do not think Karlie was drawing welfare payments and there were no medical records for Khandalyce after her 18 months vaccinations. There is reference to the photos taken in early November 2008 at the Marion Shopping Centre and not long after they were seen by police in "a routine traffic stop" in Coober Pedy.

So the only new material in the Australian is the fact Karlie left home in 2006, the critical comments about the environment in which she was raised and hints that she might have been involved with drugs but no evidence of that.
.........................................................

 

[Puggle]

Ah, sorry, trying to find a link to that blog that isn't paywalled has done my head in!

Don't sweat it Jane....

You have been here from the beginning .... digging...sleuthing ... adding and contributing to this thread continuously - You and I may have different views and Ideas...but has always been appreciated that you know your stuff and keep on top of every bit of info of this case ..*advertiser censored*

I was able to access it....via backdoors..

A lot of speculation by the writer.... a lot of hinting at the facts without actually providing any...

Reading between the lines though...the reporter is attempting to give a glimpse into her life... and sadly it isn't a particularly happy one.

If my Daughter had at any point in time hooked up with an older man who possibly had bikie gang relations...I'd be freaking out...would seem Mumma Knows best (Intuition??).

He went on to not only just stab multiple times his ex partner...but slash her throat!!!

 

[Puggle]

The article is in today's Weekend Australian, starting on page 1 and continuing on page 8. The only way I could post a link would be if I could scan it and upload to the forum but I don't know if that can be done? I think there might be more in the online blog. It doesn't really contain anything new other than some criticism of her upbringing and hints without evidence of drugs and low life, as I have summarised.

The key points in the article in my paper are that Karlie left home very soon after the birth of Khandalyce. It says she left with her "infant" daughter 9 years ago, ie in 2006. It mentions the interview of an inmate in NSW and finding the person who bought the car. It just says that person helped the police to "fill in some of the gaps". The police believe more than one person was involved, as evidenced by searches of a number of places. They do not consider there is any link to Milat and they are "almost 100% sure" that Karlie was killed in NSW near Belanglo Forest. A number of houses in SA and ACT have been searched and they are occupied by people associated with Karlie and Khandalyce. The searches were productive and they have a lot of information from a lot of people.

Police are keeping an open mind while pursuing a strong line of inquiry and speaking to people the Police suspect know what happened. The article goes into the same areas of the other news reports about finding and identifying Karlie and Khandalyce, the report to police in 2009 and its withdrawal and so on. It does not specify the way Karlie's mother was informed that Karlie was safe but did not want to be contacted. The police think both Karlie and Khandalyce were dead by the time of that contact so whoever made the contact would be able to lead police to the killer.

The family did not contact police after this and just relied on Social media to try to contact Karlie. The article has a critical tone when saying this. The article says her family was "fractured", lived in an area of high unemployment where there was a lot of drug and alcohol use and violence. Karlie was small and quiet and played sport but article says Alice Springs is socially and racially divided and Karlie's family was "on the fringes" and mostly unemployed. It is suggested by someone they quote that this made it unsurprising that the family didn't take more steps to locate Karlie.

There is mention of Karlie's pregnancy and break up with Khandalyce's father and her relationship with Darren Ashley, who was sentenced to life in gaol in 2012 for the "brutal" murder of his wife, whose injuries the article describes. Police have ruled out the possibility that he killed Karlie but "it is indicative of the world she inhabited". Karlie left in 2006 after a dispute with her mother (this is suggested by a Facebook post) and travelled, having less and less contact over time.

Police know they stayed in caravan parks etc in and along the way between Darwin, Adelaide and Canberra. Police are investigating how she supported herself and Khandalyce and an Alice Springs local told the Australian that the route from Darwin to Adelaide and Canberra "are all known drug routes". The journalists say their questions of locals brought "unprompted" references to drugs and claims one of Karlie's old schoolmates half joked that they could end up in Belanglo themselves if they mentioned that he or she spoke to them.

Police are not ruling out that Karlie was working with the "underbelly of society" including drug runners and added that she might have supported herself doing odd jobs. Police do not think Karlie was drawing welfare payments and there were no medical records for Khandalyce after her 18 months vaccinations. There is reference to the photos taken in early November 2008 at the Marion Shopping Centre and not long after they were seen by police in "a routine traffic stop" in Coober Pedy.

So the only new material in the Australian is the fact Karlie left home in 2006, the critical comments about the environment in which she was raised and hints that she might have been involved with drugs but no evidence of that.
.........................................................

Wow...and Wow... Brilliant job Theodora !!!!

Thankyou so much for taking the time to paraphrase the article in entirety ....

Lookout...we may ask you to be the Paraphraser of all future articles...

 

[Rayemonde]

I'm not Australian, and have never heard the term "bikies" before! Does it refer to members of motorbike clubs associated with criminal activities, such as the Hell's Angels? Are they a big problem in Australia? Where I live, bike gangs and bikers are harmless.

 

[Puggle]

I find it hard to believe she wasn't getting benefits. single mums dont have to report every fortnight and she would of been getting atleast $1000 a fortnight, id say police know she was getting benefits because they know of her previous locations that she would of reported to centrelink to claim renting assistance

“We know that at different times they have been in Darwin, Alice Springs, Adelaide, Canberra … we know that they stayed in cabin parks, motels and caravan parks along those routes and possibly along the Murray Mallee and Riverlands,” Bray said.

Do we know that she had been in Darwin, Alice Springs, Adelaide and Canberra based on welfare payments???... or by witness (friends) statements.... current article (grrr paywalled...suggests that she wasn't drawing welfare payments)...

I thought Bray was just asking for caravan parks, motel operators to check their records because they were assuming she may have stayed at places such as these - Not that it was fact... You have inverted commas... Did bray specifically say that?

Just asking in case I missed an article..

 

[sleuthin-suz]

I really dont believe this is bikie related. Bikies may be involved in a number of illegal activities but murdering a child and mixing with pedophiles is definitely not what they are into. If they were responsible for these murders the bodies would never have been found.
I think Karlie has run into an evil wolf in sheeps clothing who was more interested in her daughter than her. If they put both bodies in the Belangalo forest it would ruin their plan to make the POlice believe that Karlie was a backpacker. I believe little Angel was killed and put into the suitcase straight away and that it was buried then when the scum would move homes he would move the suitcase with him but when he was incarcerated he panicked and maybe asked a fellow scum bag of his to dispose of it OR asked his wife/partner who may have not had any knowledge about the suitcase to dispose of it only when she discovered what is inside she ensures its sput somewhere it will be found.

 

[Makara]

I'm not Australian, and have never heard the term "bikies" before! Does it refer to members of motorbike clubs associated with criminal activities, such as the Hell's Angels? Are they a big problem in Australia? Where I live, bike gangs and bikers are harmless.

The term bikies is in reference to the outlaw motorbike gangs here in Australia. They are usually associated with criminal activities and yes, they are a big problem here in Australia. The term biker refers to those who simply ride a motorbike. There are biker clubs and associations but not normally of the criminal variety.

ETA: I personally don't believe that bikies are involved in the murders of Karlie and Kandalyce.

 

[sleuthin-suz]

yes correct they are referred to as Bikies. They are known to be involved in illegal activities however they do not tolerate pedophiles or child murderers. They are known to often put charity days together in support of children etc....The media has depicted them in in a very bad light but so have the "newer" members who do not follow the original rules and ruin it for the rest of them.

 

[Puggle]

I'm not Australian, and have never heard the term "bikies" before! Does it refer to members of motorbike clubs associated with criminal activities, such as the Hell's Angels? Are they a big problem in Australia? Where I live, bike gangs and bikers are harmless.

Bikies.....is just a term here in Australia for people who are members of a motorcycle groups..... NOT necessarily any criminal activity associated with the word at all.

Big Problems here?? Mmmm...not that any person would be aware of day to day I suppose...would probably depend on your interest in following what these different groups are up to...

I suppose not unlike Paedophile activity ....day to day...average person wouldn't know much of what goes on outside their own bubble...

When you take time to research and actually find articles......it's mindblowing...

Maybe if you researched Bike Gangs in whatever country you live....maybe you will be shocked???

 

[KG1]

The blog in The Australian really paints a very nasty picture of Karlie and her family.
It's paywalled but the summary is that the Police find no evidence of her receiving welfare and yet she comes from a very welfare-dependant family.
The "friends" they spoke to seem to think Karlie was drug running for some time before disappearing and that her mother and step-father knew it.
They mention posts on the down defunct FB "Help Find Karlie" page as implying that Mum and Karlie had a bust up over her drug involvement.
I know it is a blog and mostly opinion based on unnamed sources, but if it's correct, then the murders may have been a drug deal gone wrong or a retribution for ripping off a major dealer.
It's a horrible article as it seems to be blaming Karlie for her own murder.

This sort of reporting or blog makes my blood boil. Who said that Karlie came from a 'very welfare depending family'? And what if that is correct? It appears that her mother was very ill, as she died at 44 years of age, and if Karlie's stepfather was with her mother, he may well have been her carer, and perfectly entitled to welfare. That is what it is available for - to help those in need. As Karlie was not on welfare, and she had stated that she was going away for work, perhaps to the 'judges', she did actually find paid work. Until more facts emerge, then it is mere speculation to suggest drug running, bikie involvement etc etc. Just so unfair to her remaining family. She is not to blame for her own murder or that of her baby daughter.