Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #6 *Arrest*

[JBowie]

And, if it was a mistake, how do we explain the dehydrator? If anything, a mistaken person wants to get to the bottom of the situation herself, including what type of a mushroom it was, she'd never throw out any evidence.

Clearly, the prosecution believes it has sufficient evidence to prove three counts of murder and five counts of attempted murder beyond reasonable doubt.

I look forward eagerly to any defence arguments that it was all accidental. Heck, I think I'd even travel to sit and watch that.

 

[Montrealaise]

She claims that she bought the mushrooms at two different grocery stores, but health officials do not have any record of any other poisonings (and it's extremely, extremely unlikely that any grocery store wouldn't know what they were selling). An Australian media outlet interviewed her neighbors, who said she was an experienced wild mushroom forager.

 

[Montrealaise]

"she is an atheist as far as I knew"

How Erin Patterson's life of wealth fell apart before mushroom lunch

Wealthy mother-of-two Erin Patterson is in custody after her privileged life unravelled when her marriage collapsed and she allegedly served a fatal mushroom lunch.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Although this appeared in the Daily Mail, it is not where it originated. It came from an anonymous post in a forum following EP's case.

It was stated by a person who anonymously declared themself as an "ex" friend of EP's. Ex because they had a falling out. As a member of the true crime groups of which EP and the anonymous person were members I'm familiar with them both in that context.

In the EP forum the anonymous person stated they had not met EP in person. In other words they knew EP on-line, not in real life. As we all know people can present themselves on-line in the way they wish to be perceived.

It is my opinion therefore - the anonymous on-line ex friend would not know if EP was an atheist or not.

In the linked article (subscriber only) a Korumburra local is quoted as saying when EP was editor of the Burra Flyer she pushed a religious agenda. This contradicts what has been stated by the anonymous on-line ex friend.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/erin-patterson-believed-to-be-reading-and-reciting-bible-verses-in-prison/news-story/a348ba9904ba0b252054fe27a57e0e4d&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=HIGH-Segment-1-SCORE

All said in my own opinion.

Apparently she had no real friends; her only interactions with other people were with those she communicated with online.

 

[Ellery84]

I think the implication is that the defence may argue that is was misidentification. In fairness, even experienced foragers can make mistakes. In France all pharmacists are trained to ID mushrooms for customers because it can be so risky. Even on mushroom ID forums populated with experts you’ll sometimes get disagreement and no consensus without biological testing of a species.

It’s a bit like if somebody mixed every brand of potato crisps together in a bowl and asked you to find the Walkers ones on sight. Possible, once you know what you’re looking for, but easy to make mistakes too.

Great post. Thank you for that.

It still doesn’t account for the alleged attempted murders of ex partner Simon - the historical ones that did not involve the Beef Wellington mushroom dish.

Or maybe they’re all allegedly mushroom related.

IMO

 

[Ellery84]

Apparently she had no real friends; her only interactions with other people were with those she communicated with online.

We don’t know that for sure.

IMO

 

[MsMarple]

Great post. Thank you for that.

It still doesn’t account for the alleged attempted murders of ex partner Simon - the historical ones that did not involve the Beef Wellington mushroom dish.

Or maybe they’re all allegedly mushroom related.

IMO

JMO but it wouldn’t be surprising (if this goes to trial) if EP’s defense team submits a motion to separate the attempted murder charges for SP from the death cap poisonings. They may argue that trying all charges together would prejudice each case.

IOW the prosecution may try to argue that the attempts on SP shows a pattern of EP trying to kill him and his family. Defense would want to avoid that connection.
Only MOO of course.

 

[arrogantcat]

Great post. Thank you for that.

It still doesn’t account for the alleged attempted murders of ex partner Simon - the historical ones that did not involve the Beef Wellington mushroom dish.

Or maybe they’re all allegedly mushroom related.

IMO

No, I agree - as a defence it crumbles in the face of the other charges.

I don’t know enough about Australian law to say whether the jury would have to consider each case in isolation or can do something similar to how the UK jury instructed in the Lucy Letby case, and use their decided guilt about one case to contribute to their verdict on the others. The full list being announced publicly makes me suspect they will, to a degree, but that’s just a guess.

 

[arrogantcat]

And, if it was a mistake, how do we explain the dehydrator? If anything, a mistaken person wants to get to the bottom of the situation herself, including what type of a mushroom it was, she'd never throw out any evidence.

I suppose a good defence lawyer could make the argument that she panicked and thought she’d get in trouble so tried to cover her tracks. Not especially moral, perhaps, but not illegal in and of itself.
However, in order to argue something to this effect she’d have to take the stand, and I can’t imagine that going well for her based on her previous public statement.

And, of course, the additional murder charges that drastically change the picture,

Not saying I believe this was accidental or that I think it’s a particularly believable version of events, but from a legal perspective, it’s probably the most plausible route for a defence. JMO.

 

[Ellery84]

JMO but it wouldn’t be surprising (if this goes to trial) if EP’s defense team submits a motion to separate the attempted murder charges for SP from the death cap poisonings. They may argue that trying all charges together would prejudice each case.

IOW the prosecution may try to argue that the attempts on SP shows a pattern of EP trying to kill him and his family. Defense would want to avoid that connection.
Only MOO of course.

Just wanted to say I agree with all of that.

Maybe defence will submit that. IMO

I also think it’s so important for each and every case that the Crown has brought charges for, that sub judice stays firmly in place so that Ms. Patterson can have a fair trial, and I’m hoping that will be a jury trial.

The media seems to have really pulled back on this case since sub judice has been in place, and that gives me a lot of confidence in this process.

I guess we will have to wait until the next mention in May 2024 to see what the legal arguments (for and against) may be.

All IMHO

 

[SouthAussie]

There is a really simple listing here that explains the different murder/manslaughter options in Vic.

I had been looking at it to see if EP could plead down to involuntary manslaughter. But to do that she would still have to admit a certain amount of culpability. ... some kind of criminal negligence.

Murder and Manslaughter Offences | Galbally & O’Bryan Lawyers, Melbourne

In Victoria, there are different offences that relate to the unlawful killing of another person. These include murder and manslaughter. If you or someone you know has been charged with one of these offences, it is imperative to seek legal advice. Contact our Galbally & O'Bryan's team of expert...

www.galballyobryan.com.au

 

[JBowie]

There is a really simple listing here that explains the different murder/manslaughter options in Vic.

I had been looking at it to see if EP could plead down to involuntary manslaughter. But to do that she would still have to admit a certain amount of culpability. ... some kind of criminal negligence.

Murder and Manslaughter Offences | Galbally & O’Bryan Lawyers, Melbourne

In Victoria, there are different offences that relate to the unlawful killing of another person. These include murder and manslaughter. If you or someone you know has been charged with one of these offences, it is imperative to seek legal advice. Contact our Galbally & O'Bryan's team of expert...

www.galballyobryan.com.au

Yes, but there's also the attempted murder charges. Not sure how they could be argued away as involuntary attempts. I guess she'd have to argue that they were all accidental.

It will be interesting to hear the prosecution's assertion of motive(s).

 

[ch_13]

I suppose a good defence lawyer could make the argument that she panicked and thought she’d get in trouble so tried to cover her tracks. Not especially moral, perhaps, but not illegal in and of itself.
However, in order to argue something to this effect she’d have to take the stand, and I can’t imagine that going well for her based on her previous public statement.

I don't want to sound like a broken record. However, I'll say again that I think that the statement that EP's attorneys sent to the police 4 weeks after the incident will make it very difficult to for her. In it she was still claiming that the mushrooms were purchased at the store.

If she hadn't made the statement, she could have claimed she was under duress when she was originally questioned by the cops and that's why she fibbed and also why she tossed the dehydrator.

But to still tell lies a month later and after speaking with an attorney? I can't imagine a jury finding anything she says credible if she changes her story now.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, but there's also the attempted murder charges. Not sure how they could be argued away as involuntary attempts. I guess she'd have to argue that they were all accidental.

It will be interesting to hear the prosecution's assertion of motive(s).

I was thinking of if EP and the prosecution agree on a plea deal to a lesser charge. If a plea deal is arranged, we are not going to hear any motive or anything else.

In the Borce Ristevski plea deal (murder pled down to manslaughter, and agreed by all) we heard nothing at all about what happened, why he killed Karen.

imo

 

[investikater]

Perhaps if Erin attended church alone or with her family members and friends, we'd know about it. Otherwise, something dark happens in her household to produce the images of daggers, tombstones and decapitated heads on an interior wall.

​

<modsnip - not an approved source>

I remember something reported about writing referencing death

What I'm not clear about from these reports is: is this stuff alledgedly in her home, or in the one she was renting out?

 

[investikater]

In 2021 there were some reforms made to the law in Victoria.

In Victoria, when people are charged with murder, usually they can only be granted bail by applying to the Supreme Court; neither the police nor bail justices can grant bail. People accused of murder are remanded until the bail application can be heard by a Supreme Court judge.

Link below:

https://www.lawreform.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/bail_law_brochureFINAL.pdf

Thank you
Why did they do that?

 

[JLZ]

I remember something reported about writing referencing death

What I'm not clear about from these reports is: is this stuff alledgedly in her home, or in the one she was renting out?

She moved out and then it was sold. There is no rental history shown on that property. I assume she owned it.

You can figure out which house it is from the address and picture in this article: ‘Macabre’ twist in mushroom poisoning tragedy - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

 

[JBowie]

She moved out and then it was sold. There is no rental history shown on that property. I assume she owned it.

Which property are you referring to?

There were claims by neighbors in earlier MSM articles that her recently-sold townhouse in Mount Waverley was rarely occupied.

While Patterson and her former husband Simon Patterson were previously the owners, public records show the property was transferred from joint ownership into Erin Patterson’s name alone in 2021. The townhouse previously traded in 2019 for $931,000.

Accused mushroom cook sells Mount Waverley townhouse

Alleged triple murderer Erin Patterson listed her three-bedroom house for about $1 million, but it sold before auction.

www.theage.com.au

 

[JLZ]

Which property are you referring to?

There were claims by neighbors in earlier MSM articles that her recently-sold townhouse in Mount Waverley was rarely occupied.

While Patterson and her former husband Simon Patterson were previously the owners, public records show the property was transferred from joint ownership into Erin Patterson’s name alone in 2021. The townhouse previously traded in 2019 for $931,000.

Accused mushroom cook sells Mount Waverley townhouse

Alleged triple murderer Erin Patterson listed her three-bedroom house for about $1 million, but it sold before auction.

www.theage.com.au

Not that one.

THE Korumburra tradesman who took a photo of a so-called “death wall” at a house in Shellcot Road, Korumburra last year. . . .

‘Macabre’ twist in mushroom poisoning tragedy - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

The Leongatha woman, who allegedly prepared the meals that killed three family members, and hospitalised another, late last month, Erin Patterson, talks to the media outside her home last Thursday. THE Korumburra tradesman who took a photo of...

www.sgst.com.au

 

[Ellery84]

Thank you
Why did they do that?

Not being a law maker myself, I’m not really sure.

 

[al66pine]

VIC Bail Statutes?

In 2021 there were some reforms made to the law in Victoria.
In Victoria, when people are charged with murder, usually they can only be granted bail by applying to the Supreme Court; neither the police nor bail justices can grant bail. People accused of murder are remanded until the bail application can be heard by a Supreme Court judge. Link below:
https://www.lawreform.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/bail_law_brochureFINAL.pdf

@Ellery84 Thanks for your post w link w info re VIC law.

https://www.lawreform.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/bail_law_brochureFINAL.pdf

This online VIC. Law Reform Commission's brochure solicits public comment about bail law (specifically, procedures for LE NOTIFYING VICTIMS of post-arrest bail conditions or intervention orders imposed on arrestees) and gives response deadline in 2006.* Sooo, it may or may not be current.

But IIRC other posts reference VIC bail law and may be more current.
__________________________________

* Brochure Cover:
"Have Your Say/ Bail Laws/ SEEKING THE VIEWS OF VICTIMS OF CRIME."
Next page:
"Tell us what you think"
Contact details for VIC Law Reform Commssn.
"DEADLINE FOR RESPONSES: 31 JANUARY 2006"

The link's URL has "2021/07" (July 2021?)
suggesting it was ---
- was written in 2021
- was posted online in 2021.
- (or other?)
^^^Can be confusing, imo.^^^