Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #13

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Yes Doc watson really nailed him on that interview, he might as well be poster boy for a book, how not to get away with murder.
I wish he'd give his thoughts on the sister's interview too, she looked like she was almost holding her breath, that he wouldn't put his foot in it, or she didn't believe him. I got the impression he was very reluctant to do the interview.
IMO

She also says in the other interview I dont have the link to the vid sorry

http://m.news.com.au/QLD/pg/0/fi1173473.htm

"I spoke to her the night before she disappeared on Thursday night and she seemed fine," she said.

What time did she speak to her...........................???????? :waitasec: that needs to be put in the movement timeline,,,courtesy call from sister in law on the night you dissapear....
 
There lack of action just speaks volumes. There was nothing to find so they were hardly going to get motivated to look for a body they didn't want found.

My first reaction if my someone was missing from my family would be right - lets get the whole community involved - posters, flyers, what other exposure can we get - then I would be freely contacting the media for time to explain how he was missing. Contact all my friends to tell them to look out for this person. Get on FB and let everyone know I needed to find this person - SING from the rooftops on TWITTER - Utube -omg by any shot of the imagination the Kony media splash of exposure would be just flash in the pan would have nothing on me.

But all we have - is a most pathetic plea 'please dear Allison come home' and the Dickies not even knowing the full details of Allison's last moments doing whatever they can within the realm of their abilities to bring Allison home.

It is too sad for words.
 
There are a few misconceptions in this statement. Firslty, neither the client nor their lawyer can determine whether the client is guilty of an offence. 'Guilt' is a technical legal term which refers to the extent to which the Crown evidence is accepted by the jury, to the requisitie standard...Moral guilt is a different phenomenon and has (for better or worse) little to do with the forsensic legal process.

...The criminal trial is designed to determine whether there is strong enough evidence to convince 12 people that the assertions made by the Crown are correct. If the jury finds that the evidence does not meet this standard, that's all they are deciding. A finding of 'not guilty' is a finding in relation to the quality of the evidence, not a finding of 'innocence'.

...It is a very deeply seated misconception that criminal trials... are fundamentally a search for the truth. They are not. If what they produced was 'the truth' then guilty people would never be acquited and innocent people would never be convicted.

The original post has been edited.

HAWKINS: Again thank you for your illuminating contribution to this thread. The distinctions drawn are helpful to understand the criminal law process.
 
It is a very deeply seated misconception that crimninal trials in common law countries, such as Australia, are fundamentally a search for the truth. They are not. If what they produced was 'the truth' then guilty people would never be acquited and innocent people would never be convicted.

Yes, yes yes. Hawkins. And when you believe (or once believed) in the sanctity of truth, and expect that to be of highest in a court of law - it's yet another rude and crude awakening.
 
Glad you didn't say ALL in agreement, lol. Think theres quite a few not so ready to slap the cuffs on. I hover and in reality I guess none of us truly know, without all the facts. But understand people have their opinions(including myself).

Funnily enough I did have you & little possumheart in mind when I said "majority" as I know you're both on the fence..& that's cool with me...lol.

I don't know & you're right..no one truly knows...but for me there's just too many things to get past to call him as being innocent. All the theories & possibilities etc etc re innocence which have been posted on here over the last five weeks....I've yet to read one which sounds plausible to me.

All I do know is that this case, in the words of Justice Paul Coghlan at the sentencing of Arthur Freeman, would also apply to Allison's case.

"It offends our collective conscience.”
 
All very interesting discussions today, thanks :)

I've been dwelling on the business side of things again. Portsmouth posted an interesting piece on a drive he/she did around Kenmore and Taringa this week. Did you end up going to Brookfield too, Portsmouth?


Interestingly, P reported that the Century21 offices are pretty much vacant now, no photos, signage etc from memory. We also know the office space is being advertised for lease.

Does anyone have a view on the following:

1. Was the business being wound up anyway in the weeks prior to Allison's death and the business would have closed down in any event; or

2. Was the business going badly but not winding up, then Allison was killed and due to all the publicity, outrage and mystery, people pulled their properties etc and the business has been destroyed by all of this.

I wonder about the sequence of events. Any thoughts?

IMO it's 2. If I remember correctly, they had 23 or so properties for sale before this incident. They may have been in serious financial trouble, but it seemed that the business was still up and running and trying to survive.
 
She also says in the other interview I dont have the link to the vid sorry

http://m.news.com.au/QLD/pg/0/fi1173473.htm

"I spoke to her the night before she disappeared on Thursday night and she seemed fine," she said.

What time did she speak to her...........................???????? :waitasec: that needs to be put in the movement timeline,,,courtesy call from sister in law on the night you dissapear....

woah really? I didn't read that part....how odd, did she mean she spoke to her the night before she disappeared or on the night she disappeared? either way, it is quite the COINCIDENCE!!!
 
Has anyone done up a TIMELINE of events in a doc that could be posted. One based on info that has been reported by the media and/or a timeline including gossip.
 
I just went for a bit of a surf around twitter and facebook etc. Some of the things people are saying are diabolical. I am glad you lot have class.
 
All very interesting discussions today, thanks :)

I've been dwelling on the business side of things again. Portsmouth posted an interesting piece on a drive he/she did around Kenmore and Taringa this week. Did you end up going to Brookfield too, Portsmouth?


Interestingly, P reported that the Century21 offices are pretty much vacant now, no photos, signage etc from memory. We also know the office space is being advertised for lease.

Does anyone have a view on the following:

1. Was the business being wound up anyway in the weeks prior to Allison's death and the business would have closed down in any event; or

2. Was the business going badly but not winding up, then Allison was killed and due to all the publicity, outrage and mystery, people pulled their properties etc and the business has been destroyed by all of this.

I wonder about the sequence of events. Any thoughts?

There were only 12 homes listed for sale a month ago..I do not think the business was doing so well ( plus the rumour of the business going in to liquidation a few weeks prior to Allison's death; if anyone wants the original post , I will go back and look for it )

Personally I think the business may have been going down the gurgler regardless..
 
woah really? I didn't read that part....how odd, did she mean she spoke to her the night before she disappeared or on the night she disappeared? either way, it is quite the COINCIDENCE!!!

YEP Thursday night the night 'before' she disappeared as in the early morning walk she didn't come back from the next morning.....

I think its worth noting somewhere in the timeline of events....what time was the call???????
 
There were only 12 homes listed for sale a month ago..I do not think the business was doing so well ( plus the rumour of the business going in to liquidation a few weeks prior to Allison's death; if anyone wants the original post , I will go back and look for it )

Personally I think the business may have been going down the gurgler regardless..

Thanks (I was mistaken).
 
Funnily enough I did have you & little possumheart in mind when I said "majority" as I know you're both on the fence..& that's cool with me...lol.

I don't know & you're right..no one truly knows...but for me there's just too many things to get past to call him as being innocent. All the theories & possibilities etc etc re innocence which have been posted on here over the last five weeks....I've yet to read one which sounds plausible to me.

All I do know is that this case, in the words of Justice Paul Coghlan at the sentencing of Arthur Freeman, would also apply to Allison's case.

"It offends our collective conscience.”

Good last line.

Its not that I haven't thought the same as many often, and I still have suscpicions. But theres also other ways that I look at things too sometimes, maybe some don't.(no judgement there, its just how I think..looking at both sides/options to many things). And I think also there are elements of things that make me keep an open mind to other possibilites. But we all have our own way of looking at things I guess. And I'm not going to declare wholeheartedly guilt or not with what I know(or don't) and in a public way without facts..YET.

Buy hey. I am glad we can all respect each others opinions and thoughts on things.
 
I am at Coles shopping centre and at both entrances & exits I used there is a sign advising customers the car park will be chained at night and reopened in the morning. It's raining here, so no trolley boys to be seen to clarify the missing chain theory. I might come back tomorrow.
 
Its funny in that interview Olivia looks genuinely concerned when she speaks but then in that other vid its almost like a B grade movie performance...

I know I made several comments on Olivia's behaviour in that interview with GBC. It looked like she was monitoring him, guarding him almost, and she seemed super vigilante with watching the reactions of the press.
HOWEVER, and I might have even reposted this, If you look at it from another perspective, she is providing support for him, allowing the press to see she stands by him.

Its all in the way you perceive it (and now Im pretty sure I have already put this thought up!)
 
Iwas thinking the same thing.Maybe this was planned.If Allison wanted out and he knew that she would be awarded at least 65% of his assets.Plus child support.So if he has no income,no child support.Iwas also thinking maybe they both saw a therapist,not too save the marriage but to make it earier on the girls.Thats what dear sweet Allison would want.
 
Nice review re Interview from Doc Watson on Aussie crims, I hope im not TOS violating here but if I am Ill catch ya in a few days!!! cheers

http://aussiecriminals.com.au/2012/...-under-pressure/comment-page-3/#comment-28691


Doc Watson says:
May 25, 2012 at 5:41 am


Watching the Gerbil Clay interview just now did it for me yet again … Every alarm bell in the world goes off … And the poor young crime reporter (Alyshia Gates) seemed to be buying it too … This will go down as one of the most self-incriminating performances in the history of Australian crime. No wonder there has been no repeat interviews.

Every single tell-tale sign of lies & deceit was there for us all to see and hear.

In case you have lost the link to the YouTube video that Robbo created:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c76CI6vtixI

Transcript (my observations/comments in brackets)

Gerbil Clay:
“I’m trying to look after my children at the moment” (gesticulates with hands in a very peculiar way)
“I’ve got three young girls and …” (looks down pausing, stalling, desperately thinking of what to say next)
“We” (smacks his lips, again looks down unable to face the reporter)
“We really trust that the Police are doing everything they CAN (pulling incredible forced facial expressions) to find my wife and …” (big breath, swallow, licks his lips)
“We just hope that she will … (voice cracking) COME home soon” (choke, gulp, feigned distress).

Gerbil Clay:
“I’ve spoken to the Police about everything … and” (shaking his head side to side, obviously subconsciously realizing his own BS, furtively looks up, with right eyebrow raised, at Alyshia to see if she is buying it (she is) tries to think ahead because his biggest line of deceit is coming … Then looks down:
“I’ve, I’ve had no contact from her at all” (another quick look at reporter to see if she is duped)
(This last statement is true, because it is hard to contact someone when you are dead and held underwater with chains)

Alyshia Gates:
“Was she upset before she went away?”

Gerbil Clay:
“Nooo …” (again shaking head from side to side in subconscious disagreement with his incongruous lying words) and immediately rushes on, without even drawing breath with:
“And, and, the Police, I’ve tried to help the Police as much as I can” (still madly shaking his head from side to side, the classic give-away – this is lie spotting 101 right here)
“We all have” (head shaking side to side)
“With everything we’ve got” (still shaking head from side to side … didn’t Realty School teach him)
“So … Thank you (tearingly)… I’m sorry”
(You had already answered this issue … The question was: was she upset before she left home? She was upset, very upset, women usually are when violently accosted and murdered by a lying cheating cowardly mongrel husband such as you)

Gerbil Clay (regarding the car crash):
“Oh was hurt a little bit … voice fading away … but I’m OK” (here he nods his head to the “I’m OK” bit – which is most definitely a true statement … He is very clearly OK.
(This Is the final straw … I would convict him just on that alone. I am almost serious).

Gerbil Clay:
“We’ve got such great family support”
“My sister, and my family here”
“And they’re looking after ….” looks down, chokes sobs unable to continue … (his family support obviously meaning so much more than his missing wife/mother of his kids).

Scouts honour, this interview does not need any any trained expert in body language to interpret subtle micro-gestures … Gerbil’s lying words and blatant deceit now on the public record – set in stone, not to be washed away like a bit of clay sprinkled on concrete !! ;-)

Hahahahha!

I thought 'Who the hell is Gerbil Clay?' Greg is off topic, skating on thin ice, another time out.... then the penny dropped!

Man, I am STUPID! Good post, Greg.. remind us of the day we turned on our tv's , saw this and thought ????? I'm not so stupid that I can't see that he's lying through his teeth JMO
 
All very interesting discussions today, thanks :)

I've been dwelling on the business side of things again. Portsmouth posted an interesting piece on a drive he/she did around Kenmore and Taringa this week. Did you end up going to Brookfield too, Portsmouth?


Interestingly, P reported that the Century21 offices are pretty much vacant now, no photos, signage etc from memory. We also know the office space is being advertised for lease.

Does anyone have a view on the following:

1. Was the business being wound up anyway in the weeks prior to Allison's death and the business would have closed down in any event; or

2. Was the business going badly but not winding up, then Allison was killed and due to all the publicity, outrage and mystery, people pulled their properties etc and the business has been destroyed by all of this.

I wonder about the sequence of events. Any thoughts?
Hey ,thats post I sent was meant for "thinking"..I seriously haven't a clue what I'm doing.I suppose it takes practise to get this right. Please bare with me every one
 
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