Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #14

[mountainhigh]

I feel we have exhausted the GBC angle to the ground.....Where we are all very understanding that he was one of the orchestrators of this crime. How about now (whilst keeping him in mind....I am not suggesting we take him away from the fore front at all...Not saying we try to take the pressure of him here). But, why can we not now try to sleuth, other possibilities that may tie in.....looking at everyone surrounding Allison, empthasis on EVERYONE. Not in an accusationary manner, but in a manner to deleting each possibility...as a process of elimination.

Willough, some common sense remarks here, but to be fair, the majority of sleuthing that could be done on this case probably came to a bit of a halt shortly after Allison's body had been found. There is only so much one can do from the sidelines and without being privy to the same info and interviews and testing that Police are, well its kind of like groundhoug day in many ways..

The most sideline players can sleuth is the private lives of the people involved in this case and see where that takes you, but really, that offers no realistic nor case specific clues to this crime. Its pure speculation, gossip, hearsay and a guessing game from the outside loooking in.

respectfully

 

[willough]

Understand completetely mountainhigh about the groundhog day. Thus why it would be nice, if we could touch on other people.

This is definitely going around in circles...and instead of this being a thread for Allison.....It seems to be more a thread for Gerard.

 

[Elspeth]

I know I shall be criticized for writing this, but what if Allison was walking either at night or very early morning and a car the same as their cars pulled up either ahead or alongside of her and she went to get in/or got in thinking it was her husband.
I know it is possible as it happened to me once. I had gone to a venue at night and had arranged with my partner to pick me up at a designated spot. I went to exactly the same model/color car and got in, only to find myself next to a complete stranger who was waiting for someone else. Even though it turned out fine it was still scary all the same...

 

[Portsmouth71]

I know I shall be criticized for writing this, but what if Allison was walking either at night or very early morning and a car the same as their cars pulled up either ahead or alongside of her and she went to get in/or got in thinking it was her husband.
I know it is possible as it happened to me once. I had gone to a venue at night and had arranged with my partner to pick me up at a designated spot. I went to exactly the same model/color car and got in, only to find myself next to a complete stranger who was waiting for someone else. Even though it turned out fine it was still scary all the same...

Not convinced century 21 has gone out of business yet, phone was answered by a male when I phoned there this am

 

[marlywings]

Marlywings I am speaking of THEIR body language in pics with him. IMO a person capable of murder isn't a decent person and surely wouldn't be adored by 3 children. Children are very very in tune with their surroundings and can pick up their parents moods or behaviours easier than we give them credit for and if GBC was violent or had a hidden jeckyl and hyde persona then his children would have picked up on that and wouldn't be as warm towards him. I just find it interesting that ALL the family pics I have seen of him shows a very loving attentive man with kids that clearly adore him. I am not saying he can't be guilty it is just something very apparent to me. Do we know what Arthur Freeman's daughter thought of him?

I'm quite sure Arthur Freeman's daughter loved & adored him ...just as he would have loved & adored her.....going by photos from that case.

Just because a person appears to be loving & the "life of the old party"....doesn't mean they're incapable of killing another person.

 

[itsthevibe]

Thanks. I agree with your first paragraph, and understand that. But I was responding to the statement (by another poster) 'But when you have been basically a media *advertiser censored* all your life - and now you want them to go away under the pretext of maintaining 'normalacy' it makes us all a bit curious and wonder what is motivating this change.' I did not agree with that statement. Maybe it was meant in a different context. But I did not agree that because you promote yourself through business, that it is wrong then to not want to face them in a pretty horrific personal situation. Of course I would want to thank whomever for helping me to search for a lost loved one(but again this may be through a statement from someone else, if I was unable to myself). And understand your sentiments on this.

I actually think there probably was speculation against at least the husband from the beginning. So not sure about the seige mentality from the beginning when there had been no speculation.

I am not saying everything can be explained away as 'everyone reacts different' and 'we don't know'. However it is Fact that people do react to different situations differently, based on their personality, upbringing and many other factors. And it is also fact that 'we don't know' much of the facts. Please don't get me wrong I have had many of the same suspicions as many throughout this case. But it does not mean I am going to judge everyone the same way or outright accuse or denigrate people involved when I don't understand it or don't know for fact.

I try not to judge others when I am not walking in their shoes. Because I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of that.

I won't say anymore on this. Cause I am not trying to start an arguement. Everyone has their opinions and I think we are all entitled to express them within TOS.

Thanks for your comments, I know you are not trying to start an argument - there is a difference between sniping and debating. Perhaps we and others are arguing on this point, but not in a bad way IMO. I still disagree with you on some of your points, and think I could pick apart the areas in which I do but I think you are right, we have probably hashed this over too many times!

I have to say I do appreciate the discussions with you because, even though you frequently irritate and annoy me :loveyou:, and I disagree with you more than I agree with you, I can see you are a sincere person who is genuine in your thoughtful commitment to your point of view. And it seems to me you are actually trying to discuss Allison and the case for a positive outcome, to further the discussion in ways you think are helpful, and you do it in a peaceful way. This makes a huge difference to the forum. Actually I think most people on here can cope with disagreement harmoniously, it's the intent and the agenda behind it that is important.

 

[mountainhigh]

Interesting observation - it really backs up what a friend of mine who had met in at several functions had to say about finding him 'delightful' (a point which, earlier, caused an indignant flurry of posts!). She, too, had the gut feeling that he wouldn't be up to it (for want of a better phrase).

your friend was entitled to her opinion and perhaps she did find him to be charming and delightful (chunder) but there have been more than enough people, (dozens in fact), who have said that they have met him socially (me included) and found his persona to be of 'try hard' or 'wannanbe' nature coupled with disingenuos.
This thread has been going now for 5 weeks and I would say your comment about your friend's opinion is in stark contrast to the overwhelming majority of other people who have had some sort of contact with him.
As in probably only 1 positive comment out of about 20-30 people/comments that have had direct contact with GBC.
So I am afraid we live in a majority rules society, hence the indifference and sceptisim about your sole positive comment on charming and delightful...

It may be worthwhile to agree with the majority just on one or two occasssions, especially where the subject matter is not about his guilt or innocence in a murder! But a character reference..

Incidently, Ted Bundy was apparently a very pleasant, charming, meak and mild individual to meet in person..

 

[Bayside]

I know I shall be criticized for writing this, but what if Allison was walking either at night or very early morning and a car the same as their cars pulled up either ahead or alongside of her and she went to get in/or got in thinking it was her husband.
I know it is possible as it happened to me once. I had gone to a venue at night and had arranged with my partner to pick me up at a designated spot. I went to exactly the same model/color car and got in, only to find myself next to a complete stranger who was waiting for someone else. Even though it turned out fine it was still scary all the same...

Good a new theory... thanks.

 

[mountainhigh]

Not convinced century 21 has gone out of business yet, phone was answered by a male when I phoned there this am

This is to be expected. They will still have houses under contract that are yet to be finalised, still taking in rental monies and general communication with existing clients. Would highly doubt they would be able to assist you however had you asked to get someone out because you wanted to list your property with them!
I would suspect that same phone number you have just rung will not be answered in about 2-3 weeks from now or thereabouts.
Its called tidying up loose ends or unfinished business.
This type of business, unlike a 7-11 store, you cannot simply walk out of in a matter of minutes..

 

[kiwi50]

True - but, if 'the stalker' was someone who did know ABC (and was a colleague/friend/lover/business connection/'rejected' would-be paramour, local community member, etc, etc), the police might be aware of this. To my way of thinking, a stalker usually (or very often) has a particular 'target' in mind. This being the case, he/she would not be a danger to the wider community - at least, one would probably assume not, anyway.

Is this your theory? Can you please expand on it? Did GBC know of the stalker?
At what point did the stalker catch Allison, do you think he waited outside her house on the off chance that she might walk late at night or did he arrive early in the morning? Was Allison aware she had a stalker? And finally why did the stalker want to kill her?
This is the problem when you deviate from the K.I.S.S. formula, it always complicates things and involves coming up with more and more unlikely scenarios.

 

[Schmickthespy]

I'm quite sure Arthur Freeman's daughter loved & adored him ...just as he would have loved & adored her.....going by photos from that case.

Just because a person appears to be loving & the "life of the old party"....doesn't mean they're incapable of killing another person.

It is merely an OBSERVATION. You are forgetting that we KNOW Arthur threw his daughter from the bridge but we DO NOT know for a fact that GBC harmed his wife. I also never said that he is incapable of killing someone. I am exploring all angles and not here to just flame GBC like certain people here.

 

[CaseClosed]

Thanks. I am not forgetting. But I was not actually saying if he is found not guilty. So basically in some peoples mind regardless of whether he is found not guilty or not. He is still hung drawn and quartered? lol.

I can understand having an opinion on his guilty. Not though to the point that nothing is going to sway you any other way ever, even without the facts and even if found not guilty?

If someone else is proven to be guilty(not saying that will happen). Then surely he can be afforded some compassion or at least//'let off the hook'?

I agree. If someone else is found guilty, then people will probably feel very sorry for him and all the speculation that he was subjected to.

 

[mayday]

If GBC had never done that TV interview, I'd probably not be so convinced that he was the person the police should be interested in.

Just putting it out there.... Do we know where GBC and his sister had come from when the interview was done? In my understanding after he had the accident he was hospitailised and probably medicated (from my past experience they dont just keep you in hospital if you arent in a bad way - and he had reason to be his wife was missing, his business was going under, he just crashed a friends car).
He has been in the media for all the good reasons before and probably has rehearsed the interviews before doing it.

I am sure when doing that interview he was feeling very vulnerable, probably still medicated, and not the self assured person people had seen before.

 

[Schmickthespy]

Actually Marlywings this is the ONLY pic I could find of Arthur and Darcy Freeman and just look at HER body language and maybe you will see what I mean???? Now look at all pics of Gerard and his daughters and THEIR body language and see again. http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=a...l/arthur-freeman-guilty-of-darceys-murder/211

 

[Heyerdahl]

your friend was entitled to her opinion and perhaps she did find him to be charming and delightful (chunder) but there have been more than enough people, (dozens in fact), who have said that they have met him socially (me included) and found his persona to be of 'try hard' or 'wannanbe' nature coupled with disingenuos.
This thread has been going now for 5 weeks and I would say your comment about your friend's opinion is in stark contrast to the overwhelming majority of other people who have had some sort of contact with him.
As in probably only 1 positive comment out of about 20-30 people/comments that have had direct contact with GBC.
So I am afraid we live in a majority rules society, hence the indifference and sceptisim about your sole positive comment on charming and delightful...

It may be worthwhile to agree with the majority just on one or two occasssions, especially where the subject matter is not about his guilt or innocence in a murder! But a character reference..

Incidently, Ted Bundy was apparently a very pleasant, charming, meak and mild individual to meet in person..

Nope - I'm not throwing my lot in with 'the majority' on this one. Why should I?! I have never met the guy myself, so I remain just as open to the outcome of the police investigations regarding GBC as I do to their investigations into anyone else who may be in their hare sights.
P.S. Famous cases in history of going with 'majority opinion' include the mass catastrophes and human suffering brought about by Adolf Hitler, Chairman Mao and Joseph Stalin (et al).

 

[possumheart]

I know I shall be criticized for writing this, but what if Allison was walking either at night or very early morning and a car the same as their cars pulled up either ahead or alongside of her and she went to get in/or got in thinking it was her husband.

'"There's Allison's neighbour from across the road, jogging along Brookfield Rd at dusk.

"I never met her," she says. "We only saw her walking past on her walks. I've been thinking about that. Mainly about how sad it is."'

http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/tears-for-girl-next-door/story-fn6ck45n-1226347238522

lease:

 

[mountainhigh]

Is this your theory? Can you please expand on it? Did GBC know of the stalker?
At what point did the stalker catch Allison, do you think he waited outside her house on the off chance that she might walk late at night or did he arrive early in the morning? Was Allison aware she had a stalker? And finally why did the stalker want to kill her?
This is the problem when you deviate from the K.I.S.S. formula, it always complicates things and involves coming up with more and more unlikely scenarios.

very true and well said kiwi50, but it depends who's payroll you are on now doesn't it!! And to add also:
-Police believe the killer was known to Allison
-police have not issued warnings to residents of a random physcho/stalker/madman/nutjob on the loose.

If a stalker can kill once then they can kill again. Hell,, he might have had a stable of stalkees LOL

there are holes alll over this theory and all the others that come out of this camp..nice try though..

 

[CaseClosed]

I feel we need to look at all avenues....I think we are pretty poor sleutheres if the only people we sleuth are anyone who may have screwed Gerard (other than his wife) and anyone who may now or in the past had the surname Baden-Clay........It is rather lacking to just look at that angle, isn't it?

and PS : yeah, why not. Had GBC had been lovely to the camera, or spoken more lovely about Allison.....would we have dismissed him so easily?....NOOOO. Why dismiss others?

The problem is that nothing reported so far points to someone else. But, for the sake of your exercise, I personally don't think there was any business type person that could have a motive against her AND the opportunity, therefore I'm left with a personal type motive. A lover? A vengeful friend? Who?! We don't know much about anything with her acquaintances to be able to point the finger at someone else.

 

[itsthevibe]

I know I shall be criticized for writing this, but what if Allison was walking either at night or very early morning and a car the same as their cars pulled up either ahead or alongside of her and she went to get in/or got in thinking it was her husband.
I know it is possible as it happened to me once. I had gone to a venue at night and had arranged with my partner to pick me up at a designated spot. I went to exactly the same model/color car and got in, only to find myself next to a complete stranger who was waiting for someone else. Even though it turned out fine it was still scary all the same...

No criticism, just questions. Do you think the police are on the wrong track in saying that they believe the murderer is someone known to Allison, someone close to home? They have already told us we need not be concerned about a murderer on the loose who might attack or kill others.

I suppose it's not impossible for there to be someone else known to Allison close to home with the same car, but I feel it's stretching the point. What do you think? Do you think the police may have made a giant stuff-up?

 

[Mani]

I think it takes courage to go against the tide of the majority, so to the people posting on here today who are trying to explore some other angles........good on you for having the courage of your convictions and for bringing in a sense of balance.