Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3

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Post in accordance with Websleuths TOS, and that includes not blaming, disparaging, or casting aspersions at victims or other innocent individuals who have not been officially named as a POI or suspect in this case.
 
Just bringing this response to my post from @jepop forward from thread #2:

Just re the kids being potentially interviewed, Imo it wouldn't be legal for police to interview either child without a parent or if not parent, an approved guardian present.At the very least the permission of a legal guardian would be required. Moo

Good observation. I’m assuming EP would in fact give permission once they were removed, because it’s the cooperative response, and it would seem suspect to not allow it. Some sort of advocate or liaison for the minors would be present during questioning, I’m certain.
 
Bringing foreword from Thread #2:
EE19D7AB-A7D3-488F-B228-8395471A4340.jpeg

@Salah11
That is how I view it.

EP told police these mushrooms had been bought at an Asian produce store months ago. She was very firm regarding that information.

I tend to think if you had some fear your child had made a mistake, you’d be forthcoming with that sort of information.
 
Bringing foreword from Thread #2:
View attachment 441895

@Salah11
That is how I view it.
EP told police these mushrooms had been bought at an Asian produce store months ago. She was very firm regarding that information.

I tend to think if you had some fear your child had made a mistake, you’d be forthcoming with that sort of information.


100% because it takes suspicion away from herself.


She has openly admitted her ex husband asked if that’s how she poisoned them so clearly she knows she is in deep trouble and so if the Mushrooms were not shop brought I am positive she would of mentioned it by now.


Imo
 
Just bringing this response to my post from @jepop forward from thread #2:

Just re the kids being potentially interviewed, Imo it wouldn't be legal for police to interview either child without a parent or if not parent, an approved guardian present.At the very least the permission of a legal guardian would be required. Moo

Good observation. I’m assuming EP would in fact give permission once they were removed, because it’s the cooperative response, and it would seem suspect to not allow it. Some sort of advocate or liaison for the minors would be present during questioning, I’m certain.
Right, makes sense. Perhaps as we now know they were removed from EP's care as a precaution they could potentially be staying with the dad, or other relatives or even friends. But I think you're right, in the case of a precautionary removal permission would still likely be required from the parents (not sure if both or if one would suffice). You'd definately hope that EP would be co-operative and I agree that she probably would have been, though that is Moo.
 

The success of a foraging expedition depends on finding mushrooms, and being able to differentiate the edible from the toxic varieties. That’s not always easy and even experienced foragers can make mistakes.
bbm Do you have any links to verify this?
My brother is the mushroom picker in my family, and it seriously scares me he could accidentally poison the rest of us (and himself).
I trust him so I eat them. Maybe not anymore :oops:
 
100% because it takes suspicion away from herself.


She has openly admitted her ex husband asked if that’s how she poisoned them so clearly she knows she is in deep trouble and so if the Mushrooms were not shop brought I am positive she would of mentioned it by now.


Imo
Absolutely.
She could say she was trying to protect the children, but 1. How could you be so careless as to allow them to make a mistake and 2. If an honest mistake, there would be no reason to fear charges, I assume.
MOO
 
bbm Do you have any links to verify this?
My brother is the mushroom picker in my family, and it seriously scares me he could accidentally poison the rest of us (and himself).
I trust him so I eat them. Maybe not anymore :oops:
I can see why you would now have misgivings. I’m not as comfortable even with store-bought produce mushrooms, although I’m aware it’s somewhat irrational.
 
Right, makes sense. Perhaps as we now know they were removed from EP's care as a precaution they could potentially be staying with the dad, or other relatives or even friends. But I think you're right, in the case of a precautionary removal permission would still likely be required from the parents (not sure if both or if one would suffice). You'd definately hope that EP would be co-operative and I agree that she probably would have been, though that is Moo.
I suppose we don’t know right now whether they have been returned to family care (not necessarily with the mother). I imagine they wouldn’t release updates on the children’s whereabouts generally, for obvious reasons.
 

The success of a foraging expedition depends on finding mushrooms, and being able to differentiate the edible from the toxic varieties. That’s not always easy and even experienced foragers can make mistakes.
In France, pharmacists are trained to recognise mushroom types and you can take any foraged finds to a chemist for ID. Precisely for this reason!
 
bbm Do you have any links to verify this?

The article is authored by

Darren Roberts
Conjoint Associate Professor in clinical pharmacology and toxicology, St Vincent’s Healthcare Clinical Campus, UNSW Sydney


Disclosure statement
Darren Roberts is the Medical Director of the NSW Poisons Information Centre



 
Like many here, in cases like this, where my assumption is guilt, I always like to try and come up a plausible opposite narrative of innocence too. It’s certainly tricky with what we have so far!
But perhaps something like:

The suspect is preparing beef wellington. Realises she under-bought on the button mushrooms, and has no time to go and buy more. No problem - she has those dried ones in the cupboard she bought at an Asian grocer a while back! Rehydrates them and adds to the mix.
Lunch is served.

Her guests, who are all significantly more elderly and lower BMI than her all succumb very quickly. She only suffers mild sickness - perhaps somehow related to those two factors (older people’s health and organs are generally less resilient; BMI may have some impact on toxin levels?) or she eats less of the wellington than them for some other reason (on a diet or similar).

The kids eat the leftovers with the mushrooms removed because they are, like me, grossed out by eating fungus in any form and insist on it all being scraped off.

Some time later when everyone is hospitalised the doctors report it is suspected mushroom poisoning. At this point she starts to doubt the provenance of the dried mushrooms she used. *Were* they the Asian grocer ones she’d had, or could these be ones they had foraged some time ago? Now she’s not so sure.
Kids ask along similar lines and Dad overhears and makes the documented “is that how you poisoned them?” comment. Suspect panics, as she says, and in her wild panic irrationally thinks that removing evidence of any accidental poison mushrooms from her home will somehow exonerate her. Dumps the dehydrator and sticks with the story as she thought it was, prior to the sicknesses - that she was just using up some dried mushrooms from the grocer’s. Because that, in her mind, was the version of events where she was ‘innocent’.


It’s sort of possible, but for me I struggle to come up with any narrative that doesn’t involve the remarkable coincidence of neither her nor her kids eating (much of) the poisoned shrooms. Unless age really is a protective factor in mushroom poisoning, which so far I’ve found no evidence to suggest.

I’d be interested to hear anyone else’s attempt at a reasonable narrative of innocence!
 
Absolutely.
She could say she was trying to protect the children, but 1. How could you be so careless as to allow them to make a mistake and 2. If an honest mistake, there would be no reason to fear charges, I assume.
MOO
I would guess, regardless, she wouldn’t be feeding the kids leftovers the next day.
 
I used to forage for mushrooms quite a bit as a teen. It's not that difficult to figure out which ones are poisonous and which ones are not. Regardless, she isn't claiming she foraged. Her story is that she purchased mushrooms. And purchases mushrooms are commercially grown mushrooms. So death cup is not going to be in commercially grown product. She claims she purchased dried mushrooms, but she can't say exactly where. She saved the meal for analysis (she is being very helpful) but through away a dehydrator and lied about it to the police. Basically, her story is full of holes and red flags. I don't believe in innocent mistake here.
 
I used to forage for mushrooms quite a bit as a teen. It's not that difficult to figure out which ones are poisonous and which ones are not. Regardless, she isn't claiming she foraged. Her story is that she purchased mushrooms. And purchases mushrooms are commercially grown mushrooms. So death cup is not going to be in commercially grown product. She claims she purchased dried mushrooms, but she can't say exactly where. Basically, her story is full of holes.


That’s it don’t understand why people are claiming they are foraged as she has never once claimed that as her story.
 
I suppose we don’t know right now whether they have been returned to family care (not necessarily with the mother). I imagine they wouldn’t release updates on the children’s whereabouts generally, for obvious reasons.
Yes very much agree, though I'm not sure what precisely was meant when police announced the children had been "removed as a precaution"?- I took that as removed from EP's care given that she is a POI/suspect. If that is what occurred (my best guess) they may never have gone into state care at all, but instead could have been staying with other family (if they exist) or the dad or even good friends. I agree with a poster on previous thread who pointed out that it would be important the children are in a supportive, safe (both emotionally and physically) environment and protected from media scrutiny. I'm glad we are not reading anything about where the children are. Moo
 
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