AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce, Wynarka, Bones of a Child Discovered, July'15 - #3

[JLZ]

I thought the 5 and 10 were prices. 10 crossed out, discounted to 5--but what currency?

 

[AtaraMalka]

I'm a newbie so please be gentle, however I've been following this and the WT thread since their inception.
I'd just like to gauge the opinions of others on my thoughts on suitcase man.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it still appears that the sightings were after the suitcase was originally left in the tree.
My thoughts are that it was disposed of in haste (impending police interest maybe) and thrown from a vehicle at the spot which could be recognizable by the rock pile by a second person who would come along later.
This second person was then advised of the drop and he (suitcase man) then ventured out with his own larger suitcase in which to retrieve little Angel and the smaller suitcase. This would explain why he was seen on several occasions after the drop wandering aimlessly with a suitcase which didn't match the description of the discarded and faded one. Perhaps he was having difficulty locating the drop point.

Suitcase man may have been given the task to retrieve the suitcase and its contents and move to another location.
Alternatively suitcase man was being blackmailed and or outed for his own criminal activities and was simply trying to get to the evidence before anyone else came upon it.

Your thoughts.......

I think it's very interesting indeed what you're saying, but perhaps unnecessarily sophisticated?

Why assume there were two people involved? IF (capital I-F !) , for the sake of argument, suitcase man is indeed involved somehow, he could easily have planted the suitcase sometime prior to the two occasions on which he was witnessed in the town, without anyone noticing. It seems that he definitely took the trouble to make two trips that we know of - so why not a third? I'm just speculating of course, because there's nothing to suggest he was there more than twice - not as far as we know anyway.

I must admit I hadn't considered the fact that the suitcase the stranger was seen with was not reported as being especially faded or damaged, unlike the one on the highway, so thanks for the reminder of that. (Though if the suitcase was only left on the highway mid-March, after the roadworks had been completed, then possibly it was still reasonably in tact in April...not sure...)

Personally I feel that, again, IF suitcase man is involved, he may have been making a second /third trip to assess the state of play regarding the remains (i.e to see if they had been discovered), or to add more items from a second suitcase in the event that not all the items had fitted into the first (it does seem hard to imagine that so many items would fit into that small piece of hand luggage - and that's only the items we know about. Police have more items in their possession.)

My own gut feeling is that whoever left that suitcase by the side of the highway, a semi-public place, was doing so in order to call attention to it. So it could be that they were concerned that after a couple of months of having left it there, it was still unreported.

To address your idea that the man couldn't find the drop point, didn't suitcase man wander around the area for several hours on one of the days he was seen? I'm not familiar with the geography there but surely in several hours the suitcase could be relocated - unless it was in another part of the highway originally and a passer-by moved it...
And if there had been a pressing need to retrieve the suitcase and its contents, why leave 6 weeks between trips?

Just speculating of course and all IMO. Your idea about blackmail is intriguing - there is certainly more than one person who knows or suspects what has happened to this poor child so there must be a lot of scope for something like that.

 

[kiwi50]

The quilt must be the most important piece of evidence, it appears to be the only unique thing in the suitcase.
I think it is more important than suitcase man and all the other clothing.
Someone must know the history of this quilt, either the creator or people who saw it being made. Even if made by machine there must have been a lot of work and wouldn't most quilters show it off proudly to their friends.

 

[Kyja]

I'm beginning to the think the quilt was probably made and donated to charity by someone who has made loads of them. As previously mentioned this person could very well have passed away or be quite elderly and not really up on current news events etc.
I know we haven't seen all of the suitcase items but it strikes me as odd that so far we haven't seen any shoes besides one slipper or any socks or children's underwear. I also wonder if there was any personal effects like a hair brush or tooth brush.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I only mentioned the font name (used on the Sally tag) as to me it made the label look a bit amateurish - and yes you can order woven/embroidered tags yourself to use for either label children's property, or to attach to home made creations. Since the tags also state Made in China, neither of those scenarios apply unfortunately.

Regarding the H.F tag - that's really bugging me! I've been staring at the white, red and blue ribbons either side of the initials, trying to work out their significance if there is any. Plus the single full stop in between the H & F - why none at the end? The whole label looks like a bit of a mish mash really - if the kangaroo is to signify made in Australia (and note it doesn't actually say that), that symbol itself is not usually on the manufacturer or designer label is it? I'm suspecting that it's another knock off type item with a strange, faked label as well - probably produced overseas with the kangaroo and the word Australia just thrown in (and 100% Cotton for good measure) to make it appealing to Australians.
Don't get me started on the other Haolilu one ...

I have to tell you about my great researching which I'm very proud of :blushing: : I thought the squiggles below the H.F. could be Arabic script or something like that and I tried and tried and tried, found zero. Thankfully a WS member told me/us of the kangaroo symbol ................. :blushing: once more .....................

 

[catswhiskers]

I think it is the abbreviated form of a name. E.g. Harrison Ford would be abbreviated to H.F etc.

I think it stands for a name too - but the correct way to write initials would be H.F.

Sorry if this had been discussed, just catching up. I'm not understanding why people think there is not a period after the F? I see H.F. And possibly the fabric is bent up, so it appears a little smaller? I'm not sure this is really important to the case, but just wondered.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There isn't a fullstop (period) after the F though - see the placement of the one after the H? I know there is something under the middle bar of the F, but it's too high up and tucked under the F to be another fullstop, and it definitely doesn't match the position of the middle one anyway (to the right of the letter and in line with the bottom of the letters.

The police have asked for the public's help with information about these particular tags - that's why we are wondering about them. This H.F tag seems to be attached to shreds of fabric, so I'm guessing the garment isn't recognisable? We have to know what we are searching for - and nothing resembling H.F seems to be turning up. I've been wondering about other possibilities - e.g. maybe some of the F has unraveled and it was a P or an R even? I've not had any luck with those initials either though.

 

[Miss-e]

Possibly the child wore nappies. That Could be a reason why there was no underwear. A 2-3 year old it's not that uncommon to still have nappies but 4-5 much less likely.
We don't know what the other items are though and they could be singlets, underwear, shoes, socks. It does seem like lots of basics have been missing from what has been shown.

 

[Makara]

I'm still leaning toward the theory of randomly selected pieces of clothing with no real significance to the little girl.

Until you pointed it out, it never occurred to me there was nothing personal to a little girl in the items listed like teddies and dolls etc. How sad it would be if she never even had a cuddly to cherish My teenage daughter always travels with her favourite rag doll, I couldn't imagine a family holiday without the doll stuffed in to a travel bag!

What I was getting at with there not being any toys etc. in the suitcase is that it doesn't seem like it was packed to go away to visit family or friends. We now know that there were about 50 items in the case. Lots of stuff to cram into one small suitcase. Why? It seems that whoever did this wanted all trace of little Angel to disappear in one fell swoop. Murdered, gone, forgotten. Just tossed on the side the road in the middle of nowhere. I'm trying to understand the mindset of someone who would do this. What was their next move after dumping the suitcase? Why dump it along that particular road? Did they go on to murder again? It just seems so cold and callous. Most pets are treated better in death than this poor baby.

I keep thinking that it may have been jealousy and spite that caused the death of little Angel. An angry parent or step-parent who just wanted her out of the way for whatever sick reason.

It would put a whole different slant on things if the suitcase was stolen and dumped after the discovery of what it contained but it still wouldn't explain why anyone would murder this little girl. What type of person would do this?

 

[Makara]

Yeah, lots of harsh stuff during decomposition. Ammonium is another. Prolonged exposure to a lot of these substances would destroy fabric.

I'm also wondering if some of the damage to the quilt is from forensic testing. The images of the quilt weren't released immediately as were some of the clothing and it may have been undergoing forensic examination.

 

[Tricia]

Dear Websleuths Members,

Thank you for your amazing work.

In case you missed it our members were singled out for their work on this mystery by The Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hunt-suitcase-killer-mystery-little-girl.html

You all have proven what many of us have known for a long time: Everyone has something to offer a case. Everyone can jump in and help in their own way.

Excellent sleuthing going on with this case and great support from the members.

No longer can law enforcement from around the world can dismiss your work on Websleuths.

Sorry, I'm bawling and that makes it hard to think. I'm just so thrilled with how you have all come together for this little girl.

We adore our Aussie members and all those who participate in the Australian cases.

If there is ever anything I can do for your please do not hesitate to send me a private message or email me at websleuthscomments@gmail.com

Take Care,
Tricia

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Do you think that it would be more stained if it had been buried, especially if buried with a decomposing body or exposed to dirt. I don't know the answer to that, but guess that it would be quite dirty and the layers might be stuck together so that it wouldn't unfold. For the photo, I expect that it had been hardly touched in any way, other than unfolded.

I think because of the color of the patches rubbed off on the next layer of fabric during have been folded up, there had to be some humidity in the middle of the package. Otherwise the color wouldn't have rubbed of.

Further I think we first saw a complete quilt, later on police seems to have cut the quilt and we saw new pics of individual parts. At that point it was/is given also the possibility that we saw the items from another/maybe wrong perspective and may not realize the images.

 

[Bliss_Perth]

I'm beginning to the think the quilt was probably made and donated to charity by someone who has made loads of them. As previously mentioned this person could very well have passed away or be quite elderly and not really up on current news events etc.
I know we haven't seen all of the suitcase items but it strikes me as odd that so far we haven't seen any shoes besides one slipper or any socks or children's underwear. I also wonder if there was any personal effects like a hair brush or tooth brush.

Im thinking on the same lines as you regarding the quilt being made for charity, so much in fact.... I've looked at so many quilting blogs and group pages to try and match some of the fabrics used. I really think this quilt was made in a charity drive for quilts or the person was taught this technique in a workshop. If you disregard the alphabet quilt theory and look at the pieces of fabric we know of. Camels, bright colour stars, musical notes then some corn and sunflowers, pale blue butterfly's...on black a border....They don't really go together? I've seen a lot of mismatched fabrics used on larger quilts but not a quilt this size.



HeartKids SA provide many support services for families that have a child with ... by CHD at any stage of their journey, this includes our Heart Angel families. ... child goes to Melbourne for their first surgery receives a beautiful handmade quilt.


In 2012, quilters from across Australia joined forces to change the lives of people with disability or disadvantage. The Mystery Quilt Challenge this year saw over 600 people from all over Australia attend workshops or buy DIY kits where they followed instructions to produce a beautiful quilt - with no idea what it would look like until the last stitch was sewn.

South Australia quilters guild, from what ive read has been doing this amazing charity work for years. There is to many charity drives to mention but it gives you an idea of how many quilts get made and on what scale.






https://www.bedfordgroup.com.au/whats_on/past_events/bedford_mystery_quilt_challenge

 

[Bliss_Perth]

I'm also wondering if some of the damage to the quilt is from forensic testing. The images of the quilt weren't released immediately as were some of the clothing and it may have been undergoing forensic examination.

I think the quilt has just come apart easily because of the way the quilt was made, if your familiar with the way a hexagon star quilt is made they hexagons are placed onto paper backing... and the police also mentioned something distinct about the batting inside the quilt, some batting can't be sewn together easily on your at home machine. This could of accounted for why the quilt looks so deteriorated missing fabric because the paper backing from the hexagons has come away where it had been stitched together. And like you said Makara, we don't know if the hexies have been removed so they could be examined by forensics.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm still leaning toward the theory of randomly selected pieces of clothing with no real significance to the little girl.

Until you pointed it out, it never occurred to me there was nothing personal to a little girl in the items listed like teddies and dolls etc. How sad it would be if she never even had a cuddly to cherish My teenage daughter always travels with her favourite rag doll, I couldn't imagine a family holiday without the doll stuffed in to a travel bag!

Since I have found many offers fur used clothing on Alibaba.com which contain a whole set for a baby or toddler or woman/men (one offer was touted for including 50 pieces like the content of "our" suitcase) I also think the clothing maybe not related to the little girl and family.
The cheap sets are not sent but must be picked up in person at certain locations in different towns.
What if "our" set of clothing belonged to such a seller?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think the quilt has just come apart easily because of the way the quilt was made, if your familiar with the way a hexagon star quilt is made they hexagons are placed onto paper backing... and the police also mentioned something distinct about the batting inside the quilt, some batting can't be sewn together easily on your at home machine. This could of accounted for why the quilt looks so deteriorated missing fabric because the paper backing from the hexagons has come away where it had been stitched together. And like you said Makara, we don't know if the hexies have been removed so they could be examined by forensics.

I know quilting just by watching and getting told about (my mother). The quilter I know, has never used paper. Also was told the batting would be something like polyester so that the quilt would be washable (because it was made for a child). If paper would have been used, the quilt would no longer be washable, I think?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Im thinking on the same lines as you regarding the quilt being made for charity, so much in fact.... I've looked at so many quilting blogs and group pages to try and match some of the fabrics used. I really think this quilt was made in a charity drive for quilts or the person was taught this technique in a workshop. If you disregard the alphabet quilt theory and look at the pieces of fabric we know of. Camels, bright colour stars, musical notes then some corn and sunflowers, pale blue butterfly's...on black a border....They don't really go together? I've seen a lot of mismatched fabrics used on larger quilts but not a quilt this size.



HeartKids SA provide many support services for families that have a child with ... by CHD at any stage of their journey, this includes our Heart Angel families. ... child goes to Melbourne for their first surgery receives a beautiful handmade quilt.


In 2012, quilters from across Australia joined forces to change the lives of people with disability or disadvantage. The Mystery Quilt Challenge this year saw over 600 people from all over Australia attend workshops or buy DIY kits where they followed instructions to produce a beautiful quilt - with no idea what it would look like until the last stitch was sewn.

South Australia quilters guild, from what ive read has been doing this amazing charity work for years. There is to many charity drives to mention but it gives you an idea of how many quilts get made and on what scale.

View attachment 79744

View attachment 79745


https://www.bedfordgroup.com.au/whats_on/past_events/bedford_mystery_quilt_challenge

That's a wonderful hobby and very generous to make a difficult quilt for some unknown other people. But honestly I don't know at all why a quilt would be a help to needy families. I also don't know whether these families will appreciate it. What does a little child with a 90x90 quilt? For wrapping too small and too large to carry around, I would think.
Btw: I own several little quilts for my not existing grandchilds (the quilts are in a suitcase and completely unused, waiting for a possibility to use them). Very pretty (!!), but somehow impractical.

 

[Riggaby]

Hi, I've just been searching haolilu and found this clothing co in China, http://www.chinaland.cc/company-haolilu-garments-dongguan-384
They don't seem to have any description of what type of clothing but do have a contact, apologies if this has already been posted previously

So I've just realised the brand Name I searched for is incorrect
Please ignore lol

 

[Confusion]

I think the quilt has just come apart easily because of the way the quilt was made, if your familiar with the way a hexagon star quilt is made they hexagons are placed onto paper backing... and the police also mentioned something distinct about the batting inside the quilt, some batting can't be sewn together easily on your at home machine. This could of accounted for why the quilt looks so deteriorated missing fabric because the paper backing from the hexagons has come away where it had been stitched together. And like you said Makara, we don't know if the hexies have been removed so they could be examined by forensics.

Sorry, I know this is a dumb question. They look more like octagons than hexagons, would those be made the same way? (I don't sew and know nothing about quilting.) TIA

 

[Bliss_Perth]

I know quilting just by watching and getting told about (my mother). The quilter I know, has never used paper. Also was told the batting would be something like polyester so that the quilt would be washable (because it was made for a child). If paper would have been used, the quilt would no longer be washable, I think?

Your'e right a lot of quilters don't use paper, but it is quite common for hexie patterns, it can give the quilt more stability and make it easier to sew together.

You can buy rolls of wash away applique paper that soften over time, once you have cut out your hexie you iron over your fabric and corners.... When i looked at pictures of the quilt, some of the fabrics look very stiff, like the quilt hadn't been washed and the applique paper had bonded with the fabric.

And the polyester filling is commonly used, but i remember the detective saying there was something distinct about this batting. Im not sure what he meant by that, he didn't elaborate any more.

 

[Freddo Frog]

What I was getting at with there not being any toys etc. in the suitcase is that it doesn't seem like it was packed to go away to visit family or friends. We now know that there were about 50 items in the case. Lots of stuff to cram into one small suitcase. Why? It seems that whoever did this wanted all trace of little Angel to disappear in one fell swoop. Murdered, gone, forgotten. Just tossed on the side the road in the middle of nowhere. I'm trying to understand the mindset of someone who would do this. What was their next move after dumping the suitcase? Why dump it along that particular road? Did they go on to murder again? It just seems so cold and callous. Most pets are treated better in death than this poor baby.

I keep thinking that it may have been jealousy and spite that caused the death of little Angel. An angry parent or step-parent who just wanted her out of the way for whatever sick reason.

It would put a whole different slant on things if the suitcase was stolen and dumped after the discovery of what it contained but it still wouldn't explain why anyone would murder this little girl. What type of person would do this?

Exactly, which is why I am still of the opinion that the items of clothing are just random things thrown in.

You'd think that if all traces were to be erased of the little girl then why not pad the case out with a big plain sheet rather than a bunch of clothes that can possibly be traced? I wonder why that road, too. Is there a significance or was it just convenience?

The SALLY label item of clothing - I am sure I bought my daughter some pjs with that same label years ago from Crazy Clarks, if not pjs it would have been a t-shirt. Either way, they were very cheap. We don't have Crazy Clarks here now, they all went broke, so I don't know if they can be easily traced back to a particular store.