Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #2

[ozprincessinoz]

So many experts zzzzzzzzzz ..... Starting to get boring. Comical some people here think the police are reading most of this crap. Stick to watching CSI ..... Cheap shots on the family are pretty tacky - all will be revealed and I have the utmost confidence in the lead detective ... Clearly he's been around and they're damned clever!

While the Dickie family have been nothing but dignified throughout, the same cannot be said for the Baden-Clay family and the way they have conducted themselves. No-one is claiming to be an expert, just voicing their ideas and feelings. Unfortunately the Baden-Clay family have given the majority of people 'bad vibes'. IMHO

 

[Nads]

So what ? Are all scouts murderers? Can we restrict posts to adults only.

What the?

Someone was just saying they didn't think he had been a scout, so connections to a scout hall or camp weren't relevent. So I was correcting. You need to keep up.

BTW my son was a scout, my brother is a Queens Scout and I went all through the girl's version of scouts, so I love scouting!!

What was the adults only comment meaning?

 

[True]

Just some interesting facts aside from the case. These apply specifically to Aust.

Male to Female (victim) intimate homicide is the most predominant of the group.
The female is unlikely to work outside the home.
Past criminal record does not have much of an impact.
Mean age of offender is 36.
Most commonly occur in the home.
Goal is to suppress the victim. A third of the conflicts are associated with jealousy or ending the relationship approx 60% are general domestic arguments (revenge).

Apparently intimate homicides occur almost exclusively on days other than Saturday and occur between 6pm and 6 am.

Offender uses a gun or sharp instrument or strangles.

No wonder alarm bells were ringing for the Police.

Yes, I was listening to the radio this morning and they were talking about this. Interestingly only 1 in 7 intimate homicides are carried out by women, and women are more likely to plan it out instead of committing a crime in the heat of the moment.

 

[marlywings]

Just rewinding for a minute. This is probably the last I remember reading about the screams heard in that area on the night Allison went missing.

"It was like if someone was screaming and someone kept a hand over their mouth," he told The Sunday Mail, in an account being treated seriously by police as they probe the mum-of-three's disappearance.

http://www.news.com.au/national/scr...en-clay-vanished/story-e6frfkvr-1226341708599

 

[Liadan]

In most cases of Intimate Homicide (IH) the dispute expands to include members of the extended family (parents of ABC) to assume a protective role of the abused. This rift often causes a division of the family loyalties and polarisation of families. (which we have observed)

 

[willough]

Just got back and caught up on 7 pages and I notice the messy sniping that is going on. I don't think it is totally caused by people having egos that are too big and not accepting that people disagree with them. Well not on both sides, anyway.

I think the biggest problem is that a few people, and only a few, decide to be sarcastic when challenged and write in a superior tone if people either disagree with them, or post anything, that in their opinion, isn't fact.

It happened to me this morning and it was a shame, because the person who did it has some great insights but often spoils the quality of his own posts by descending into being the decreer of what's right to say or not to say on here. I stopped short of saying - "Remember, you are not a Moderator".

This site has Mods and they do a great job, leave them to it! Or, we can, as a group, calm things down nicely by breaking the ice with humour, or gently voicing some concerns, as some have done. Now, the more temperate people are getting angry which is understandable but a shame it's come to that.

I also agree with whoever said that another factor is that everyone is getting frustrated with the lack of an arrest and information. I said as much last night, it was getting to me. This is a horrible situation.

As for those who have been condescending, or is it only 1 posing as 3 as someone suggested, I am asking for some reflection on your good selves. There are a lot of nice people on here and they can't all be wrong about the need for a bit of an attitude shift.

Spot on!!!!

I also think some of us have been watching and participating in this thread with bated breath, from the moment we have woken up, with some breaks, until bed time for a few days.....fair few days. It's taking it's toll on all of us in a slight 'obsessive' way. We all want this arrest. xx

 

[CaseClosed]

I usually find the questions go: 1. What school did you/husband/partner go to? 2. What school do your children go to? 3. Where do you live? 4. Yours/husbands occupation. I've never come across it before and have lived in other major cities. School is a definite preoccupation with Brisbaneites. IMOH

This happens everywhere. I lived 13 years in Sydney and 12 years in Cairns and the same questions were asked. I am originally from another country and its the same situation there. "Appearances" are very important for some people.

 

[CaseClosed]

In most cases of Intimate Homicide (IH) the dispute expands to include members of the extended family (parents of ABC) to assume a protective role of the abused. This rift often causes a division of the family loyalties and polarisation of families. (which we have observed)

Additionally, if the parents of the victim suspected that there might have been domestic violence in the past (or new for a fact).

 

[itsthevibe]

I was going to do a recap of a few things and answer a few questions asked, but getting too tired and still haven't eaten - so I'll just stick to one thing for now.

I have expressed concern twice now about whether they are going to be able to get enough evidence to charge someone. My concern is lack of evidence which can be obtained from the body due to its submersion in water for so long. I know they can still get a lot of things from it but maybe not a lot that is actually relevant enough to point to a particular person. Some of the crucial things are so much harder or almost impossible now.

I only saw one news report tonight as I was out, but it said the police think it could be at least a week before they will have the forensics they need or something like that. I am thinking that a lot more work has to be done because of the state of the body and the difficulty, so they have to resort to much more advanced methods to try to get something. I am very concerned that they won't get enough to point to a particular person.

Going back to comments made somewhere in this new thread about why the search was started so quickly, and the report from the police that they had made 'certain observations' which gave them concern or whatever, I personally think those observations might have been the scratches. (maybe other things too) He had a big scratch on his face near the eye, and it looked like possibly scratches on his wrist, so whatever they observed may have caused immediate suspicion, in conjunction with their knowledge of the AVO.

I am just hoping that if Allison has scratched and clawed at him to stop him strangling her, or throwing her off the bridge, or whatever, that there is evidence under her fingernails which is still traceable.

I don't know the bridge that well - although I've driven on that road plenty of times I dont do it regularly so can't recall - could she have been alive and thrown over the bridge and died from the impact, thereby it looking like she could have committed suicide? Maybe a silly question as I've probably missed something but I'm sure others can clarify or give an opinion. One thought I had was the scratch marks on his chest and wrist and faint red marks on one of his hands were because she was grabbing onto him to stop herself falling.

I originally thought the scratch marks would be more in keeping with her struggling to stop him strangling her, but if she was strangled I would have thought the forensics wouldnt take so long, because you can see damage to the neck/spine. I guess they still have to be completely thorough.

 

[aussiesleuth]

I have found most people on here to be considerate of others and their opinions, but everyone can have a bad day.
This case is quite horrific, but I do feel justice will be served, and an arrest is imminent, IMO

 

[Liadan]

We need really need to stay on topic! Come on everyone! Back to the analysis and leave the pithy smarts out of it.

 

[indogwetrust]

I also agree with whoever said that another factor is that everyone is getting frustrated with the lack of an arrest and information. I said as much last night, it was getting to me. This is a horrible situation.

Good point and if it is getting to us, which it obviously is, then wonder how it is getting to the person who did this, they must be near cracking point, surely?

 

[Zorro]

My observations.

Parking a car across at the showgrounds is something you might do to walk into the house undetected by neighbours who might recall what time a car went in and/or so not to disturb people in the house for the same reason (not sure when the car was found there).

The roundabout is part of the logical route between family homes. The police might want to verify CCTV evidence of known cars on that route between 11:30pm - 4am in either direction.

I think there are two crimes, unlawful homicide and disposing of a body and they may not be committed by the same person/people. [I tried to carry an unconcious drunk person off a lawn once and they were so floppy in arms legs and head with zero muscle tone it was impossible, it's not like carrying a concious or semi-concious person. As a reasonably fit person I don't think I could dispose of a body with much efficiency alone.]

I think the tide on the Brisbane River near Kholo Creek would have been low at about 3:30am that night so a body thrown from the bridge might rise and be left by the high tide.

Police procedure surely must be to assume the innocence of all parties until there is clear verifiable evidence implicating the perpetrators. The process is not to decide who is guilty and then find appropriate evidence - the case wouldn't last a day in court. They must have a million verifiable facts that trace the movements of the victim and all her family acquaintances and associated people to establish time of death, motive and opportunity and we have very few of those facts.

I find this forum really fascinating. Thank you.

 

[marlywings]

We need really need to stay on topic! Come on everyone! Back to the analysis and leave the pithy smarts out of it.

Yes I think so too as that nurseebee with the big needle will be around shortly.

 

[Greg]

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[BrizzychickinUSA]

I just woke....wots happened....????

wish you guys could txt me info

 

[aussiesleuth]

I was also thinking this reminds me of another Australian case, in which John Sharpe killed his pregnant wife, and told people she had run off with another man.
He then killed his young daughter with a spear gun, and disposed of their bodies at the local dump.
He made dramatic tv appearances, begging for her return, but eventually confessed, and was convicted.

 

[CaseClosed]

I was going to do a recap of a few things and answer a few questions asked, but getting too tired and still haven't eaten - so I'll just stick to one thing for now.

I have expressed concern twice now about whether they are going to be able to get enough evidence to charge someone. My concern is lack of evidence which can be obtained from the body due to its submersion in water for so long. I know they can still get a lot of things from it but maybe not a lot that is actually relevant enough to point to a particular person. Some of the crucial things are so much harder or almost impossible now.

I only saw one news report tonight as I was out, but it said the police think it could be at least a week before they will have the forensics they need or something like that. I am thinking that a lot more work has to be done because of the state of the body and the difficulty, so they have to resort to much more advanced methods to try to get something. I am very concerned that they won't get enough to point to a particular person.

Going back to comments made somewhere in this new thread about why the search was started so quickly, and the report from the police that they had made 'certain observations' which gave them concern or whatever, I personally think those observations might have been the scratches. (maybe other things too) He had a big scratch on his face near the eye, and it looked like possibly scratches on his wrist, so whatever they observed may have caused immediate suspicion, in conjunction with their knowledge of the AVO.

I am just hoping that if Allison has scratched and clawed at him to stop him strangling her, or throwing her off the bridge, or whatever, that there is evidence under her fingernails which is still traceable.

I don't know the bridge that well - although I've driven on that road plenty of times I dont do it regularly so can't recall - could she have been alive and thrown over the bridge and died from the impact, thereby it looking like she could have committed suicide? Maybe a silly question as I've probably missed something but I'm sure others can clarify or give an opinion. One thought I had was the scratch marks on his chest and wrist and faint red marks on one of his hands were because she was grabbing onto him to stop herself falling.

I originally thought the scratch marks would be more in keeping with her struggling to stop him strangling her, but if she was strangled I would have thought the forensics wouldnt take so long, because you can see damage to the neck/spine. I guess they still have to be completely thorough.

Sorry for being graphic: All autopsies follow a method to observe/examine/open the body. Even if there are visible signs on the outside, they still follow the whole procedure. What takes time is the blood/eye fluid/organ tissue samples analysis, which is why they don't give an official COD until all is finalised.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Just when things were starting to calm down.

Let's just draw a line in the sand and move on please.

True what some previously said about staying on topic.

 

[marlywings]

I think the tide on the Brisbane River near Kholo Creek would have been low at about 3:30am that night so a body thrown from the bridge might rise and be left by the high tide.

The tide time is an interesting point Zorro. I'll see if I can find it again but there was a photo of police on the bridge. Cop taking photos appeared to have his tripod set up right towards the end of the bridge. In another photo the banks of the creek look very wide, if she'd been thrown from the bridge she may have initially been on the waters edge.