AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce, Wynarka, Bones of a Child Discovered, July'15 - #3

[JaneSA]

Thanks Jane. What font is that? It looks very close to the font on the label. This may also be of interest to police.

Jokerman font, but as Catswhiskers said, it's very common.

There is something distinctly home-made about that logo and like others, I am thinking Chinese knock-offs.

 

[Makara]

Hey JaneSA, do you have Office and Word on your computer? The reason I mentioned earlier that I thought it could be a homemade type brand (which isn't correct seeing other labels found have also said 'Made in China') is because the tag is typed in the font called 'Jokerman' which I believe is one of the standard fonts in the Office suite. In my experience, kids love mucking around with this font when they want something to look fun or fancy.
Here I've just typed Sally using the jokerman font in a word document, both in black and in colour:
View attachment 79693

Thanks Catwhiskers. I do remember now that you mentioned the name of this font upthread. It's a common font and I have it installed on my computer. Even used it a few times. The Sally label looks like it is woven or machine made, which is easy enough to do with computerised sewing machines. I don't think the name of the font is going to lead anywhere but who knows and it's just one more thing to tick off the list.

 

[jigzy]

This is how labelling works in MASS market manufacturing - I am a fashion designer with years of experience in the UK. Not sure if this is the same in Australia, but I would guess so:

1) Designer (who works for a manufacturing company) designs garment and sample is made in the design studio and put in the showroom. The label put in at this stage is the manufacturing company's label, e.g. 'Young Fashion Manufacturer'.

2) A store group, let's say 'Big High Street Store', visits the showroom and wants 1000 of these made, so the manufacturing company gets a factory to make these. This may NOT be their own factory (as in owned by them) but is likely to be one they work with regularly. 'Big High Street Store' provides their OWN labels to go into the garments - this can be 'Big High Street Store' or another identifiable label associated with the store, let's say 'Young Miss'.

3) The factory making the garments will sometimes try to get more garments out of the fabric provided - by being economical with the layout when mass cutting. These EXTRAS are called CABBAGE, and neither Young Fashion Manufacturer or Big High Street Store know about these extras, which will be sold at outlets such as market stalls, on the cheap with a label that the dodgy factory uses - this can be a label the factory gets from anywhere, off the shelf, or could even be a label from another manufacturer they work for. Essentially any label is needed and an unscrupulous factory will put any one in so that the goods can be sold off.

So with the above scenario, the same garments can exist with the label of the manufacturing company, the big store, and any label used by an unscrupulous factory. That's THREE different labels. Whilst the first 2 labels are relatively easy to trace back to source, the last one is very difficult to trace back, and that is deliberately so, making it hard to trace dodgy trading on the factory's part. The factory can deny all knowledge.

So essentially, what I am saying is that if the labels are not recognised as a manufacturer's or store group's, then it is likely that these garments were passed from dodgy factory to dodgy stallholder. The source and outlet may never be traced as the stall trader would not own up to being guilty of buying stolen goods (as essentially the fabric was not owned by the factory).

The above is my own opinion based on my own experience of the mass market in the world of fashion. (An alternative is that 1 and 2 are the same company so that cuts out one label, but essentially, the factory stage is where I can see a problem in identifying the source and outlet). I saw some of my own designs on a market stall once, with a false label in, and confronted the stallholder who denied all knowledge, but within a few minutes had removed the goods back into his van. He knew he was in the wrong. Someone like this would be unlikely to willingly come forward with information in the Wynarka case, IMO.

If I were a detective, I would be looking at the care label in the SIDE SEAM of the garments as this is where the unique manufacturer code is situated. That, IMO, is more telling if the centre back label is not recognised.

Sorry to ramble on. I hope the above makes sense.

 

[Makara]

This is how labelling works in MASS market manufacturing - I am a fashion designer with years of experience in the UK. Not sure if this is the same in Australia, but I would guess so:

1) Designer (who works for a manufacturing company) designs garment and sample is made in the design studio and put in the showroom. The label put in at this stage is the manufacturing company's label, e.g. 'Young Fashion Manufacturer'.

2) A store group, let's say 'Big High Street Store', visits the showroom and wants 1000 of these made, so the manufacturing company gets a factory to make these. This may NOT be their own factory (as in owned by them) but is likely to be one they work with regularly. 'Big High Street Store' provides their OWN labels to go into the garments - this can be 'Big High Street Store' or another identifiable label associated with the store, let's say 'Young Miss'.

3) The factory making the garments will sometimes try to get more garments out of the fabric provided - by being economical with the layout when mass cutting. These EXTRAS are called CABBAGE, and neither Young Fashion Manufacturer or Big High Street Store know about these extras, which will be sold at outlets such as market stalls, on the cheap with a label that the dodgy factory uses - this can be a label the factory gets from anywhere, off the shelf, or could even be a label from another manufacturer they work for. Essentially any label is needed and an unscrupulous factory will put any one in so that the goods can be sold off.

So with the above scenario, the same garments can exist with the label of the manufacturing company, the big store, and any label used by an unscrupulous factory. That's THREE different labels. Whilst the first 2 labels are relatively easy to trace back to source, the last one is very difficult to trace back, and that is deliberately so, making it hard to trace dodgy trading on the factory's part. The factory can deny all knowledge.

So essentially, what I am saying is that if the labels are not recognised as a manufacturer's or store group's, then it is likely that these garments were passed from dodgy factory to dodgy stallholder. The source and outlet may never be traced as the stall trader would not own up to being guilty of buying stolen goods (as essentially the fabric was not owned by the factory).

The above is my own opinion based on my own experience of the mass market in the world of fashion. (An alternative is that 1 and 2 are the same company so that cuts out one label, but essentially, the factory stage is where I can see a problem in identifying the source and outlet). I saw some of my own designs on a market stall once, with a false label in, and confronted the stallholder who denied all knowledge, but within a few minutes had removed the goods back into his van. He knew he was in the wrong. Someone like this would be unlikely to willingly come forward with information in the Wynarka case, IMO.

If I were a detective, I would be looking at the care label in the SIDE SEAM of the garments as this is where the unique manufacturer code is situated. That, IMO, is more telling if the centre back label is not recognised.

Sorry to ramble on. I hope the above makes sense.

Very helpful. Thank you jigzy and I agree, the care label, usually found on one of the inside seams, is where the more pertinent information about the manufacturer will be found. If any of the care labels are still legible, these are what the police should be releasing to the public along with the labels.

 

[catswhiskers]

Interesting - thanks jigzy.
I guess in this case the most important thing is where this child or their carer at the time bought the clothing. It would be a bonus to find that a particular label had only been available from one or a few local sources. That's why the Cotton On tutu seems a good lead for police - with any luck they can narrow down the source of that item. Even 28 sales in SA seems a traceable number to start with - maybe some names to cross reference with other info. I wonder if they've had many calls about that tutu - I'm sure there would even be mums out there who would distinctly remember if they had put one in a charity bin or given it away to someone.

 

[Makara]

LAST WARNING.

I have posted as least three warnings about discussing the post on the SAPOL Facebook page regarding women's underwear. There has been no mention of this in MSM or by the police and there may be a very good reason for this. In the meantime it is classed as a rumour and does not belong here.

To date the only Facebook pages permitted in this discussion are those of the police and approved main stream media outlets. Please familiarise yourselves with Websleuth's rules and Terms of Service.

Continuing to ignore the rules will result in a time out.

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[Bliss_Perth]

the miss x clothing label looks like it comes from here....

http://www.exporters.sg/member_profile.asp?co_id=3392

http://www.yellowpages.com.au/nsw/s...=www.google.com.au&context=businessTypeSearch

 

[Makara]

the miss x clothing label looks like it comes from here....

http://www.exporters.sg/member_profile.asp?co_id=3392

http://www.yellowpages.com.au/nsw/s...=www.google.com.au&context=businessTypeSearch

Thanks Bliss_Perth. I can't see an email address anywhere there.

 

[AtaraMalka]

This sad case certainly keeps on looking more and more like a family murder, with a large collection of clothes being accumulated over a period of time, presumably by a parent or relative. A kidnapper would not really need to acquire so many items, particularly if the child was being kept hidden from public view a lot of the time.

Re the child's age:

I wonder if there were any baby clothes in the suitcase? If the person who buried the child initially - assuming that is what happened - included all the child's clothes in order to conceal evidence of that child, then perhaps there are baby clothes there as well. Otherwise, where would they be?

I also wondered if the collection of clothes we are seeing can tell us more about the girl's age, not only in respect to the size labels. If she were only 2 or 2 1/2, for example, she wouldn't be that long out of baby clothes. Would so many little girl's - as opposed to baby - clothes have been accumulated within that short time-frame? And again, where would the recently-used baby clothes be?

It seems to me that the child was probably nearer 4 or 5 years old, with an accumulation of girl's clothes behind her, the baby clothes having been long-discarded....just a guess at this point.

 

[Karo]

Can I just ask a question please regarding SAPOL fb page, is that not an official South Aus police page? It took me a while to work out what SAPOL was, lol, have been seeing and hearing it all week.

LAST WARNING.

I have posted as least three warnings about discussing the post on the SAPOL Facebook page regarding women's underwear. There has been no mention of this in MSM or by the police and there may be a very good reason for this. In the meantime it is classed as a rumour and does not belong here.

To date the only Facebook pages permitted in this discussion are those of the police and approved main stream media outlets. Please familiarise yourselves with Websleuth's rules and Terms of Service.

Continuing to ignore the rules will result in a time out.

Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Terms of Service - Long, Detailed Version

Terms of Service - Short, Plain Language Version

 

[Bliss_Perth]

Sorry if this is already posted but i couldnt find anything....

the HF label could be related to this company... http://www.ipmonitor.com.au/trademarks/case/754241

http://www.trademarkify.com.au/list...td PO Box 3164 STAFFORD BC QLD 4053 AUSTRALIA


I remember the brightbots kids clothing from years ago, havent seen it around in a while. They might of used the name HF on labels years ago because that design looks really old.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Jokerman font, but as Catswhiskers said, it's very common.

There is something distinctly home-made about that logo and like others, I am thinking Chinese knock-offs.

http://www.alibaba.com/premium/woven_garment_labels/11.html?spm=a2700.7735675.16.10.MoiSn4

You can buy woven labels and others in huge selection if you would need.
I wonder if a company buys used clothing (see the next link) whether they would sew new fantasy labels onto the garment or not?
http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=...MoBEK0DMEI4vAVqFQoTCLKV9NXtm8cCFQRH2wodBOIHMg

 

[Wishiwasadetective]

Can I just ask a question please regarding SAPOL fb page, is that not an official South Aus police page? It took me a while to work out what SAPOL was, lol, have been seeing and hearing it all week.

Hi Karo, the SA police news FB page is administrated by SAPOL (South Australian Police) So is an official police page. Not sure if this is the page being referred to or not 😀

 

[amysoyka]

Thats the official "made in australia" kangroo logo on the H.F label.

Here is a list of all registered childrens clothing places on their register:

australianmade.com.au/search/?type=products&categories=472,333,488,414,500,489,413,465,416,417,414,415,342

1,600+ of them.

Wouldn't it be worthwhile to call them, as they could probably identify brands more quickly and esier?

 

[Wishiwasadetective]

Thats the official "made in australia" kangroo logo on the H.F label.

Here is a list of all registered childrens clothing places on their register:

australianmade.com.au/search/?type=products&categories=472,333,488,414,500,489,413,465,416,417,414,415,342

1,600+ of them.

Wouldn't it be worthwhile to call them, as they could probably identify brands more quickly and esier?

The made in Australia logo is a bit different although it still features a kangaroo http://australianmade.com.au/why-buy-australian-made/about-the-logo/

 

[catswhiskers]

I only mentioned the font name (used on the Sally tag) as to me it made the label look a bit amateurish - and yes you can order woven/embroidered tags yourself to use for either label children's property, or to attach to home made creations. Since the tags also state Made in China, neither of those scenarios apply unfortunately.

Regarding the H.F tag - that's really bugging me! I've been staring at the white, red and blue ribbons either side of the initials, trying to work out their significance if there is any. Plus the single full stop in between the H & F - why none at the end? The whole label looks like a bit of a mish mash really - if the kangaroo is to signify made in Australia (and note it doesn't actually say that), that symbol itself is not usually on the manufacturer or designer label is it? I'm suspecting that it's another knock off type item with a strange, faked label as well - probably produced overseas with the kangaroo and the word Australia just thrown in (and 100% Cotton for good measure) to make it appealing to Australians.
Don't get me started on the other Haolilu one ...

 

[bessie]

Can I just ask a question please regarding SAPOL fb page, is that not an official South Aus police page? It took me a while to work out what SAPOL was, lol, have been seeing and hearing it all week.

You can reference posts made by the admin of SAPOL page. The rest of it, comments from the general public, are considered "rumor". Anyone can have a FB profile and post whatever they please. There's no accountability, and no means to verify whether or not their statements are true.

We do our best to ensure information posted on WS is accurate, and that requires omitting social media rumors and gossip.

 

[musicaljoke]

I don't know why the yellow rows of stitches are NOT burned - IF the quilt was burned at all.

View attachment 79095

It's a very odd type of damage. I tend to think that it's not burned. If it had been burned, I don't think that we would see what looks like shredded fibres; eg. the camel piece which look torn. We'd see more burned edge lines, rather than what looks like complete disintegration.

It's not sun damage, nor insect or mouse damage. It doesn't look like simple mould or mildew. It's not bleach damage, and probably not mechanical damage, although it looks as though the quilt has been cut in half.

I wonder if it is chemical damage. It looks to me like sulphuric acid damage, which eats cotton completely, or makes it look ash-like and burned. It doesn't harm polyester in the same way, so the quilt batt, the thread, and one of the fabrics seem untouched.

Some household cleaning products, like drain cleaner, or toilet bowl cleaner, contain sulphuric acid. Could the quilt have been used as a cleaning rag?

http://www.academia.edu/7131115/High-yield_carbonization_of_cellulose_by_sulfuric_acid_impregnation


"The dehydrating effects of sulfuric acid explain its reactions with many common organic materials. It will remove hydrogen and oxygen from molecules that contain these elements in the 2:1 ratio found in the water molecule (H2O) — for example, carbohydrates — which include sugars, starch and cellulose. Sulfuric acid will react with carbohydrates to remove the hydrogen and oxygen, leaving behind carbon. A well known laboratory demonstration illustrates this; concentrated sulfuric acid is added to sucrose table sugar in a beaker and quickly converts it to a mass of charcoal, with a good deal of heat produced. This is the reason that sulfuric acid chars wood and paper — substances which consist mainly of carbohydrates [including cotton]".

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-effects-of-sulfuric-acid.htm

 

[reasypeasy]

Whenever I see black staining I think silver nitrate. IDK what that does to fabric over several years though.

 

[Karo]

Thank you, that makes sense.

You can reference posts made by the admin of SAPOL page. The rest of it, comments from the general public, are considered "rumor". Anyone can have a FB profile and post whatever they please. There's no accountability, and no means to verify whether or not their statements are true.

We do our best to ensure information posted on WS is accurate, and that requires omitting social media rumors and gossip.