AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

[Maggie_May]

Not so much out there - it is pretty much no man's land and if they did go past it may have coincided with when the case was more concealed. What occurs to me is the mention of the "variety of items" in the suitcase that they won't describe or discuss...wonder what things there were besides the clothing and the child's book?

What baffles me is why police never had a look at the suitcase while it was lying around so close to the road. If only cause it would be dangerous for a suitcase to be lying there. People braking to have a look at it. Stopping or accidentally hitting it and ending up in a crash. Surely police must have driven past it on numerous occasions.

 

[Makara]

Not so much out there - it is pretty much no man's land and if they did go past it may have coincided with when the case was more concealed. What occurs to me is the mention of the "variety of items" in the suitcase that they won't describe or discuss...wonder what things there were besides the clothing and the child's book?

The child's book was discounted by police as being part of the content of the suitcase.

 

[Maggie_May]

Des Bray certainly made it clear in one of his very early comments after the announcement of DH's arrest that there were people who knew exactly what had happened to K and K (will look for a link)

Thank you for the considered reply Panda ...... I wonder if someone spilled the beans - if they have been granted immunity in some way. I agree the police wouldn't charge him without compelling evidence.... but then again I can't help wondering if there is *More* to this case....as in what may appear cut and dry...isn't or at least could possibly not be correct.

I have trouble fixing my opinion based on what has been presented so far.....and what I mean by that is...Everything as it stands centres on three Adults (and Kandalyce of course) ...but the adults...It's hard to see that their world didn't involve more interactions....and taking into consideration some MSM articles be they correct or not....gives room to have reasonable doubt and lingering questions.

For now..

 

[Maggie_May]

Thanks Makara. I had not seen that!

 

[JLZ]

Not so much out there - it is pretty much no man's land and if they did go past it may have coincided with when the case was more concealed. What occurs to me is the mention of the "variety of items" in the suitcase that they won't describe or discuss...wonder what things there were besides the clothing and the child's book?

Perhaps implements indicating the manner of death.

 

[Puggle]

The child's book was discounted by police as being part of the content of the suitcase.

Was the book discounted?.....I vaguely remember.... what did (police) they say about the book??....arrr grey matter

 

[Puggle]

So annoyed.... had a post that I spent a lot of time on that went poof into cyberspace...lol...wonder where it ended up???

 

[Warshawski]

HeHi M_M

IMO, I can totally understand that "Des Bray certainly made it clear in one of his very early comments after the announcement of DH's arrest that there were people who knew exactly what had happened to K and K (will look for a link)"

This horrendous occurrence did not just happen of its own accord so for sure there are people 'WHO KNOW'.

It is with gratitude that I acknowledge those who have come forward with (IMO) a whole lot more information than has been made public - again (IMO) this hideous crime is much bigger than it initially appeared in its isolated aspects.

Can you imagine what it looks like on the Police Plot boards, how many directions that takes? And I would suggest (again IMO only) that there are sound strategic reasons why we are not hearing anything more at this stage (also perhaps why DH is being so aloof?)

'Water finds it's own Level' and for sure there are reasons why we see the same areas present time and again.

<modsnip>

 

[snapey]

I don't think money. I believe the grandma becoming concerned about Karlie because her payments weren't being used is what motivated DH to use her accounts. He realised her not using the account drew suspicion so if he continued to use it grandma would believe all was well. My thoughts only.

 

[DutchTreat]

I take it that Trooper's point wasn't that this or that other criminal might be responsible, but that the factors I mentioned are widespread and therefore their being common to Snowtown and Karlie/Khandalyce is of no significance.

I think the identity fraud may have well be inspired by the Snowtown murders.
Karlie suddenly dead and now what. 'Oh wait what about making it look like she's still alive'.

 

[DutchTreat]

I don't think money. I believe the grandma becoming concerned about Karlie because her payments weren't being used is what motivated DH to use her accounts. He realised her not using the account drew suspicion so if he continued to use it grandma would believe all was well. My thoughts only.

Yes, I think that. And making sure there would be an electronic trail leading back from Canberra to Adelaide, so both DH and Karlie wouldn't connected to the Belanglo Angel's remains. Filling up the car at an Adelaide gas station returning from Canberra was done for that purpose I think. Cause it seems like (but we don't know all the transactions) Karlie didn't use her bank card for gas.

 

[Bohemian]

At the moment, I haven't any more than the following points to add (all IMO):

There had been in a tragic MVA in the months prior to Karlie's and Khandalyce's alleged murders. Therefore, I think the most likely scenario is that Karlie was allegedly murdered during a DV incident, brought about by the self-medication of, and psychological trauma experienced by, her alleged murderer.

Poor little Khandalyce was likely collateral damage. Khandalyce may, or may not, have been allegedly murdered in SA, rather her remains and other personal effects transported to Wynarka recently; by someone connected to her alleged murderer, but not involved in her alleged murder themselves.

I think the above may have been for a similar reason her mother (or her remains) was (were) transported to Belanglo State Forest; ie, to 'throw off' future investigators from discovering their identities, the connection between Karlie and Khandalyce and to their alleged murderer or to personally 'distance' the person who transported Khandalyce's remains from the alleged murder itself.

The 'people' who subsequently moved the suitcase closer to the road and/or 'rummaged' through it may not have been people at all; rather curious local domestic animals and/or wildlife.

 

[Wolfinator]

Yes, I think that. And making sure there would be an electronic trail leading back from Canberra to Adelaide, so both DH and Karlie wouldn't connected to the Belanglo Angel's remains. Filling up the car at an Adelaide gas station returning from Canberra was done for that purpose I think. Cause it seems like (but we don't know all the transactions) Karlie didn't use her bank card for gas.

All interesting observations.

As you say it could very well be that early on the fraud was a by product of a cover up. However, conning Karlie's mother for money goes above and beyond leaving a "digital" trail - that could have put the whole "cover" in jeopardy?

IMO None of this makes a great deal of sense (based on available trustworthy information - which to me is only police released and directly confirmed as true info - not just confirmed as being reported to crime stoppers....) but then again I'm reasonably rational and criminals on this level I guess are not.

And based on LE info my fall back position is that this was an incredibly sad story of dysfunction, drugs, violence and predation. DJH and accomplices are unhinged, mentally twisted, sub humans. My past speculations regarding Kandalyce were too distressing for many sleuthers and possible lurkers so I won't go there again.

When I was Karlie's age and younger I put myself in many very dangerous situations due to misadventure and naivety and rebellion. Got out by the skin of my teeth based on gut instinct that things were going very bad. As an adult looking back it was all so bleeding obvious. I didn't see the signs because I didn't even know the signs and what they meant.

By whatever means K&K fell down the rabbit hole and didn't make their way out to live and learn. And that is a great tragedy.


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[Bohemian]

All interesting observations.

As you say it could very well be that early on the fraud was a by product of a cover up. However, conning Karlie's mother for money goes above and beyond leaving a "digital" trail - that could have put the whole "cover" in jeopardy?

IMO None of this makes a great deal of sense (based on available trustworthy information - which to me is only police released and directly confirmed as true info - not just confirmed as being reported to crime stoppers....) but then again I'm reasonably rational and criminals on this level I guess are not.

And based on LE info my fall back position is that this was an incredibly sad story of dysfunction, drugs, violence and predation. DJH and accomplices are unhinged, mentally twisted, sub humans. My past speculations regarding Kandalyce were too distressing for many sleuthers and possible lurkers so I won't go there again.

When I was Karlie's age and younger I put myself in many very dangerous situations due to misadventure and naivety and rebellion. Got out by the skin of my teeth based on gut instinct that things were going very bad. As an adult looking back it was all so bleeding obvious. I didn't see the signs because I didn't even know the signs and what they meant.

By whatever means K&K fell down the rabbit hole and didn't make their way out to live and learn. And that is a great tragedy.


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I think your personal insight is so valid, Wolfie, and share your sentiments as 'There but for the Grace of God go I' and as we both know ignorance is not necessarily bliss. Young people make unwise and, sometimes fatal, mistakes.

BBM.

I am one of those sleuthers/possible lurkers (at times ) that found speculating regarding Khandalyce distressing but, personally that doesn't mean we can't speculate based on the facts; of which there are few.

We know from Task Force Mallee that Karlie and Khandalyce were last photographed in Marion SA and then sighted in Charnwood ACT in the month of November 2008 and that either Khandalyce (or her remains) were taken to Wynarka SA where her remains were found this year.

We just don't know under what specific circumstances Khandalyce lived after the alleged murder of her mother, Karlie, or exactly how she was allegedly murdered. Just that Des Bray believes Khandalyce 'suffered a violent death' between mid to late December 2008 and lived 'under terrible conditions'. As you and I (and many others here) know; children can be neglected, abused and victimised in a number of different ways.

 

[Wolfinator]

I think your personal insight is so valid, Wolfie, and share your sentiments as 'There but for the Grace of God go I' and as we both know ignorance is not necessarily bliss. Young people make unwise and, sometimes fatal, mistakes.

BBM.

I am one of those sleuthers/possible lurkers (at times ) that found speculating regarding Khandalyce distressing but, personally that doesn't mean we can't speculate based on the facts; of which there are few.

We know from Task Force Mallee that Karlie and Khandalyce were last photographed in Marion SA and then sighted in Charnwood ACT in the month of November 2008 and that either Khandalyce (or her remains) were taken to Wynarka SA where her remains were found this year.

We just don't know under what specific circumstances Khandalyce lived after the alleged murder of her mother, Karlie, or exactly how she was allegedly murdered. Just that Des Bray believes Khandalyce 'suffered a violent death' between mid to late December 2008 and lived 'under terrible conditions'. As you and I (and many others here) know; children can be neglected, abused and victimised in a number of different ways.

Absolutely agree Bohemian and all other info that gives rise to my fears for Kandalyce are rumour or sub judice and against WS rules. Time will tell and I am sincerely hoping to be very very wrong.


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[DutchTreat]

All interesting observations.

As you say it could very well be that early on the fraud was a by product of a cover up. However, conning Karlie's mother for money goes above and beyond leaving a "digital" trail - that could have put the whole "cover" in jeopardy?


Well to me that seems just a very smart thing to do. Create an atmosphere that suggests that Karlie was in big trouble on the run with people who had very bad intentions for her and Khandalyce chasing them around the country.

And that it would be just a matter of time before things went really wrong. The crucial thing would be to know when to call it quits. And Karlie and Khandalyce would have been alive for years after they both died, and it would have been these bad people hunting them down that made them disappear. And DH would have been literally out of the woods.

But then again, they might have been just trying toget as much money out of it as they possibly could.

I just think it's just important to respect each other's way of thinking. Everyone is valueable.
I tend to over analyse everything. Tend to find and connect stuff, most people had never even thought of. And it really isn't a bad thing for me if people tell me that my thoughts are highly unlikely, cause that would mean that I'm giving way to much credit to these perbs.

And sometimes even universal intelligence (or whatever you choose to call it), taps me on the shoulder

I confess, I never took the 'suitcase trown from a van by burglars' (by JaneSA?) seriously in any way.
Till I was driving 'my google streetview car' close to Karoonda highway (in fact it must be close to where the 'A sausage went for a walk' children's book was found, and whatta you know :hilarious::iamashamed:opcorn::justice::floorlaugh:

<modsnip>

 

[plongi]

Well condensed Panda. I would say the sister's place was very telling. If the cert was there then a bunch of other stuff would be too .. like where are Karlies possessions

Good question Puggle. Personally, I think the police would have found some evidence in the houses that they searched (specifically, the sister's). I remember them saying the searches were "very productive" or words to that effect. I also suspect they have credible witnesses who came forward. I remember also the police saying they had located people that they believed knew what had happened to Karlie and Khandalyce - once again, I don't remember exactly, but it was something along those lines - which made me think they found out a lot from someone who spilled the beans. I expect Daniel Holdom didn't have an alibi for the timeframe as well, plus the police information about him having previously been found to have Karlie's key card in his possession. They've probably got quite a list I would think. How much is hard evidence and how much is circumstantial is a matter only they know. But I feel quite confident they wouldn't have arrested him unless they had very good cause and are quite confident themselves. I note also that Daniel Holdom didn't co-operate, which to me is telling. If he was innocent, I would have thought he would want to make his case quite strongly, as well as apply for bail. But that's just my own personal take.

 

[plongi]

But they asked for more money

I don't think money. I believe the grandma becoming concerned about Karlie because her payments weren't being used is what motivated DH to use her accounts. He realised her not using the account drew suspicion so if he continued to use it grandma would believe all was well. My thoughts only.

 

[Bohemian]

Absolutely agree Bohemian and all other info that gives rise to my fears for Kandalyce are rumour or sub judice and against WS rules. Time will tell and I am sincerely hoping to be very very wrong.


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I share those fears, Wolfie, as we both know how real they may be. I'm not sure I ever want to hear the intimate details of Karlie's and Khandalyce's last experiences of life as I truly believe they will be horrific. I just want justice to be done and, I suspect, it's well on it's way, with a big kick in it's tail.

One thing I do remember is Des Bray saying the investigation was concentrating on Karlie's and Khandalyce's lives betwern 2006-08. I wonder if it's possible to do any sleuthing for that period or would it break WS' TOS?

 

[Wolfinator]

I just think it's just important to respect each other's way of thinking. Everyone is valueable.
I tend to over analyse everything. Tend to find and connect stuff, most people had never even thought of. And it really isn't a bad thing for me if people tell me that my thoughts are highly unlikely, cause that would mean that I'm giving way to much credit to these perbs.

And sometimes even universal intelligence (or whatever you choose to call it), taps me on the shoulder

I confess, I never took the 'suitcase trown from a van by burglars' (by JaneSA?) seriously in any way.
Till I was driving 'my google streetview car' close to Karoonda highway (in fact it must be close to where the 'A sausage went for a walk' children's book was found, and whatta you know :hilarious::iamashamed:opcorn::justice::floorlaugh:

<modsnip>

The length of time of the fraud could absolutely change its nature from cover up, to feeding a need for urgent cash to habit etc. I've often wondered - why hang on to identification (beyond being psychotic) with the risk seemingly so great?

But until recently perps lived in the secure world of Karlie being unidentified. And the web unraveled so quickly once the quilt and the DNA lined up (truly freakish and amazing) there wasn't the opportunity or practicality of disappearing the loose ends.

Grrrrrr sub judice means I can't discuss my belief for the timing of the recent disposal of Kandalyce by an accomplice. But I think the TIMING is definitely part of the puzzle.


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