Still Missing Australia - Amber Haigh, 19, still missing, NSW, 5 June 2002 *Arrests*

[SLouTh]

3rd June – RG & AG stayed at Tahmoor Motor Inn, 20 or 30 km south of Campbelltown (3 hours from their house, no known reason for them staying there)

Like you said South Aussie - points to maybe missing a lot earlier - more likely to have died closer to this date - early June than when they reported her missing 19th June.

I searched all day yesterday for an "independent" witness report of the last sighting of Amber .....

However, I can only find what the G's allegedly told the Police ..... and I also came to the conclusion that Amber may have actually gone missing earlier as well ....

Amber Michelle HAIGH

 

[nightrider17]

Well " Slouth "- if you ever you want incriminating conversations to be recorded this is the time - just unbelievable that this conversation was captured.

But they were truly some other kind of evil.

 

[SLouTh]

Well " Slouth "- if you ever you want incriminating conversations to be recorded this is the time - just unbelievable that this conversation was captured.

But they were truly some other kind of evil.

Totally agree!

However, what I don't understand is why they would still be discussing this "2 weeks later" after they allegedly reported Amber missing .....(wouldn't they have done the disposal, before reporting her missing??? )

One would assume that the covert surveillance would have been placed insitu by Police, after they reported Amber missing???

Unless they were already under surveillance for another matter at the time???

The date of these conversations will be interesting when presented at the trial .....IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I have been looking for the Coroners Report, to get more details.
Unfortunately, it looks as though they have not put any coronial findings from 2011 up on the public portal.

One would think - as Amber seems to have been living apart from them at the time of her disappearance - that others may have provided a date/time when they last saw Amber.



"A 2011 inquest found Ms Haigh, who intended to visit her sick father in Mount Druitt, likely died by murder or misadventure soon after she was last seen."

Couple charged with murder 20 years after young mum Amber Haigh vanished

Police have charged a married couple with the murder of 19-year-old Amber Haigh, whose son was just six months old when she disappeared in June 2002.

www.abc.net.au

Coronial findings and recommendations

Coronial findings are listed in descending date order and can be adjusted by use of the filter on this page. Findings are also searchable by keyword. Please note this section does not contain ALL inquest findings made in any given year.

www.coroners.nsw.gov.au

 

[deugirtni]

This article details a little more about the covert recordings.......

"There has been nothing served on the accused, only a 16 or 17 page statement by a police officer naming a number of police witnesses, I think there are 20 in total," Ms Langfield said.

"Conversations where he is asking the co-accused not to roll on him and saying he doesn't want to go to jail.," Ms Kiely said.
In one recorded conversation Ms Kiely said the co-accused has said: "where are we going to take the rest of her now?".
Ms Kiely said Geeves had replied: "somewhere close to here".

There are other recorded conversations in which Ms Kiely said the co-accused had asked Geeves: "have you taken her yet, have you taken her yet?" to which he is alleged to have replied "no I haven't".

She said there was also a conversation which alleged the co-accused said: "just want to give her to the pigs out the back", to which Mr Geeves is alleged to have replied "yes".

"In terms of it being a circumstantial case, it's a very strong circumstantial case," Ms Kiely said.

Bail refused in "strong circumstantial case" in alleged murder of Amber Haigh

Robert Geeves and his former wife Anne Margaret Geeves, both of Harden near Young, appeared via audio visual...

www.youngwitness.com.au

It's hard to imagine police were unable to come up with enough evidence 20 years ago, considering that is when they had these recordings!

 

[deugirtni]

Footage of the arrest here - has NSW Police Emblem
Couple arrested over Amber Haigh disappearance - YouTube

Interestingly, Police put him in a paddy wagon, and her in a car .......
imo

While it is normal (here at least, and I'm sure there in Aus as well) to keep suspects and witnesses separate upon arrest or questioning, so they don't have the opportunity to corroborate any stories.. what happens in a murder trial where there are two accuseds? Are they tried together, or would each one have the same trial, separately, with presumably same witnesses, same experts(?), same everything (if police think they are equally to blame), which would be extremely costly? Here we had a murder case with two suspects, the trial was lengthy with many witnesses to be called, and they were tried together. Does anyone know if there are cases of a duo being tried together?

 

[SLouTh]

While it is normal (here at least, and I'm sure there in Aus as well) to keep suspects and witnesses separate upon arrest or questioning, so they don't have the opportunity to corroborate any stories.. what happens in a murder trial where there are two accuseds? Are they tried together, or would each one have the same trial, separately, with presumably same witnesses, same experts(?), same everything (if police think they are equally to blame), which would be extremely costly? Here we had a murder case with two suspects, the trial was lengthy with many witnesses to be called, and they were tried together. Does anyone know if there are cases of a duo being tried together?

I think they will be heard separately ..... she already has a date for for another possible bail application where as he does not .... JMO

Her matter was adjourned to May 17 at which time her solicitor Clive Hill suggested an application for release may occur.

Bail refused in "strong circumstantial case" in alleged murder of Amber Haigh

Robert Geeves and his former wife Anne Margaret Geeves, both of Harden near Young, appeared via audio visual...

www.youngwitness.com.au

 

[SLouTh]

Well " Slouth "- if you ever you want incriminating conversations to be recorded this is the time - just unbelievable that this conversation was captured.

But they were truly some other kind of evil.

Totally agree!

However, what I don't understand is why they would still be discussing this "2 weeks later" after they allegedly reported Amber missing .....(wouldn't they have done the disposal, before reporting her missing??? )

One would assume that the covert surveillance would have been placed insitu by Police, after they reported Amber missing???

Unless they were already under surveillance for another matter at the time???

The date of these conversations will be interesting when presented at the trial .....IMO

It would appear that possibly the murder was closer to the time of the report of Amber missing, than the date the G's suggested she went missing .....

"There are telephone intercept materials very soon after her disappearance suggestive of potential discussions of disposal of remains or disposal of property.

Also in the Police Presser ... Police now believe that Amber was murdered in the Young / Harding area, and that she was possibly never in Sydney ....around 6:50 mins

And here

Detective Superintendent Danny Doherty said police will allege Haigh was killed in the Harden-Young area.
"We will allege Amber met her demise in the Harden-Young area and never made it to Sydney

Chilling details emerge in court as couple refused bail over alleged murder of NSW teen

www.9news.com.au

 

[SLouTh]

I also wonder if these things are related ??????

"There is a certain information provided by a recent witness that was only known to police at the time.

Bail refused in "strong circumstantial case" in alleged murder of Amber Haigh

Robert Geeves and his former wife Anne Margaret Geeves, both of Harden near Young, appeared via audio visual...

www.youngwitness.com.au

And

Prosecutor Chris Brien said the investigation was ongoing and had been restarted after a witness came forward late last year.

Wire tap caught cold case murder accused discussing young mum's remains, court told

Robert Geeves, who is accused of the 2002 murder of Amber Haigh, allegedly bought a chainsaw after the 19-year-old's disappearance and discussed disposing of her body over the phone with his co-accused, a court has heard.

www.abc.net.au

And now this

The police prosecutor told Cowra Local Court the homicide squad made the arrests after a new witness came forward via Crime Stoppers, just a week after a $1 million reward for information on the case was announced.

Chilling details emerge in court as couple refused bail over alleged murder of NSW teen

www.9news.com.au

I am guessing they are .... IMO

 

[SLouTh]

Putting together a list of the "circumstantial evidence" we know so far.... and
Collating some of the surveillance details.....

Phone intercepts of conversations allegedly discussing the purchase of a chainsaw, disposal of a body or parts of a body, and the evidence of around 20 witnesses

Surveillance details include:

"where are we going to take the rest of her now?".
Geeves had replied: "somewhere close to here".

"have you taken her yet, have you taken her yet?" to which he is alleged to have replied "no I haven't".

"just want to give her to the pigs out the back", to which Mr Geeves is alleged to have replied "yes".

“have you taken the rest of her up there?”,
“did you get rid of the rest of her body” and
“so where will we take the rest of her now?”

"have you got rid of her?"

Mr Geeves is also accused of asking his wife "not to roll" on him because he "didn't want to go to jail"

In 2002, police found blood on a doona and patches on a carpet that were identified as blood by tracing chemicals - the blood was tested and the DNA showed it could have come from 'a descendent of RW (Amber's mother)'.

9th June – they bought nails and a hammer from hardware shop in Moss Vale (2½ hrs from their home, same direction as Campbelltown)


In putting this list together, I noticed the word "we" was used ...... which implies Mrs G was more than just an accomplice after the murder ..... and why she has also been charged with Murder ....

I guess I had been thinking Mr G was the main offender but maybe not????

Has anyone noticed anything else to add to the list so far????

All referenced from previously linked articles......

 

[deugirtni]

@SLouTh Sorry, I don't know how to quote just a portion of a post any more? This part.. where did it come from?

"“did you get rid of the rest of her body” and"

 

[SLouTh]

@SLouTh Sorry, I don't know how to quote just a portion of a post any more? This part.. where did it come from?

"“did you get rid of the rest of her body” and"

This article

Amber Haigh murder co-accused refused bail | About Regional

Phone intercepts of conversations allegedly discussing the purchase of a chainsaw, disposal of a body or parts of a body,...

aboutregional.com.au

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Harden couple charged with Amber Haigh's murder plead not guilty | About Regional

A Harden couple accused of the murder of a young mother who co-habitated with them have been committed to stand…

aboutregional.com.au

A Harden couple accused of the murder of a young mother who co-habitated with them have been committed to stand trial.

Robert Samuel Geeves and Anne Margaret Geeves, both 62, are now set to face the NSW Supreme Court in Sydney for an arraignment hearing, which sets trial dates, on 7 July.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Couple accused of killing teen said ‘she won’t be coming back’, court told

Prosecutors allege Robert and Anne Geeves were captured on listening devices discussing the disposal of a body after 19-year-old Amber Haigh vanished in 2002.

www.smh.com.au

 

[drsleuth]

Trial was supposed to start today.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/11th-hour-twist-in-longawaited-amber-haigh-murder-trial/news-story/c077295cd2d640adff88c8d11bd3decb

The long-awaited trial of a couple accused of murdering teenager Amber Haigh has been delayed after one of the defendants was hospitalised with pneumonia, a court has been told.
Robert Samuel Geeves, 64, and Anne Margaret Geeves, 63, were due to face a judge-alone trial in the NSW Supreme Court having been charged with Ms Haigh’s murder.

Both have pleaded not guilty and the trial was set to begin on Monday – more than 22 years since Ms Haigh went missing.

 

[Snoopster]

The prosecution has alleged in court that Haigh was used by the Geeves as a “surrogate mother” because they wanted another baby, and, once Haigh’s baby was born – fathered by Robert Geeves – they sought to have her “removed from the equation” by killing her.

The court heard on Tuesday how Robert Geeves and Haigh would have sex “all the time” – sometimes watched by Anne Geeves – and that the missing teen had looked increasingly dirty and dishevelled in the lead-up to her disappearance.

Woman accused of murdering teenager Amber Haigh watched her have sex with husband, court hears

Robbie Geeves said his mother drove him to Young hospital promising “a surprise”, and then urged him to acknowledge the newborn as his “baby brother”.

“She wanted me to go into the hospital; I didn’t want to … because it wasn’t right.

“I don’t know how to say it in a nice way: she was my ex-girlfriend, you can’t have a baby brother to your ex-girlfriend.”

Son of accused murderers tells court his father having child with his ex-girlfriend Amber Haigh ‘was not right’

That is so disgusting. An older couple taking advantage of an intellectually disabled young woman.
And it sounds like Amber was mistreated. Her uncle testified that when he saw her at the Geeves' house she was sleeping on a dirty mattress on the floor with no bedding.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Amber Haigh was a 19-year-old mother when she vanished from the NSW Riverina in 2002, leaving behind her five-month-old son

Now the father of her child, 64-year-old Robert Geeves, and his wife, Anne Geeves, are facing trial, each charged with her murder. They have both pleaded not guilty.

Petrina Ingram met Haigh in March 2002, after both of their trains were delayed, leaving them stranded at Cootamundra railway station for several hours together, the court heard. The pair had lunch and ice-cream together.

Haigh was travelling to Sydney with her young son, still in a pram, and whom Ingram told the supreme court on Monday Haigh “was clearly besotted with”.

When Ingram complimented Haigh on her pram or blanket – “I can’t remember which” – Haigh replied that it was a gift from the wife of the father of her child.

“I found it shocking, I was shocked by that comment … I said: ‘What? Does she know about the baby?’”

Ingram told the court Haigh talked to her about her relationship with Robert and Anne Geeves.

“She told me that both the husband and wife would come to her place in Young, that they would bring alcohol with them. They would all drink the alcohol until she [Haigh] was drunk and then the wife would go home and that the husband would tie her to the bed and have sex with her.”

Amber Haigh claimed man accused of her murder would tie her to bed and have sex with her, court hears

Woman tells court about ‘shocking’ conversation she had with missing teenager, after pair got stranded at a train station in New South Wales

www.theguardian.com

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Child and family nurse Sue Powell told the court on Thursday that she became aware Mr Geeves had a history which "wasn't terribly favourable" following discussions with colleagues and police in early 2002.

Ms Powell said she was "alarmed" when she heard of an incident where a then-partner of Mr Geeves was shot in 1993, and also when a police officer told her the man had a "very large file".

Nurse who cared for missing teen Amber Haigh was 'alarmed' by accused killer's past

Sue Powell, a nurse who cared for the teenager and her newborn baby, told the court she was concerned something might happen "at the hands of Robert Geeves" after learning details about his history with police.

www.abc.net.au

 

[CredibleSauce]

Child and family nurse Sue Powell told the court on Thursday that she became aware Mr Geeves had a history which "wasn't terribly favourable" following discussions with colleagues and police in early 2002.

Ms Powell said she was "alarmed" when she heard of an incident where a then-partner of Mr Geeves was shot in 1993, and also when a police officer told her the man had a "very large file".

Nurse who cared for missing teen Amber Haigh was 'alarmed' by accused killer's past

Sue Powell, a nurse who cared for the teenager and her newborn baby, told the court she was concerned something might happen "at the hands of Robert Geeves" after learning details about his history with police.

www.abc.net.au

From the article
“Defence lawyers described the case as deeply flawed and argued the allegations were driven by gossip and community distaste towards the couple.”

Gee I wonder why the community harboured distaste for the couple, what a mystery

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Witness Petrina Ingram today told the Supreme Court in Wagga Wagga about a chance encounter with Ms Haigh at Cootamundra train station in early 2002.

She said the pair struck up a conversation and spent a few hours together while their coach and train connections were delayed.

Ms Ingram told the court she complimented "a pram or blanket" Ms Haigh had with her, and was "shocked" when told it was a gift from the father's wife.

"I wouldn't think that was typical behaviour," Ms Ingram said.

Ms Ingram said she asked the teenager about her relationship with the Geeveses, and was told the couple would visit her place in Young and they "would all drink until she was drunk".

She said Ms Haigh then described what would happen after she was drunk.

"The wife would then go home. The husband would tie her to the bed and have sex with her," Ms Ingram told the court.

Amber Haigh's alleged killer used to get her drunk and tie her up before abusing her, witness tells court

Formerly married couple Robert Samuel Geeves and Anne Margaret Geeves were the last people to see Amber Haigh alive. Twenty-two years after her disappearance, they are facing trial for her alleged murder.

www.abc.net.au