Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #7

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Its been very interesting reading all the different aspects and views on this case from facts to what certain characteristics, statements or events may or may not mean.

There was an interesting quote today in the Herald Sun from Ted Duhs who was a lecturer in criminal studies.

"A murder is about theories, who the perpetrator was, what the motive was and so on," he said. "I noticed the investigating detective said he did not believe it was a random killing - and if that is true then they have eliminated at least one theory."

I thought it might be interesting to summarize what had been identified on this site and in the news and see what theories of other information or assessments people make when everything is looked at holistically.

My theories of why the events might show guilt or innocence are below. Whilst I respect peoples rights to make a judgement or lean strongly one way or the other, personally I prefer to see more facts but would love to hear what others have heard, read etc that might point more strongly one way or the other.

1. Alison went out for a late / early morning walk.
Innocent: They had an argument and she went out for a walk late or they slept separately that night and she went out for her usual early morning walk; and met misadventure at the hands of another person known or unknown
Guilty: It was an excuse to explain her absence.

2. He waited until the next morning to call the police.
Innocent: If they had an argument he presumed she might have gone to a local friends place to “cool down” and would come home – or he fell asleep waiting for her because he was angry too.
Guilty: He didn’t want to leave it too long before appearing worried about her absence.

3.He contacted a lawyer early in the situation.
Innocent: He contacted the lawyer initially about a divorce out of anger. He realised when his wife did not return that statistically as her husband he was the most likely suspect. (Noting according to the FBI 26% of women killed are killed by husbands or boyfriends – interestingly 75% of people know their murderer).
Guilty: He realised he had done something wrong and wanted to make sure he was represented early.

4. The children had been staying with their grandparents.
Innocent: He wanted to keep them away from the glare of cameras and stickybeaks and from the investigations of the police in the home.
Guilty: As per innocent but he potentially wanted to deny police opportunistic chances to talk to the children and ascertain further information that might be incriminating.

5. He’s lost weight.
Innocent: He is stressed over the situation and grieving for his wife.
Guilty: He is stressed over the situation and worried about being caught.

6. She was found within relatively close proximity of their home (10km).
Innocent: She was out for a walk and another person known or unknown killed her locally and disposed of her locally. (Noting it still hasn't been released if she was left there or the rain took her there).
Guilty: He knew the area and either wanted to use the river to dispose of her or thought the location remote enough that detection was unlikely.

7. He was having an affair (possible motivation)
Innocent: They argued over it and she stormed out – possibly threatening divorce and to take him to the cleaners (see lawyer issue).
Guilty: She threatened divorce and to take him to the cleaners or they just argued about it and he snapped.

8. He wasn’t a pall bearer.
Innocent: He could not face carrying his dead wife’s body and/or wanted to be with his daughters. (I don’t find this odd I have been to a number of funerals where it was not the closest family members who were pall bearers.)
Guilty: He felt guilt or did not want to potentially antagonise other family members whose suspicious are correct.

9. His in-laws gave him no attention at the church.
Innocent: They were too grief stricken themselves to deal with or sympathise with the grief of another adult. (I have seen this at a funeral when a parent died and an adult child and the other parent were too caught up in their own grief and did not acknowledge each other at the funeral.)
Guilty: They think he is guilty and cannot bear to deal with him directly.

10. He did not say a eulogy.
Innocent: He was too distraught to talk (Seen this at a funeral too where a young father was too upset to talk at his son’s funeral, and another where a husband was too upset to say anything about his wife of 45 years).
Guilty: He felt guilt and knew he either could not pull off a convincing eulogy or it would antagonise other family members who suspected his guilt.

11. The police responded early and with a significant response. (In less then 24hrs the SED and police were both involved.)
Innocent: Gerard either heard something from another party that indicated something concerning had happened or police found early evidence of foul play by a person other than Gerard.
Guilty: Gerard admitted they had argued or gave the police cause to be suspicious or there was other evidence from the neighbours or other sources eg. a local security camera that arouse suspicions.

12. His early public calls for help were self directed.
Innocent: He’s self absorbed but not guilty and/or in a state of stress/grief was not clearly articulating his real intent.
Guilty: He has psychopathic tendencies and was trying to manipulate the situation and as a result of his ego thought what he was saying things that were expected.

13. The police were interested in a white car like the Baden Clay’s going around the roundabout.
Innocent:There was some indication she had been seen in the family car after the argument with Gerard/leaving the home which might indicate she had been out more than once that night and met with someone else leading to her later death.
Guilty: The police have some evidence possibly security camera footage or evidence on car tyres that shows the car may have been used on the night of her disappearance.

14. The police did a thorough check of the house.
Innocent: Its standard procedure and normal for the spouse to be eliminated first.
Guilty: The police were looking for something specific or more evidence due to strong suspicions.

15. Residents 4km away heard creams that appeared to become muffled.
Innocent: It was Allison being assaulted by someone else, or was in unrelated argument that ended badly; either whilst on her walk or after meeting up with a third party.
Guilty: Gerard had taken her out in the car for reasons unknown and either intentionally or as an escalation of an existing argument purposefully or accidentally killed her.
 
I got the shock of my life a few months ago and my body and mind didn't work together very well for a few weeks. Be kind to these people. Any way you look at it, they have had a big shock.
 
Deebly....Thanks for your post. It is nice to look at things from all perspectives...and you sure have done that. Do post again :)

Again, thanxabunch :)
 
Thanks Deebly for your insights which I think are pretty spot on. I didnt quote because it is so long. The only thing I would add to some of the comments would be 'OR was advised by his legal team'
 
Hi Willough, FWIW ...

Life goes on. The Dickies' lives must go on and those of the children and all those trying to help the children. Meals are being cooked, dishes and clothes washed, groceries purchased, even a bit of tv watching goes on. And that's the immediate family

So many cases have passed beneath the bridge. So many fora filled with comments -- months, even years of them, in each case

I look back now at all the fora I am or have been member of. All the atrocious crimes. All the sleuthing, online discussions. Thousands of hours. Madeleine McCann. Zahra Baker. Joanna Yeates being just a few

The months and years pass and you remember how absorbing it was. But in the end, it's out of our hands. Trial dates are set. Sometimes trials are televised. Sometimes the culprit is sentenced. Other times they walk free

Through it all, we have our own families, right under our noses. Time and opportunity we'll never get back

In months or years to come, you'll remember some of the time you spent here. By then, the case will have been dealt with by the law. You might come across this forum in your Favourites. And believe it or not, this case will probably leave you with something of a bad taste in your mouth. It will taste like dust. You might regard your current preoccupation with the case as being something of an aberration. By then, you'll have no emotional attachment and you might wish you hadn't devoted so much of your life and time to it

because you have your own life and your own family and they're alive now. Every minute spent here is a minute you take from your own life and family and they're minutes you couldn't buy back for millions of dollars once your children are grown or at the end of your own life

Wow, great post - certainly puts things into perspective!

Many posters have admitted to being obsessed with this case, and forum.

For me, I really don't want to believe this horrible thing has happened. I don't want to believe that a father may possibly have done this - taken his children's mother away from them. I do not want to think the family that are meant to nurture, love, protect these children could have been involved in covering this up. IF they did it, how could they look at these little girls without feeling guilt and remorse. And IF they did it I dearly want them to be with Allison's parents - who will love and cherish them, as Allison would have.

And when this is over I will raise a glass to the QPS, for their tireless efforts in finding the people that have done this. There are people out there that think they are above the law, and they can get away with murder.

And the QPS are there to say NO YOU ARE NOT, AND NO YOU CAN'T.

Beautifully put, Laserdisc10 - thank you!
 
this face to face intense and prolonged act is what made me state earlier that I simply can't imagine GBC doing it....it is just so incredibly cold blooded and he doesnt come across like he has the capacity. I can't really say why I feel this but do feel it really strongly. It's not just his somewhat feminine demeanour (probably not the right description but I dont know how else to put it) I am also aware that this is often done by husbands against their wives so my thoughts about this don't really make sense I know

Maybe that's because he hasn't matured as a man and in some modes has a sweet, childlike quality. Sometimes these types are also very vulnerable but that is also what can make them so dangerous. I had a partner like this who was abusive so i know how duplicitous they can be. It's almost like they are 2 people. My ex-partner was spoken of as "a sweetie" and "like a big cuddly teddybear" by some women at his work and other women who knew him, one of them even said to me "he's so sweet he wouldn't hurt a fly". Little did they know how he had treated me and spoken to me.

I also think that with GBC there could be an element of him being totally out of his depth in that family - a family possibly where the men have a history of being tough warriors, big game hunters and the like. I suspect poor Gerard has been trying to live up to this all his life and he never really succeeds. He's tried to create a semblance of success but in a way it's all been very flimsy. How could he ever please Daddy now that his business is failing and his parents has mortgaged their house for it? He would be very, very angry and already feel a failure. (IMO)

Again this is exactly what my ex was like, he could never please his father and his family and especially the men were very rough and tough. As a result he was very angry but he would never stand up to his father, he directed his anger at women instead.

It's all quite sad, but it's even sadder for, in this case, Allison and her girls and parents.
 
I wore sunglasses to my own fathers funeral. At the time I didnt give a flying fridge who it offended and I still dont. People judge for anything you do so i did what I wanted at the time and coped the only way I knew how, and that was by hiding. I didnt want anyone looking at me, talking to me, feeling sorry for me. I just wanted to hide. I was just discussing it with my bf today and Im pretty sure I didnt take them off during the service either. I was the closest to my Dad out of anyone there, so if my sunnies offended anyone, who cares, thats their problem. I wasnt there to socialise, I was there for my Dad not them. Just sayin. I cannot believe people are dissecting people at a funeral, now THAT is horrid.

I have worn sunnies to funerals, because of the red swollen eyes from crying. Nothing wrong with that IMO.
 
Hard to know if there was any wrapping or not, if the site was further upstream. Lots of water turbulance on the journey could have removed things.

Strangulation has a couple of mechanisms - compressing airways so you can't breathe and occluding both carotid arteries and jugular veins, to prevent blood flow to/from brain. These require sustained pressure (more for airway than blood vessels because airways are more rigid structures).

What's significant though, is that it needs to be applied for a lot longer to kill someone than render them unconscious (if they pass out and pressure is removed they'll just start breathing again, blood flow resumes, which is why you can't manually strangle yourself, or die from holding your breath). This is where it gets really disturbing - the victim is already limp and unresponsive but the strangulation needs to continue well beyond that to be fatal.

(btw in RL I'm a healthcare professional, not a murderer, just fyi :) )

This is what I mean! If the COD is strangulation then I hope i don't have to hear anyone say "it wasn't intentional" again. However we don't know yet.

God, I am so sick of the waiting! I know the police are doing an amazing job i have absolute faith in them, and they are making sure of everything for absolutely the best of reasons, but this is getting so hard. I'm a wreck! But I shouldnt complain, at least I am alive.
 
a few pages back someone suggested that the reason GBC may be spending so much time at work is that he is in fact wrapping up the business

they could be right - my friend's neighbour had her house listed for sale with C21 and a sales rep went to see them today and told them they couldn't sell the house anymore!
 
Nah, they just log on to us ..... most up to date info - first port of call - Websleuths! Seen the stats on this site...

I can assure you this absolutely isn't the case. Why wade through thousands of posts lookings for grains of truth when you have first-hand access to primary sources of information?

Tongue in cheek...

I don't think the press are taking too much notice of what is said here - I have not seen reports of a man circumnavigating Kenmore Roundabout on a girls bike wearing a blond wig.

Not that I don't doubt for one minute someone out there isn't following, because we seem to be constantly reminded that we are going to have the pants sued off us.

We are all well aware of the fact the QPS are the ones with the information that may solve this case : )
 
I'm getting the feeling the female:male ratio in here is at least 3:1

*passing chocolates & pouring wine*
 
There was a landmark case a few years back that led to a gov't ad campaign about "a single punch can kill", instigated by the sister of someone who died that way. The upshot of that is that it is harder to use that as defence now, because it can be considered public knowledge.

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/cscp/personalSafety/youth/onePunch.htm

That's good to know, and makes a lot of sense. Goes more to the idea of personal responsibility too which i think is so important.
 
I haven't done a lot of posting lately. Mostly that's because there hasn't been a lot to to talk about. No new information released by the police or the media. I've kind of skipped through the posts, missing some pages completely. I think that it was just becoming a bit overwhelming, thinking about Allison all the time, feeling helpless and clueless. However finding a link to the Tulley blog was very exciting today. So I went back and read over a few more posts.

Seriously, some of you are so clever, witty and hilarious. Some of you frustrate me, some of you I'd love to share a bottle of wine with, some of you I just want to marry.

Well we love you too! And very glad you're back. I hope I'm not one of the frustrating ones, but guess I can live with it if I am :sigh:
 
Awww thank you :coffeecup:

Sometimes I think I'm a bit too emotional for all of this. However the belief that someone will be arrested for Allison's murder keeps me coming back.

I have high hopes that some of the earlier crew who haven't been posting of late will find their way back once an arrest is made. Then we can all talk about what's happening, and hopefully debrief and let go of some sadness and anger.

Yes, and Mrs G Norris comes to mind, and a few others.
 
Well we love you too! And very glad you're back. I hope I'm not one of the frustrating ones, but guess I can live with it if I am :sigh:

I cant imagine you would be....I get frustrated at times (at various people), but you know i'm only ever frustrated with them for a minute or so....or during one post...........then I read the same persons next post and agree with that next point anyways....It's not usually a good idea to feel frustrated at one person for too long....It aint good for the good ole health. :fence:
 
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