Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #6 *Arrest*

[JLZ]

Im

I’m not so sure about this. I agree about the risk of any siblings of the husband inheriting, but the properly drafted Australian wills I’ve read all state that beneficiaries must survive the deceased by a certain period, exceeding a few days (I think it is typically 28 days).

If so it wouldn't matter whether the "husband" died before his parents or shortly afterwards. Either way the property wouldn't pass to him and therefore not to his children.

(Of course there might be a pair of wills that benefit the grandchildren directly.)

 

[Amalgam]

All true, but I don't think she wanted to avoid serving the death caps. I think that was her special menu and she planned to take them all out. Her ex escaped the meal but she pressed on anyway.

I think she thought she could get away with it, as she had previously with her ex and his mysterious hospital visits. JMO

My thoughts exactly.

 

[bearbear]

True, but it would still take a long process to get the death caps ready.

I think she did possibly make a mushroom gravy/sauce. But if he did cancel last minute, she did probably already have the mushrooms simmering. JMO

could they be dried to a powder and just be required to sprinkle or measure teaspoons into the liquid? they may have been picked and dried and glass jarred months ago and stored, making them much easier to use as needed?

 

[NeverPersonal]

If Simon wasn't at the meal, then this particular charge is purely speculative and hypothetical.

What? I'm sure they have proof she intended him to be there/was upset he didn't show.

She must've hated these people so much she didn't even care what happens to her, because how the hell did she think she'd get away with poisoning an entire family.

 

[NeverPersonal]

Erin Patterson appears in court charged with murder

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i feel like her consistently unkempt / unhygienic appearance combined with her wearing certain items of clothing constantly suggests some interesting things mentally. i hope they give her a psych eval

 

[JLZ]

could they be dried to a powder and just be required to sprinkle or measure teaspoons into the liquid? they may have been picked and dried and glass jarred months ago and stored, making them much easier to use as needed?

I suspect the powder rehydrated would become a sludge. So probably fine in gravy but not in coffee.

 

[JLZ]

i feel like her consistently unkempt / unhygienic appearance combined with her wearing certain items of clothing constantly suggests some interesting things mentally. i hope they give her a psych eval

I don't agree that her appearance is consistently unkempt/unhygienic. Of course she wasn't at her best after a night in prison.

 

[Amalgam]

could they be dried to a powder and just be required to sprinkle or measure teaspoons into the liquid? they may have been picked and dried and glass jarred months ago and stored, making them much easier to use as needed?

Yes.

Amatoxins are quite stable, so once death cap mushrooms are dehydrated, they will remain highly poisonous as long as they are kept dry in a relatively airtight container.

Amatoxin is so stable, unlike many other plant or animal based poisons, that it will will withstand extended exposure to heat, such as when cooking.

The flavour is said to be quite innocuous and inoffensive compared to common mushrooms. The powdered mushroom flesh is insoluble and would be noticeable in tea or coffee unless it was filtered out before serving.

 

[Amalgam]

I don't agree that her appearance is consistently unkempt/unhygienic. Of course she wasn't at her best after a night in prison.

I agree in terms of recent footage.

The media has quoted an ex-workmate of hers as saying she had men wound around her little finger in spite of being unkempt. (Not a verbatim quote, but close enough for illustrative purposes).

 

[JLZ]

I agree in terms of recent footage.

The media has quoted an ex-workmate of hers as saying she had men wound around her little finger in spite of being unkempt. (Not a verbatim quote, but close enough for illustrative purposes).

I wonder how kempt the male workmate was. I thought it was a highly gendered comment.

 

[Amalgam]

I wonder how kempt the male workmate was. I thought it was a highly gendered comment.

I couldn’t agree with you more strongly. I only repeated it to point out why people might opine that she has a history of looking unkempt.

 

[Amalgam]

To get off on mental health grounds requires far more than a psychiatric illness. It is a high bar to clear. That said, a nurse I know who worked in a secure forensic ward for the criminally insane (as they were then called) stated that at least one patient who was in there following a successful insanity defense in a murder trial was perfectly sane and had games the system.

To succeed in a defense of insanity or mental illness, the relevant law in Victoria states that at the time of the offending:

1) … the accused was suffering from a mental impairment that had the effect that –

(a) he or she did not know the nature and quality of the conduct; or
(b) he or she did not know the conduct was wrong…

[and therefore] … the person must be found not guilty because of mental impairment.

 

[Kemug]

Choice of work duties in the maximum security prison/remand centre starting today:

Cleaner
Gardener
Laundry duties
Hairdressing assists
Library
Textiles/Upholstery
Kitchen/Cook duties

Well, we know from EP herself that she doesn't enjoy cleaning, so she wouldn't want that. OTOH, if we're talking punishment . . . .

 

[k-mac]

To get off on mental health grounds requires far more than a psychiatric illness. It is a high bar to clear. That said, a nurse I know who worked in a secure forensic ward for the criminally insane (as they were then called) stated that at least one patient who was in there following a successful insanity defense in a murder trial was perfectly sane and had games the system.

To succeed in a defense of insanity or mental illness, the relevant law in Victoria states that at the time of the offending:

1) … the accused was suffering from a mental impairment that had the effect that –

(a) he or she did not know the nature and quality of the conduct; or
(b) he or she did not know the conduct was wrong…

[and therefore] … the person must be found not guilty because of mental impairment.

Right
But she is not right in the head.

It has to come to light.

 

[Amalgam]

Well, we know from EP herself that she doesn't enjoy cleaning, so she wouldn't want that. OTOH, if we're talking punishment . . . .

I don’t think inmates awaiting trial and therefore entitled to the presumption of innocence are required to work in prison, but if Erin is convicted she could always take a leaf out of Judy Moran’s playbook and suddenly find herself in need of a wheelchair and medically unfit for work.

 

[Amalgam]

Right
But she is not right in the head.

It has to come to light.

I agree. But nor are plenty of convicted felons who find themselves in jail.

 

[k-mac]

I agree. But nor are plenty of convicted felons who find themselves in jail.

I think tho she will enjoy playing the mental health card...she is the victim in all this...

once she see's no exit door then she will bring it.

 

[Ellery84]

Right
But she is not right in the head.

It has to come to light.

K-Mac, how do we know that? There were no custody issues, no medication to be administered. That was discussed at her mention. Do you think there was a mental health issue going on? I haven’t heard that before…

So how do we know she was not right in the head? Some people are bad, not mad.

And of course she may not even be “bad,” she is entitled to the presumption of innocence on all of the charges.

 

[Ellery84]

To get off on mental health grounds requires far more than a psychiatric illness. It is a high bar to clear. That said, a nurse I know who worked in a secure forensic ward for the criminally insane (as they were then called) stated that at least one patient who was in there following a successful insanity defense in a murder trial was perfectly sane and had games the system.

To succeed in a defense of insanity or mental illness, the relevant law in Victoria states that at the time of the offending:

1) … the accused was suffering from a mental impairment that had the effect that –

(a) he or she did not know the nature and quality of the conduct; or
(b) he or she did not know the conduct was wrong…

[and therefore] … the person must be found not guilty because of mental impairment.

I did a practicum for University (many moons ago) at the mental health ward of a hospital. They had a few forensic patients in there, serving out their sentences within the mental health facility, which was a secure facility. One was Caucasian man who claimed he was Islamic (I’m sure he was Islamic), and had called in a bomb threat and gotten himself convicted - he was one of the easiest patients to deal with, as he was so “normal”. He really didn’t seem that unwell, imo.

Then there was the lady whom had been convicted of putting rat poison in the buffet of two Sizzler restaurants. She was in a different wing to the individual who had made the bomb threat.

She was really normal too, just out there amidst the seriously mentally unwell consumers/patients, living her best life. I remember one day we took her on day release with a few other patients …. we went and got fish and chips for lunch and hung out by the ocean for a while. I think she was selected to come on day release she was very emotionally regulated (compared to her peers) and didn’t post much of a risk.

It’s not an awful way to serve out one’s sentence imo. Plenty of therapeutic groups to attend, lots of diversional and health activities to participate in, and it’s also a good opportunity for certain individuals to get continuity of mental health care that they may not have had access to in the community.

All jmo

 

[k-mac]

K-Mac, how do we know that? There were no custody issues, no medication to be administered. That was discussed at her mention. Do you think there was a mental health issue going on? I haven’t heard that before…

So how do we know she was not right in the head? Some people are bad, not mad.

And of course she may not even be “bad,” she is entitled to the presumption of innocence on all of the charges.

Only an assumption, speculating Ellery.

Poisoning people killing them makes you not right in the head in my books.