Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3

[JLZ]

I bought some mushrooms this week, supporting local growers.

I wonder how many steaks/fillets she had bought recently?...

I buy complete fillets and cut them myself for the size I want. (So one fillet doesn't mean one beef wellington.)

 

[LacieL]

I been eating Mushroom this week, I like to live dangerously (Sometimes)

This case it seems has had a big negative impact on the Australian mushroom industry.

As an aside. I intervened at a playground this week when a child, maybe 3, was chomping down on a mushroom growing out of the playground mulch! The kid had definitely eaten some. The parents were not phased. Maybe they don’t watch the news .

 

[Ellery84]

This case it seems has had a big negative impact on the Australian mushroom industry.

Do you have a source for this? I haven’t specifically read any data on this.

Moo

 

[SouthAussie]

This case it seems has had a big negative impact on the Australian mushroom industry.

The Herald Sun says otherwise .... (quoted in this article)


GIPPSLAND mushroom grower, Josef Sestokas of Flooding Creek Fungi at Sale, is concerned the alleged mushroom poisoning incident at Leongatha, which left three people dead and another fighting for his life, may have already had a negative impact on the $460 million-a-year Australian mushroom industry.

However, an article in the Herald-Sun this week suggests there’s been a “surprising” uplift in sales of mushrooms at supermarket checkouts as people are reminded of the “natural superfood” qualities of mushrooms.

‘Absolutely’ nothing wrong with our mushrooms, they say - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

GIPPSLAND mushroom grower, Josef Sestokas of Flooding Creek Fungi at Sale, is concerned the alleged mushroom poisoning incident at Leongatha, which left three people dead and another fighting for his life, may have already had a negative impact on...

www.sgst.com.au

Speaking for my family, we regularly eat mushrooms. My family loves them. Always store-bought and grown under strictly regulated conditions. I have not changed my mushroom-buying habits.

 

[jjleroche]

Just watching that video and some good points raised that there would be a slight difference in reactions to each individual person and age , fitness and so on would play a part.


But we can see she is definitely over weight and doesn’t look like a gym bunny and she isn’t exactly young so it shouldn’t make that much of a difference if she had ingested the same meal as her other guests.



Mooo

Could Body Mass Index affect the severity of symptoms? I suspect that it may - higher BMI possibly reducing symptoms of poisoning symptoms IMO. I've tried to find an answer (unsuccessfully so far.)

From a casual glance, I imagine (ICBW) that all four victims would have been within the normal/ideal range (terminology varies depending on which chart is being viewed). EP's BMI appears to be significantly different from a cursory glance.

Here's a link to a BMI chart - please note that chart uses cms and kgs. Apologies for the ads etc which accompany this link.

The importance of knowing your Body Mass Index (BMI) | Chatswood Medical & Dental Centre

The importance of knowing your Body Mass Index (BMI)

www.chatswoodmedicalanddental.com.au

 

[JLZ]

Could Body Mass Index affect the severity of symptoms? I suspect that it may - higher BMI possibly reducing symptoms of poisoning symptoms IMO. I've tried to find an answer (unsuccessfully so far.)

From a casual glance, I imagine (ICBW) that all four victims would have been within the normal/ideal range (terminology varies depending on which chart is being viewed). EP's BMI appears to be significantly different from a cursory glance.

Here's a link to a BMI chart - please note that chart uses cms and kgs. Apologies for the ads etc which accompany this link.

The importance of knowing your Body Mass Index (BMI) | Chatswood Medical & Dental Centre

The importance of knowing your Body Mass Index (BMI)

www.chatswoodmedicalanddental.com.au

From what I've read, the toxic effect is relative to absolute body mass not BMI. If so a child would suffer more than an adult from a smaller dose.
The lethal dose of amanita toxin is 0.1 mg/kg body weight

Amanita phalloides - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[JLZ]

Could Body Mass Index affect the severity of symptoms? I suspect that it may - higher BMI possibly reducing symptoms of poisoning symptoms IMO. I've tried to find an answer (unsuccessfully so far.)

From a casual glance, I imagine (ICBW) that all four victims would have been within the normal/ideal range (terminology varies depending on which chart is being viewed). EP's BMI appears to be significantly different from a cursory glance.

Here's a link to a BMI chart - please note that chart uses cms and kgs. Apologies for the ads etc which accompany this link.

The importance of knowing your Body Mass Index (BMI) | Chatswood Medical & Dental Centre

The importance of knowing your Body Mass Index (BMI)

www.chatswoodmedicalanddental.com.au

And this from the DM about the mechanism of toxicity was interesting I thought:

'What gets eliminated by the kidneys if they are working is exactly the amount of poison that goes in, as it undergoes no transformation whatsoever in the body.
'When you eat these mushrooms, the poison gets very rapidly absorbed and passes through the cells that line the gastrointestinal tract and into the portal blood supply which goes to the liver.
'When you eat a fatty meal, the gall bladder contracts to place bile into your intestine to break down the fat, and bile acids are very highly conserved and recycled over and over, every meal.
'Every time the gall bladder contracts and these bile acids get into the blood supply, and the liver cells will suck bile acids out of the portal blood and into the liver.
'The problem is amatoxin effectively attaches to these receptors on the liver cell and gets transported into the liver cell as if it was a bile acid ... the liver pulls in the Amatoxin out of the portal blood supply and this happens over and over again.
'Every next meal this is happening like a brand new poisoning by the amatoxin and if you aren't expelling the poison via your kidneys because they are working because you are massively hydrated, your liver dies.'

Death cap mushrooms: how fast you die from a tiny bit and the cure

A world Death Cap mushroom poison expert has revealed how its poison, Amatoxin, kills people even in tiny amounts, and how it is possible to save anyone who has ingested it.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I don't see a role for the body's fat stores here but I've no relevant expertise.

 

[LacieL]

Do you have a source for this? I haven’t specifically read any data on this.

Just the guys at my local farm stall. They resell locally grown mushrooms. Maybe it’s specific to those varieties which are more exotic? Maybe they are trying to convince me to buy mushrooms via pity. Ha.

 

[Ellery84]

Credit/ The Daily Mail. Author: Candace Sutton

“A strange detail on mushroom chef Erin Patterson's hands that no-one spotted before now shows two injuries to the middle finger of her right hand.”


“Two healing cuts are visible on the 48-year-old's hand in separate filmed interviews in the driveway of her home on Monday, August 7, nine days after she hosted the fatal beef Wellington lunch inside the house at Leongatha, in Victoria's South Gippsland.”


Eerie detail in photo of mushroom cook that no one noticed until now

 

[DeDee]

5 or 6 steaks maybe?

All imo

Individual packets or envelopes of Beef Wellington would be atypical, esp for a guest list of 4, plus the host and 2 children. That is 7 servings + leftovers.

Typically, due to the time consuming nature of the recipe, the cook purchases one or two nice single beef tenderloins. Due to its tenderness, humans love it but the tenderloin has a bland taste, w/o fat, that we enhance with pate', sauteed mushrooms, and other spices to make it aromatic, flavorful and taste delicious. After it is baked for the BW, it is sliced like one slices a loaf of bread w a serrated knife. iirc, A sample slicing of the Beef Wellington is in this video.

The AU Case begins around 57:30 mark

 

[DeDee]

Credit/ The Daily Mail. Author: Candace Sutton

“A strange detail on mushroom chef Erin Patterson's hands that no-one spotted before now shows two injuries to the middle finger of her right hand.”


“Two healing cuts are visible on the 48-year-old's hand in separate filmed interviews in the driveway of her home on Monday, August 7, nine days after she hosted the fatal beef Wellington lunch inside the house at Leongatha, in Victoria's South Gippsland.”


Eerie detail in photo of mushroom cook that no one noticed until now

• Mushroom chef Erin Patterson had visible cuts on her right middle finger
• Filmed with cuts to middle and around nail bed of same finger
• Cuts visible 9 days after fatal Beef Wellington lunch
• Later said she'd dumped mushroom dryer at local tip

edited to add it is odd that there is no story here
the victims were not stabbed to death
any # of ways to produce cuts on one's own hands and not be a killer

 

[JLZ]

• Mushroom chef Erin Patterson had visible cuts on her right middle finger
• Filmed with cuts to middle and around nail bed of same finger
• Cuts visible 9 days after fatal Beef Wellington lunch
• Later said she'd dumped mushroom dryer at local tip

edited to add it is odd that there is no story here
the victims were not stabbed to death
any # of ways to produce cuts on one's own hands and not be a killer

My first thought was suicide attempts but obviously not. Two or three grazes, perhaps from gardening? or digging--burying something?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I did notice her hand, the marks on it really stood out.

Maybe it's the first time someone thought to mention it.

I'm sure that plenty of people including me spotted it.

 

[Ellery84]

The Herald Sun says otherwise .... (quoted in this article)


GIPPSLAND mushroom grower, Josef Sestokas of Flooding Creek Fungi at Sale, is concerned the alleged mushroom poisoning incident at Leongatha, which left three people dead and another fighting for his life, may have already had a negative impact on the $460 million-a-year Australian mushroom industry.

However, an article in the Herald-Sun this week suggests there’s been a “surprising” uplift in sales of mushrooms at supermarket checkouts as people are reminded of the “natural superfood” qualities of mushrooms.

‘Absolutely’ nothing wrong with our mushrooms, they say - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

GIPPSLAND mushroom grower, Josef Sestokas of Flooding Creek Fungi at Sale, is concerned the alleged mushroom poisoning incident at Leongatha, which left three people dead and another fighting for his life, may have already had a negative impact on...

www.sgst.com.au

Speaking for my family, we regularly eat mushrooms. My family loves them. Always store-bought and grown under strictly regulated conditions. I have not changed my mushroom-buying habits.

Thank you SA.

 

[Ellery84]

I did notice her hand, the marks on it really stood out.

Maybe it's the first time someone thought to mention it.

I'm sure that plenty of people including me spotted it.

Great spotting, Tootsie

 

[Charlot123]

IMO the most telling aspect of the case is that the Department of Health or whichever authority oversees food safety has declined to institute a mushroom recall.

In the last thread (I think) a member posted a recall notice of produce due to the “use by” date being mislabeled. In that article the concern was possible listeria contamination. Note that no one actually got sick, it was merely caution.

Now here we have a situation where four people became ill, three died and all had symptoms of death cap poisoning yet no recall or even warning about store bought mushrooms was announced.

It suggests that the Department of Health, LE or both are satisfied that neither the supermarket nor the Asian market is the source of suspicious mushrooms. What does that leave? Either they’re both wrong (which is possible) or the death caps came from a different source, one that poses no danger to the public.

Hopefully the case will become clearer once the autopsies and toxicology are complete and we have a definitive COD.
All MOO

Or that someone wants us to think that mushrooms were the source of poisoning, and IRL it was something else. You wonder what poison resembles mushrooms, clinically

 

[Charlot123]

Tagetitoxin, which can be isolated from a plant pathogen (can probably grow on tomatoes or other horticultures), can work exactly the way same as amatoxin (mushroom poisoning), i.e., by inhibiting RNA polymerase II. Potentially, an avid horticulturist might cultivate its source and isolate the toxin. Then blame on mushrooms, by the time LE figure out that it was not amatoxin, the victims would be dead. Another possibility - how many poisons have similar initial symptoms? Dizziness, GI upset, nausea, collapse, diarrhea? Maybe, all? With GI upset, probably the first question would be, what did you eat? And the answers would be, mushrooms. In fact, the poison could be anything.

 

[Charlot123]

Could Body Mass Index affect the severity of symptoms? I suspect that it may - higher BMI possibly reducing symptoms of poisoning symptoms IMO. I've tried to find an answer (unsuccessfully so far.)

From a casual glance, I imagine (ICBW) that all four victims would have been within the normal/ideal range (terminology varies depending on which chart is being viewed). EP's BMI appears to be significantly different from a cursory glance.

Here's a link to a BMI chart - please note that chart uses cms and kgs. Apologies for the ads etc which accompany this link.

The importance of knowing your Body Mass Index (BMI) | Chatswood Medical & Dental Centre

The importance of knowing your Body Mass Index (BMI)

www.chatswoodmedicalanddental.com.au

It might, but I wonder if anyone knows who was the first or the second one to die? I wouldn't be surprised if Ian is alive because he, essentially, was not the intended victim, and the the one who was most important died first? In other words, she/he got the most of the poison?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Great spotting, Tootsie

Thanks @Ellery84

At the time I thought it looked like bandaids.

I would have thought more of it if anyone had been stabbed.

 

[jepop]

Tagetitoxin, which can be isolated from a plant pathogen (can probably grow on tomatoes or other horticultures), can work exactly the way same as amatoxin (mushroom poisoning), i.e., by inhibiting RNA polymerase II. Potentially, an avid horticulturist might cultivate its source and isolate the toxin. Then blame on mushrooms, by the time LE figure out that it was not amatoxin, the victims would be dead. Another possibility - how many poisons have similar initial symptoms? Dizziness, GI upset, nausea, collapse, diarrhea? Maybe, all? With GI upset, probably the first question would be, what did you eat? And the answers would be, mushrooms. In fact, the poison could be anything.

I agree with much of your post, however the poisonous substance, I would say, in addition to causing the same symptoms would also have to be known to destroy the liver? Moo