Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #9

[maevelorg]

To be honest I don't think we can substantiate that a solicitor was engaged on day one - unless I have missed the relevant report?

The first I read about the engagement of a solicitor was about 5 or so days in when Darren Mahoney made his first statement to the media on GBC's behalf. Then the SC was engaged the day Allison was found.

The talk about engaging legal rep on the first day is speculation/gossip as far as I know.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

Hi there, Just to clarify this was discussed extensively in a previous thread (possibly 3/4?) .. but essentially the facts are he hired a top criminal defence lawyer the same day he reported his wife missing. Hope this helps!

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/newshome/13650017/baden-clay-killer-may-have-had-accomplice/

There is unsubstantiated (local) information that the lawyer was actually at the home when the police came to record missing person details. There is also speculation that the lawyer is a personal friend that GBC went to school with some years ago.

 

[DunnoZo]

Here's my theory for the two cars seen at Kholo. Which is the first thing I've been able to come up with that provides a decent motivation for accomplice involvement. The way I see it, unless a 2nd person was involved in murder planning or discussion from the start, it still seems a bit of a stretch to call up a lover or relative late at night to help dispose of a murder victim.


(1) Perp goes out into bush - leaves car lights on for illumination while dragging body down to river.

(2)Flattens battery (or something else that stops car starting - wet distributor?).

(3)Has to call for help at this point, cos otherwise he's stuck in very compromising situation - HAS to get out of there. Can't call RACQ, no way to do it alone. Calls for help with breakdown story.

(4)Person comes out to help, maybe for some reason they can't jump start car(no cables?) but has to tow back instead?

(5) Eventually gets home and is able to charge battery (maybe jump leads are in other BC car) so when police turn up the next morning, car is charged and they can drive it off for testing ok

So accomplice may not have helped with body at all, but just went to help with car breakdown. They'd see through the story soon enough, but there are reasons for them to just go along with it for the moment:

(a) you're out in the bush alone with guy you realise is a murderer - only sane choice is to help him and stay in his good books until you get back to town
(b)you don't realise what was happening until a day later when he reports wife missing, then you suddenly realise what he was doing out there, and that you're now an unknowing accomplice, having already given significant assistance?

And then even a quite innocent person can be in a dilemma over what to do next, since you'd just helped cover up a murder.

And a less innocent person might have financial motivations, eg Ali's death will cause financial dramas and if it's found to be murder the life insurance will not be going to the original recipient. Other family members' home was mortgaged for business loan so if all that falls through there's quite a motivation for family to help cover up.

Well said. This is a lot like how I'm thinking too, moo.

 

[Maxymoo]

Hi BrizzychickinUSA,

Yes, in some situations, simple association with another person known to police is apparently sufficient reason for an officer to insist on a search. This happened to my brother once. He happened to stop and talk to a friend in a city street in passing just to say g'day, in the middle of a lovely sunny day. The friend had prior convictions so a police officer decided their apparent association was enough reason to physically search my brother. My brother's long hair and happy hello attracted police attention. Sad but true.

It all comes down to interpretation of the word reasonable. Police can search anything and anyone if they have reasonable suspicion. EG If police attend a Domestic Dispute no time to apply for a warrant Reasonably suspect offence is taking place can hear yelling etc they enter.
Open the door can smell pot reasonably suspect offence Old mate smells like pot reasonably suspect he has some in his pocket. Pull up a car for RBT there's a TV in the back seat reasonably suspect its stolen search his car. Turns out he was just moving:rocker:
house. Oh well ......:floorlaugh:
Only need a JP to sign most warrants. Can be a nasty neighbour rings crime stoppers and says your a drug dealer. Depending on the individual officer could form reasonable suspicion. And of course every now and then they get the wrong house.:moo:

 

[coffeechick]

I'm a newbie - I have read most of the posts over the last few days - it is very intriguing - IMO I feel that although GBC comes across at times 'guilty' in his ways - that does not necessary mean he is. Like Lindy Chamberlain came across guilty of those things as well. I believe he knows who did it though - my thoughts are that he and ABC had a huge argument on the night she disappeared. What about I don't know... maybe the affair, maybe she told him she had enough of it all and was going to leave and take the girls - this certainly would have thrown a spanner in the financial works of things - She took off for a walk to air her head - he may have rung his parents to let them know of this huge argument and what ABC was going to do - NBC goes out to look for her - maybe try and talk her round - he finds her near that Kenmore roundabout... they argue and he loses it and kills her. He either went out and dumped the body - maybe it was his car that needed help that night and he called for help in that dept. We had about 6 inches of rain during those days when ABC went missing. I live 5 minutes away from the bridge - so it was wet but certainly the river would have been slightly more flowing than usual. The body would not have been dumped from the bridge - anyone stopping on that bridge would hold up the traffic as it is only 2 lanes. At that particular time the sides of the bridge was very overgrown - it has since been cut and made more assessable but until then anyone would have seen tracks leading down from the bridge in that a car had been driven over the grass. I never saw any tracks and I pass over it practically 4 times a week. The driver would have taken the body onto the road further up that leads into the scout hall and different houses along there - and placed the body into the river where it would have floated down to where it was found. I feel GBC is inbetween a rock and a hard place in that he knows what probably happened and feels at fault as he had called his parents that night.

 

[BrizzychickinUSA]

does anyone else think allisons eyes look incredibly sad in this photo?
as though she has a broken heart and has suffered for years but holding it all together.
her girls would have been such a source of happiness for her
i cant copy and paste the photo but here is the link to it. it has been used a lot by the press, maybe it was the most recent photo of her given by the family to the police/press
http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/top/perth-now/hundreds-farewell-allison-baden-clay/665713

I thought she looked like she had been drinking wine at lunch

Never understood why this pic was used....

Re the affair allegations? Maybe? And then <modsnip> got jealous...

 

[Elspeth]

To be honest I don't think we can substantiate that a solicitor was engaged on day one - unless I have missed the relevant report?

The first I read about the engagement of a solicitor was about 5 or so days in when Darren Mahoney made his first statement to the media on GBC's behalf. Then the SC was engaged the day Allison was found.

The talk about engaging legal rep on the first day is speculation/gossip as far as I know.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

Perhaps the solicitor was their family/business solicitor or a personal friend...I would find it perfectly normal to engage a solicitor...The solicitor would have engaged the barrister not GBC...Normal procedure...

 

[CJ60]

No, you're right, I haven't posted anything about the accident (back then I was just trying to help separate fact from fiction).

All I know about the accident, is it's highly unusual I did notice the other day that crashing into that post wouldn't be difficult though (someone mentioned he'd have to navigate a complicated one way bus thoroughfare) ... but it's right next to the roadside footpath. Would be easy to hit if you lost control at speed. Would be harder to build up enough speed to lose control without major mechanical failure though, and Hondas are notoriously reliable ;-) Also you'd be in the right lane if you were heading to do a turn toward Indooroopilly police - that would take a lot to get across both lanes and slam into the post unless you decided to head left quite a way before the bus station.

Agree - very unusual. IMO you would have to be aiming for the column - there are two wide bus lanes either side. I am sure car wouldn't have been travelling at so great a speed driver couldn't have swerved into either bus lane.

 

[Thinking]

Hi there, Just to clarify this was discussed extensively in a previous thread (possibly 3/4?) .. but essentially the facts are he hired a top criminal defence lawyer the same day he reported his wife missing. Hope this helps!

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/newshome/13650017/baden-clay-killer-may-have-had-accomplice/

There is unsubstantiated (local) information that the lawyer was actually at the home when the police came to record missing person details. There is also speculation that the lawyer is a personal friend that GBC went to school with some years ago.

Thanks Maevelorg Yes I was in on all the previous discussion, but I'm yet to see a police/media report that GBC engaged Darren M on the actual day he reported Allison missing.

I think the use of the words "shortly after" are just an attempt to create innuendo - this could mean a few days later? Again, happy to be pointed to a report that actually states the engagement of Darren M on the day of reporting ABC missing.

I think perhaps this was one of those suggestions that, after much discussion, ended up being taken as fact when it really isn't.

 

[coolcat]

I thought she looked like she had been drinking wine at lunch

Never understood why this pic was used....

Re the affair allegations? Maybe? And then <modsnip> got jealous...

I think they used this photo because it looks more relatable... She looks like an ordinary Mother/Wife ........ Have you notice how many professional photos all of the Baden Clay's have??

There family photo albums must look more like a portfolio then a family photo album.

 

[GlobeArtichoke]

iPhone tracking application

Something for QPS investigators: did Allison's iPhone have the "Find my iphone" APP installed? iTunes would have a record of the subscription.

It has been previously mentioned in the media that GBC endeared himself with Allison in their early days by helping her with her computer issues. I also recall reading on this forum that GBC has a preference for (Apple) Mac devices.

If so its a fair bet that he knew of, and possibly installed, the "Find my iPhone" App on Allison's iPhone for the pure reason of security in the event of its accidental loss or theft.

The App works from one login account (e.g. this App is on my iPhone but installed by my partner using his login details - I can use it if I know his login details...which I do ), and in this scenario for Allison, I suggest it would be GBC's login. The App is installed on all Apple devices under the one account so that the whereabouts of any device (connected to wifi or telephone network) can be checked with any of the others. Checking a device brings up a google street map showing location of the device, including if it's in transit.

If the App was on Allison's iPhone and not mentioned during the search process, eyebrows would be raised.

On a more sinister note: such a location-tracking tool could be exploited by a possessive, mistrustful partner. If this were the case, the discovery of this by Allison would be a major catalyst for confrontation. Allison could have thrown or hidden the phone herself - switched on/off, she wouldn't have cared.

All of the above is purely speculative.

 

[laserdisc10]

Just dropping in to say that every time I've come to this website during the past several days, attempts have been made to override my computer

A fake AVG 'update' malware

My REAL AVG anti-virus is updated automatically and has never tried to take over my computer

I've been dealing with the fake, malware version as it occurs. As it did a few minutes ago - within minutes of my clicking on this site

Don't know if it's happened to anyone else. Would be irresponsible and uncaring of me to not mention it, which is why I logged in to make this post

In the heat of the moment, reading or posting away, people could inadvertently click the thing, which then tries to take over the computer's administrative system

If you click, it will bring up a black screen. Then it wants you to enter your admin password

Anyway, stay safe

 

[CaseClosed]

GBC's demeanour during his only interview with the media reminded me of my ex-husband. It sent shivers down my spine and made me feel sick. And that, Ï'm sorry" oh how it sounded like my ex husband after he would either verbally or physically abuse me.
IMO I believe that the police are giving out tiny bits of info to freak the perp out. Maybe they are hoping that the perp will break. How much easier would it be to convict if the perp admitted to the crime. Or if not the perp maybe someone that was involved.
Does anyone remember the media release where it mentioned that up to 5 ppl could be arrested ? A bit of aiding and abetting here me thinks.

Does anyone know where the sister's husband lives (suburb, city) or what his name is ???

FYI the forum does not allow sleuthing of persons other than the victim, the POI or any official suspects.

 

[Solaris]

Re the two 4WDs

I mentioned on thread 8 that my view is that the perp (white car) and an accomplice (blue car) were driving the cars. I also think that ABC's body was in the white car rather than the blue car. Given that the white car would have been used by the family (including ABC) it is much easier to account for trace evidence of ABC in the white car than the blue car (which AB may never have been in before).

If the media had reported that a white and silver 4WD were spotted by an eyewitness then I think it would be a bit more reasonable to assume the scenario that it was ABC and GBC driving the cars.

Towing of the white car by the blue car

My view is that the white car was trailing the blue car on the way to the disposal site. This view relies on the assumption that the cars were seen on the side of the road heading toward the disposal site.

The hypothesis that the blue car was towing the white car, I think is more plausible if the cars were seen heading back toward the GBC/ABC residence as it makes no sense to tow a car to a disposal site.

What we don't know is which way the cars were travelling (which QPS would surely know) and that is an important piece of information.

 

[coolcat]

Perhaps the solicitor was their family/business solicitor or a personal friend...I would find it perfectly normal to engage a solicitor...The solicitor would have engaged the barrister not GBC...Normal procedure...

It really isn't normal procedure to apoint a Barrister if you have no intention to be in Court Proceedings.

Barristers are expensive - A Lawyer is all that is needed to handle Media and Police Questions at this point especially if he considers himself innocent of any wrong doing.

I wonder if they are trying to build a case even though he claims his innocent because they are presuming that he will have to take the fall for this as all evidence at this point leads to him........They are possibly just trying to get ahead start????

 

[bearbear]

hi fuskier, no not clinical depression, i mean sad from a broken heart, from years of possible dv and verbal abuse, from being made to feel small and insignificant, from fear and from having to constantly portray a happy outgoing, positive can do everything persona to her parents and friends, at the same time trying to give her little girls a happy normal family life, all the time feeling incredible sadness for what her marriage has become and possibly wanting to escape and start again, but not having the finances or maybe the strength to do so.

 

[Kimster]

Just dropping in to say that every time I've come to this website during the past several days, attempts have been made to override my computer

A fake AVG 'update' malware

My REAL AVG anti-virus is updated automatically and has never tried to take over my computer

I've been dealing with the fake, malware version as it occurs. As it did a few minutes ago - within minutes of my clicking on this site

Don't know if it's happened to anyone else. Would be irresponsible and uncaring of me to not mention it, which is why I logged in to make this post

In the heat of the moment, reading or posting away, people could inadvertently click the thing, which then tries to take over the computer's administrative system

If you click, it will bring up a black screen. Then it wants you to enter your admin password

Anyway, stay safe

We have a whole thread about that here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157364&highlight=virus

 

[AllyG]

BEARBEAR: Are we reading our own thoughts/feelings into Allison's looks? You say 'sad', 'broken heart', 'suffered for years' etc. Are you alluding to 'depression'? Or living with DV in an unhappy situation for the sake of the children? Other people may look at the same photo and see just a busy mother around the age of 40 or so. She is still emitting a warm smile for the camera. Just a note that medical evidence re validity/invalidity of depression/DV will be judged in a Court of Law.

It's an observation someone has made based on a photograph.<modsnip>

MOO

 

[Rational]

I have just updated my initial list of definite knowns with info provided by others. Thanks to all :rocker:
I have chosen to edit the original so I know where to go back to if I need it.
Thanks again
Thread 9 page 4 post 86

 

[coolcat]

Just dropping in to say that every time I've come to this website during the past several days, attempts have been made to override my computer

A fake AVG 'update' malware

My REAL AVG anti-virus is updated automatically and has never tried to take over my computer

I've been dealing with the fake, malware version as it occurs. As it did a few minutes ago - within minutes of my clicking on this site

Don't know if it's happened to anyone else. Would be irresponsible and uncaring of me to not mention it, which is why I logged in to make this post

In the heat of the moment, reading or posting away, people could inadvertently click the thing, which then tries to take over the computer's administrative system

If you click, it will bring up a black screen. Then it wants you to enter your admin password

Anyway, stay safe

Oh Thanks so much for telling us that, as last night whilst using my notebook I kept getting the AVG Pop up which had never happened before....Why dod you think that is happening....Is it related only to this site??

I simply clicked the close icon..is this what I should of done>

I am not very Computer savvy so sorry if I sound dumb on this?

 

[Kimster]

Oh Thanks so much for telling us that, as last night whilst using my notebook I kept getting the AVG Pop up which had never happened before....Why dod you think that is happening....Is it related only to this site??

I simply clicked the close icon..is this what I should of done>

I am not very Computer savvy so sorry if I sound dumb on this?

Please read this thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157364&highlight=virus

If all your questions aren't answered, ask there and one of the virus tech members will help you. :blowkiss: