Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5 *Arrest*

[kittythehare]

Somewhere along the line EP switched lawyers. I read it in one of the articles about her retaining barrister Bill Doogue. (I have been looking for the link again, but haven't found it yet.)

I think it is most likely that the statement was made in conjunction with the first (unnamed) lawyer. Bill Doogue's team have basically told her to keep quiet.


When asked directly, Ms Patterson said: 'My lawyer has told me not to talk to you.' Link

imo

her recent statement to police, which we have not seen, was written by her new lawyers.
Not by herself.

 

[ch_13]

Somewhere along the line EP switched lawyers. I read it in one of the articles about her retaining barrister Bill Doogue. (I have been looking for the link again, but haven't found it yet.)

I think it is most likely that the statement was made in conjunction with the first (unnamed) lawyer. Bill Doogue's team have basically told her to keep quiet.


When asked directly, Ms Patterson said: 'My lawyer has told me not to talk to you.' Link

imo

I believe it's the other way around.

Her original attorney told her to tell the police "no comment". And then it was under the auspices of her current lawyer, Doogue, that she issued the statement:

Writing to police, Erin said she gave the no comment interview on the advice of a lawyer, who is no longer representing her, and that she found the questioning process 'terrifying and anxiety provoking'.

She said she now regrets that decision and wanted to finally speak out to set her side of the story straight after what she claims was wildly incorrect media reporting.

(emphasis added) - original article here.

I believe Doogue is still her attorney. She was at his office within the last couple of weeks.

 

[SouthAussie]

I believe it's the other way around.

Her original attorney told her to tell the police "no comment". And then it was under the auspices of her current lawyer, Doogue, that she issued the statement:

Writing to police, Erin said she gave the no comment interview on the advice of a lawyer, who is no longer representing her, and that she found the questioning process 'terrifying and anxiety provoking'.

She said she now regrets that decision and wanted to finally speak out to set her side of the story straight after what she claims was wildly incorrect media reporting.

(emphasis added) - original article here.

I believe Doogue is still her attorney. She was at his office within the last couple of weeks.

Thanks, yes. I just found the info again in The Age article. She is blaming the no comment police interview on her first lawyer's advice. I wasn't sure where the transition between lawyers happened.

Perhaps the written statement provided to the police was the most she will do. 'Seems' cooperative, but it is not really cooperating with their investigation.

I wish we could see the statement, but it probably invokes some kind of privacy where the media cannot publish it.

Mushroom cook says she bought fungi from Asian grocer and her children ate the lunch leftovers

Erin Patterson told police she, too, was sick from the beef Wellington lunch that police suspect killed her former in-laws and another relative.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Ellery84]

Patience my children, patience. All will doubtless be revealed in the fullness of time

Thank you, oh wise one!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Patience my children, patience. All will doubtless be revealed in the fullness of time

Yes, patience grasshoppers, patience.

 

[MsMarple]

Was the poison ever definitely attributed to death caps? I know a news outlet ran an article a few days back but I wasn’t able to read it. Any official word?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Was the poison ever definitely attributed to death caps? I know a news outlet ran an article a few days back but I wasn’t able to read it. Any official word?

Not yet.

 

[Ellery84]

Admin please delete if not allowed. On 24 August, the News Corp podcast True Crime Cheat Sheet, headlined by Nina Young (who is also the producer for Gary Jubelin’s “I Catch Killers” podcast) discussed the Leongatha Mushroom case, but in veiled terms, stating that they were aware of it and had received lots of listener feedback about the case, but that it was at that stage inappropriate to discuss the case, and they would discuss it on their podcast when appropriate.

‎True Crime Cheat Sheet: The Slenderman stabbing: blurred reality on Apple Podcasts

‎Show True Crime Cheat Sheet, Ep The Slenderman stabbing: blurred reality - 23 Aug 2023

podcasts.apple.com

It intrigued me that they were so circumspect on this matter, and I wondered if News Corp legal team or their Exec boss Dan Box had given them instructions to not discuss.

I actually wonder if the police will charge Erin at all, or if it’s just been a bit of a storm in a teacup so to speak, why the police having not enough evidence to lay a charge as yet.

All jmo

 

[Ellery84]

her recent statement to police, which we have not seen, was written by her new lawyers.
Not by herself.

Hey Kitty…. How do we know it was written by her new lawyers?

Or is that just the general consensus out there?

 

[MsMarple]

Hey Kitty…. How do we know it was written by her new lawyers?

Or is that just the general consensus out there?

I’m not the OP but it’s likely that the sworn statement was a deposition taken from EP by her lawyers with the intention of submitting it to LE. At least that’s what the deputy police commissioner said. And a statement not taken under oath is worthless- her lawyers would know this.

While it’s possible EP’s lawyers helped her format the statement they can’t write it for her then submit it to LE as her sworn word. Her statement must come directly from her. And any changes must be approved by her.

 

[Ellery84]

I’m not the OP but it’s likely that the sworn statement was a deposition taken from EP by her lawyers with the intention of submitting it to LE. At least that’s what the deputy police commissioner said. And a statement not taken under oath is worthless- her lawyers would know this.

While it’s possible EP’s lawyers helped her format the statement they can’t write it for her then submit it to LE as her sworn word. Her statement must come directly from her. And any changes must be approved by her.

Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

I actually thought her statement was circulated to major media outlets before police received it, but I may be wrong on that.

All MOO

 

[MsMarple]

Thank you for taking the time to explain this.

I actually thought her statement was circulated to major media outlets before police received it, but I may be wrong on that.

All MOO

It’s not perfectly clear but here’s what the deputy commissioner said:

The deputy commissioner said Erin's lengthy legal statement was widely circulated to the media before the police could examine it.

Ms Steendam said it was not an official police statement, but one taken by Erin's lawyers.

Erin Patterson: Cops break silence on mushroom chef leaked statement

Victoria's second highest ranking police officer has said the leaking of a statement from Erin Patterson about a mushroom meal thought to be linked to the deaths of three people is 'unhelpful'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

“Legal” statement implies a sworn deposition. And it sure sounds like it was released to the media before LE could examine it. EP denied leaking the statement but at the same time didn’t deny her lawyers leaking it. I’d be really, really surprised if her high profile lawyer couldn’t control his office personnel. So what’s left?

 

[Charlot123]

Admin please delete if not allowed. On 24 August, the News Corp podcast True Crime Cheat Sheet, headlined by Nina Young (who is also the producer for Gary Jubelin’s “I Catch Killers” podcast) discussed the Leongatha Mushroom case, but in veiled terms, stating that they were aware of it and had received lots of listener feedback about the case, but that it was at that stage inappropriate to discuss the case, and they would discuss it on their podcast when appropriate.

‎True Crime Cheat Sheet: The Slenderman stabbing: blurred reality on Apple Podcasts

‎Show True Crime Cheat Sheet, Ep The Slenderman stabbing: blurred reality - 23 Aug 2023

podcasts.apple.com

It intrigued me that they were so circumspect on this matter, and I wondered if News Corp legal team or their Exec boss Dan Box had given them instructions to not discuss.

I actually wonder if the police will charge Erin at all, or if it’s just been a bit of a storm in a teacup so to speak, why the police having not enough evidence to lay a charge as yet.

All jmo

Maybe not.

But … there is a victim who has lost so much.

And the Australian mushroom market that has been impacted by unfounded blabbering. And finally, Asian grocery stores that were accused for no reason, it seems. Given that she can’t remember where, they all are under attack.

Does the situation reach the level of slander? Or not really?

 

[Ellery84]

Does the situation reach the level of slander? Or not really?

Yeah I don’t know about that.

My heart is with the victims. I don’t necessarily agree or understand the rationale behind the podcast that I mentioned NOT covering the case, I just found it interesting that they took that view, so I posted it.

I really feel for the survivor Ian, and all of the family, friends and the whole community that has been affected.

I hope police get to the bottom of what has occurred here because 3 people have died and 1 has endured a serious medical situation, and there must be accountability some way or another.

I will try to be patient to find out what’s going on.

All JMO

 

[Ellery84]

it sure sounds like it was released to the media before LE could examine it. EP denied leaking the statement but at the same time didn’t deny her lawyers leaking it. I’d be really, really surprised if her high profile lawyer couldn’t control his office personnel. So what’s left?

Maybe Erin had her PR person or PR company leak the statement on her behalf?

The nature of the press is that they are not at liberty to reveal their sources, so chances are we will never know who leaked it or how, and I suppose that is ok.

MOO

 

[kittythehare]

Hey Kitty…. How do we know it was written by her new lawyers?

Or is that just the general consensus out there?

posted upthread several times.

Deputy Police Commissioner Wendy Steendam told ABC Radio Melbourne: "Working on an investigation through the media is unhelpful to our investigation.

"The matter needs to be dealt with by us, looked at (by) us, and determined by us thoroughly what's actually occurred, and using the evidence that we have to determine and understand exactly what's happened and if we can explain what caused the deaths."

She said the statement was not an official police document, as it was prepared and provided by Ms Patterson's legal team.

Australian police blast media over 'unhelpful' reporting of Erin Patterson poisoned mushroom case

Detectives probing the death of three people following a poisonous mushroom lunch say the leaking of chef Erin Patterson's police statement has been "unhelpful" and hampered investigators.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[Oona]

Maybe Erin had her PR person or PR company leak the statement on her behalf?

The nature of the press is that they are not at liberty to reveal their sources, so chances are we will never know who leaked it or how, and I suppose that is ok.

MOO

The ABC reported it as follows:
“In a written statement sent to Victoria Police on Friday – and obtained exclusively by the ABC – Gippsland woman Erin Patterson has given her first detailed account of what transpired before and after the fatal lunch.”

I’m not sure how to interpret “obtained exclusively by the ABC”. It is a bit ambiguous about whether the statement was obtained via the Police or Erin.

 

[al66pine]

EP's Statement. Slander? Injurious Falsehood?

.... And the Australian mushroom market that has been impacted by unfounded blabbering. And finally, Asian grocery stores that were accused for no reason, it seems. Given that she can’t remember where, they all are under attack.
Does the situation reach the level of slander? Or not really?

snipped for focus @Charlot123 Has EP's written stmt been released in full? I recall only summaries. Without the entire stmt, it's difficult or impossible to predict whether it could serve as the potential basis for a defamation (libel or slander) lawsuit or similar lawsuit, like ---

"Injurious Falsehood in Australia" by OZ law firm, 2022.
"The tort of injurious falsehood arises when a person (the defendant) makes false representations about the goods and services of another (the plaintiff). The representations can be either written or spoken and they must encourage others not to deal with the plaintiff, which then causes the plaintiff to suffer damage."
"Injurious falsehood is different to defamation, which concerns a person’s reputation; a claim of injurious falsehood focuses on a person’s ability to sell their goods or services in the course of carrying on a business."

Defamation in Victoria

Defamation occurs when one injures another’s reputation without good reason. If you are facing defamation charges then call us today.

www.gotocourt.com.au

InjFal law may or may not apply. IDK.

If stmt named a specific Asian grocery? (IDTS, but...).
For ex, if her stmt said, "I bought mushrooms at XYZ market in Melbourne, cooked w. them, served to 4 guests, and I believe 3 died from ingesting them, landed 1 in ICU for weeks."
In a traditional defamation case, EP's def atty could try - That's EP's opinion, so it's not defamatory.
Maybe try the same poss def in InjFal too?
Would that work as a defense in either type of suit? IDK.

See below* in list of defenses in defamation suit:
" #6 Honest opinion — where the statement was an opinion on a matter of public interest and that opinion was based on material that was substantially true."

But if worded as above and made before autopsy & med reports were finalized, of course stmt is just her opinion.
Did she claim to be a pathologist or mycology expert?
No, still, some ppl likely decided to not purchase mushrooms at XYZ mkt. Presumably mkt owner could prove decreased sales resulting in lower profits, & $ damages. Would/will that happen? IDK

Multiple markets impacted?
If stmt said mushrooms were bought at an Asian mkt on a three block stretch of ___ Street, or mkts in ___ neighborhood of Melbourne, then at least one legal issue becomes murkier, imo. Which mkt owners could join as plaintiffs in a defamation or InjFal suit against EP? Only those in that 3 blk stretch, or in a 5 by 10 block area? IDK.

Reduced mushrooms sales in OZ have been reported. Other mushroom Sellers', Processors', and Growers' profits likely declined. Again, same question: which businesses could join as plaintiffs in a defamation or InjFal suit against EP? IDK.

In addition to weighing the "merits of the case," before agreeing to rep. any of these potential plaintiffs in court, a law firm has to calculate the compensation economics for the firm.

Making no predictions about any lawsuits being filed or any possible outcomes.

From what I've read about EP's stmt's content, whether true, false, or a combo, if SHE released it, imo, Olympic level Bad Idea. imo

___________________________________________
* Defamation article, w list of eight DEFENSES in OZ.
Q & A, by law firm in Queensland (not VIC., but says "Australia’s states and territories have had substantially the same defamation laws since 2005.")
See #6, Opinion.

Australian defamation law questions answered | Twomey Dispute Lawyers

If you might have been defamed or you want to know more about defamation, libel and slander laws in Australia, this is the post for you.

tdllaw.com.au

And for good measure , a familar source.

Defamation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ellery84]

The ABC reported it as follows:
“In a written statement sent to Victoria Police on Friday – and obtained exclusively by the ABC – Gippsland woman Erin Patterson has given her first detailed account of what transpired before and after the fatal lunch.”

I’m not sure how to interpret “obtained exclusively by the ABC”. It is a bit ambiguous about whether the statement was obtained via the Police or Erin.

Well that means that the statement went right to the ABC, and they’ve been able to publish it, on the record.

If it was obtained exclusively by the ABC, chances are the other media outlets don’t even have the actual statement, and have just re-published bits and pieces from the ABC article.

We will never know how the ABC “obtained” it, as they would always keep their source completely confidential.

All MOO

 

[DeDee]

EP's Statement. Slander? Injurious Falsehood?

snipped for focus @Charlot123 Has EP's written stmt been released in full? I recall only summaries. Without the entire stmt, it's difficult or impossible to predict whether it could serve as the potential basis for a defamation (libel or slander) lawsuit or similar lawsuit, like ---

"Injurious Falsehood in Australia" by OZ law firm, 2022.
"The tort of injurious falsehood arises when a person (the defendant) makes false representations about the goods and services of another (the plaintiff). The representations can be either written or spoken and they must encourage others not to deal with the plaintiff, which then causes the plaintiff to suffer damage."
"Injurious falsehood is different to defamation, which concerns a person’s reputation; a claim of injurious falsehood focuses on a person’s ability to sell their goods or services in the course of carrying on a business."

Defamation in Victoria

Defamation occurs when one injures another’s reputation without good reason. If you are facing defamation charges then call us today.

www.gotocourt.com.au

InjFal law may or may not apply. IDK.

If stmt named a specific Asian grocery? (IDTS, but...).
For ex, if her stmt said, "I bought mushrooms at XYZ market in Melbourne, cooked w. them, served to 4 guests, and I believe 3 died from ingesting them, landed 1 in ICU for weeks."
In a traditional defamation case, EP's def atty could try - That's EP's opinion, so it's not defamatory.
Maybe try the same poss def in InjFal too?
Would that work as a defense in either type of suit? IDK.

See below* in list of defenses in defamation suit:
" #6 Honest opinion — where the statement was an opinion on a matter of public interest and that opinion was based on material that was substantially true."

But if worded as above and made before autopsy & med reports were finalized, of course stmt is just her opinion.
Did she claim to be a pathologist or mycology expert?
No, still, some ppl likely decided to not purchase mushrooms at XYZ mkt. Presumably mkt owner could prove decreased sales resulting in lower profits, & $ damages. Would/will that happen? IDK

Multiple markets impacted?
If stmt said mushrooms were bought at an Asian mkt on a three block stretch of ___ Street, or mkts in ___ neighborhood of Melbourne, then at least one legal issue becomes murkier, imo. Which mkt owners could join as plaintiffs in a defamation or InjFal suit against EP? Only those in that 3 blk stretch, or in a 5 by 10 block area? IDK.

Reduced mushrooms sales in OZ have been reported. Other mushroom Sellers', Processors', and Growers' profits likely declined. Again, same question: which businesses could join as plaintiffs in a defamation or InjFal suit against EP? IDK.

In addition to weighing the "merits of the case," before agreeing to rep. any of these potential plaintiffs in court, a law firm has to calculate the compensation economics for the firm.

Making no predictions about any lawsuits being filed or any possible outcomes.

From what I've read about EP's stmt's content, whether true, false, or a combo, if SHE released it, imo, Olympic level Bad Idea. imo

___________________________________________
* Defamation article, w list of eight DEFENSES in OZ.
Q & A, by law firm in Queensland (not VIC., but says "Australia’s states and territories have had substantially the same defamation laws since 2005.")
See #6, Opinion.

Australian defamation law questions answered | Twomey Dispute Lawyers

If you might have been defamed or you want to know more about defamation, libel and slander laws in Australia, this is the post for you.

tdllaw.com.au

And for good measure , a familar source.

Defamation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Your deep dive posts are the best! BTW, I agree w/ this: "From what I've read about EP's stmt's content, whether true, false, or a combo, if SHE released it, imo, Olympic level Bad Idea. imo"

Once EP refused to speak to the Police but hired an attorney instead, she should have remained quiet and not tried to straighten out any misconceptions because now she is tethered to the statement -- whatever the full contents of it happens to be.

The most threat to EP rn, as I see it, is her claim that she scraped the mushrooms off the BW for the children which we know the poison permeates throughout the BW dish.

EP's portion, the children's portions + the portion given to the police that remained uneaten indicates, to me, she made two BW. One had the Death Caps and the other did not. She could have changed her mind when SP canceled but she didn't.

Due to the time involved in preparing the BW recipe and how careful EP may need to be, I suspect the two BW were prepared the day before, then baked prior to the luncheon guests' arrival. If true, she must have felt omnipotent and quite satisfied with herself while at the dining table eating with her four poisoned guests.