TootsieFootsie
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I suppose there’s not “mushroom” for a large profit margin for exotic versions of the fungi that have been getting so much negative press in the last few months.The Australian put out another article a couple of days ago, about a brand new mushroom farm in my state that is now in Administration (the first step to bankruptcy, I think). Although they are going to try to put together a repayment plan that will enable them to keep going. They owe close to $5M.
It has had a couple of financial problems. The first being that the financial backer has had personal issues which has made them unable to meet the debts from the company start-up.
The second being that the mushroom poisoning in Victoria (EP's case) has impacted the demand for the group's oyster, shiitake, enoki, king oyster and lion’s mane mushrooms.
Yes, I think that could be the case Ellery84. If she were to be released on bail, IMO her life woud not be improved significantly from her current situation. It may be that she has anticipated that there could be some restrictions to spending time with her children. Prior to her remand her children were removed from her care, IIRC until such time as the investigation into the "mushroom" deaths was finalised with a satisfactory outcome in relation to Erin.The jurisdiction where she had her recent mention would not have been able to grant bail, and she (her legal team) did not apply at that time.
If she wanted to apply for bail, that would need to be done through the Supreme Court.
So: Maybe she’s not applied to the Supreme Court for bail?
IMO
INAL
I think it would be. The food might be better and she might have internet and some more books to read.Yes, I think that could be the case Ellery84. If she were to be released on bail, IMO her life woud not be improved
significantly from her current situation. It may be that she has anticipated that there could be some restrictions to spending time with her children. Prior to her remand her children were removed from her care, IIRC until such time as the investigation into the "mushroom" deaths was finalised with a satisfactory outcome in relation to Erin.
She sounds like she was a lonely person, imo.She has no other family living locally. Her only blood relative (from what I can gather - ICBW) is her sister who resides in Melbourne. There has really been no information regarding her closeness (or otherwise) to her sister.
Oh that beautiful ABL, adorable black lab. Hope he/she is ok.IMO, given the above, her only source of comfort and solace may be her lovely black labrador.
I am not sure, isn’t she an atheist? I’ve read so many articles about her, it’s starting to get a little blurry on the religious side of things for me.She may gain solace from her religious beliefs, but I imagine that any such solace would be the same whether she is on remand, or released on bail. JMO
Different?Yes Ellery, a mental health defence down the track seems a possibility. After all, she does seem a little "different" from most people, IMO. Not that I know anything about it.
Antisocial?Different?![]()
On the question of a bail application, if successful EP would be expected to post bail? If it's expected to be a significant sum, that could explain the reason for the Mt Waverly property being liquidated quite quickly. Perhaps once the sale is settled and proceeds are released to EP there could be an application made for bail?
She can apply for bail in the Supreme Court, but I think that she is unlikely to be granted bail if she does.
IIRC Borce Ristevski didn't apply for bail in the Vic Supreme Court, he just waited his time out until trial (and then pleaded guilty to manslaughter instead of murder). And Borce murdered one person, not (allegedly) three people and attempting to murder a fourth (and fifth) person.
Borce Ristevski reportedly bashed on first day in jail
This Herald Sun article about EP says accused people are unlikely to get bail via the Supreme Court due to the seriousness of murder charges.
(IMO) if EP spends money trying to get bail, she will have less money for a private lawyer for her trial and any potential appeal. Any potential sentence she is given will have time deducted for this pre-trial stint in prison.
Yes, I believe that is correct.Thank you, yes unlikely to be granted.
What I was meaning to address was why we haven't seen an application to the supreme court for bail as yet and suggesting a possibility could be the legal team are waiting on EP having the ability to post bail.
I’m guessing that the property sale proceeds will go towards a retainer for Erin’s legal team and to pay legal fees already incurred.On the question of a bail application, if successful EP would be expected to post bail? If it's expected to be a significant sum, that could explain the reason for the Mt Waverly property being liquidated quite quickly. Perhaps once the sale is settled and proceeds are released to EP there could be an application made for bail?
No idea, but I think the problem is that with death caps, by the time people work out there's a problem, the damage has been done and they die of organ failure. There's a very small window for treatment, and even then, a lot of people still die.Indocyanine
May 16, 2023
Scientists have developed a new antidote now approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration called indocyanine green that reduces the toxicity of α-amanitin, a toxin produced by the world’s most poisonous mushroom: the death cap.
Scientists have engineered a new antidote for death cap poisoning
https://www.science.org/content/art...e-found-antidote-death-cap-mushroom-poisoning
Did any of the victims have a dose of this drug administered while in the hospital to counteract the poison?
I think the implication is that the defence may argue that is was misidentification. In fairness, even experienced foragers can make mistakes. In France all pharmacists are trained to ID mushrooms for customers because it can be so risky. Even on mushroom ID forums populated with experts you’ll sometimes get disagreement and no consensus without biological testing of a species.That’s really interesting!!
“to be found guilty of murder, the prosecution has to show that Erin had specific knowledge of the mushroom's adverse effects.”
So, presumably that would be in connection with the alleged beef Wellington lunch incident. Jmo
But what about the previous times that the Crown alleges that Erin attempted to murder her husband (or ex husband) Simon Patterson?
Thinking about those historical charges of attempted murder of Simon Patterson: What was the alleged mechanism of those attempted murders? (And Erin is entitled to the presumption of innocence, as she hasn’t been convicted of any of these charges.)
Has the Crown alleged that Simon was poisoned? Or was he allegedly harmed in another way that would lead them to bring a brief together with charges of attempted murder?
If he was allegedly poisoned, then what does the Crown alledge he was poisoned with? Nightshade? Arsenic? Mushrooms?
So I would suggest that there might be more to it than just establishing the accused’s potential knowledge of the mushroom’s adverse effects.
IMO
I would suggest that, in a general sense, the fact that it is called a Death Cap Mushroom might inform the chef (or in this case an alleged murderer) that it might be deadly and therefore not suitable for consumption.
I like to think about this in simple terms, and bear with me: For example, it might be like me preparing a Death Banana. It’s called a Death Banana. I’m hardly going to chop it up and put it on my cornflakes in the morning. Let alone serve it to anyone else…. I’m going to leave it on it’s tree and never touch it.
So if Ms. Patterson’s hearing goes ahead in May 2024, let’s say the defence in the Erin Patterson case rises in the court and says, “well my client didn’t know that Death Cap Mushrooms were sufficiently poisonous that they would cause death,” the Prosecutor might say “well, they are called Death Cap mushrooms” and that might be a really strong argument as to what might happen if one ingested them. Jmo
For what it’s worth, I think there may be some discussion about “quantity” of mushrooms, if and when the case goes to trial in May.
All imo
IBM
BBM
However, even if they try to go that route---misidentification by the suspect---there are many problems with that defence strategy.I think the implication is that the defence may argue that is was misidentification. In fairness, even experienced foragers can make mistakes. In France all pharmacists are trained to ID mushrooms for customers because it can be so risky. Even on mushroom ID forums populated with experts you’ll sometimes get disagreement and no consensus without biological testing of a species.
It’s a bit like if somebody mixed every brand of potato crisps together in a bowl and asked you to find the Walkers ones on sight. Possible, once you know what you’re looking for, but easy to make mistakes too.
And, if it was a mistake, how do we explain the dehydrator? If anything, a mistaken person wants to get to the bottom of the situation herself, including what type of a mushroom it was, she'd never throw out any evidence.However, even if they try to go that route---misidentification by the suspect---there are many problems with that defence strategy.
First, she lied and covered it up for all this time. If it was a simple mistake, why not be honest?
And there is no indication that she ever told the luncheon guests that they were eating foraged mushrooms that day. Wouldn't that be a topic of conversation if she thought everything was OK?
And of course, the HUGE problem for her still exists---8 beings could have been poisoned that day, but only her guests died or severely injured. Neither she, her children or her Labrador suffered any consequences. VERY suspicious in itself.
If it was a mistaken identification, why did only those 4 suffer?