GUILTY Australia - Andrew, 45, Rose, 44, & Chantelle Rowe, 16, slain, Kapunda, 8 Nov 2010 #4

[midsommer]

Love your quote at the bottom lol

Cheers for that

 

[midsommer]

Like other countries, Australia has its reputable newspapers and its sensational ones.

I think other Aussies here would agree the The Australian is one of the well respected ones.

Therefore, I think for know facts on this case, we should look at this article: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...amily-hurl-abuse/story-e6frg6nf-1225955204921

If The Australian is correct, then:

• He did not apply for bail

• 
  His name and image have been suppressed in South Australia because police have argued that identifying him would prevent them from properly investigating an alibi.

• the man attended a party at the Rowe family's house the night before they were killed.

• Police arrested him after visiting him at his home on Tuesday evening.

• Detective Superintendent Grant Moyle (said) "I'd like to stress that it's still not too late to come forward with any information that anyone has,"

• The matter will return to court next Wednesday. (yesterday)

 

[Cyclone82]

3. I do not see a motive.

Jealousy, couldn't have what he always wanted, just could not handle seeing her with someone else for any longer.

 

[midsommer]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...nd-dead-in-house/story-e6frg6nf-1225949645973

Also from The Australian on Nov 9 (the Tuesday after the murders:

• Major Crime Investigation Section Detective Superintendent Grant Moyle said it was too early to determine whether the deaths were the result of a murder-suicide or foul play.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-kapunda-murders/story-fn3dxity-1225953944887
This from The Australian on Nov 15 (Monday, one week after the murders and yet 2 days before the arrest)

• Police have obtained a DNA profile from the crime scene

• ...we have obtained the DNA profile of an unknown male person from the crime scene," Supt Moyle said.

• Youths known to the slain family had voluntarily given DNA swabs to help eliminate suspects

 

[nobody11]

Like other countries, Australia has its reputable newspapers and its sensational ones.

I think other Aussies here would agree the The Australian is one of the well respected ones.

Therefore, I think for know facts on this case, we should look at this article: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...amily-hurl-abuse/story-e6frg6nf-1225955204921

If The Australian is correct, then:

• He did not apply for bail

• 
  His name and image have been suppressed in South Australia because police have argued that identifying him would prevent them from properly investigating an alibi.

• the man attended a party at the Rowe family's house the night before they were killed.

• Police arrested him after visiting him at his home on Tuesday evening.

• Detective Superintendent Grant Moyle (said) "I'd like to stress that it's still not too late to come forward with any information that anyone has,"

• The matter will return to court next Wednesday. (yesterday)

The media DEFINITELY like to sensationalize things!

Something devastating happened in my family a few years back, we got together and made a pac to not speak to the media due to the grand kids. They didn't need to see this splashed everywhere they were already in great amounts of shock. Because the media didn't have any valid facts, no word of a lie they made their own version and it wasn't even in the same ball park as the truth was!

 

[midsommer]

Phew!

Ok, that's a lot of posts and I apologise.

Please don't say I am spamming because I am trying hard to present the known facts of this case to ensure that the rumours can be treated as rumours.

Based on the known facts, I have a number of questions and ideas, such as:

1. What was it about the murder scene that initially led the police to think it could be a murder-suicide?
It took 48 hours for them to announce it was a murder.
I can only imagine the scene but it sounds like it was so grizzly that to consider it possibly a murder-suicide seems absurd, unless there was some history of domestic problems known to the police.

2.The accussed was known to have been at the Saturday night party and youths known to the family (which surely included those at the party) gave their DNA. Yet 2 days before the arrest the police said they did not have a match for the DNA found at the scene. Still, having been at the party, the acussed must have left DNA somewhere in the house, you would think.
This makes me think the DNA evidence is weak.

3. He says he has an alibi. I have no idea what that could be, but 8 days from arresting him the suppression order is still in place and police are still investigating the alibi. A weak alibi would have been easy to dismiss quickly.

My conclussion, as I have been saying in my posts for a long while now, is that there is a lot more to this case than meets the eye and a lot more investigation going on by the police.

 

[kimmy1966]

The silence makes me feel that both sides have agreed to the suppression order and there was no need for further discussion regarding the release of information.

Therefore, you can only assume there is a legitimate reason for the order to be in place, and quite frankly given the lack of supported information out there, it really appears that those who are "in the know" are complying with it.

Remembering that there has been a great deal of misinformation posted in these threads (thankfully much has now been removed), we really have to keep in mind what the known and substantiated facts are...unfortunately there aren't many, but they are all readily available on the various AU news sites.

I honestly don't feel that the sleuthing has so far uncovered anything apart from some friendships and the disbelief that this seemingly ordinary teenager could have committed these crimes. There has been so much false "inside information" provided I am extremely hesitant to take ANY at face value <modsnip>.

I came to this site as I was under the impression that it would be a good forum to have conversation with like minded people regarding the complexities and curiosities of this case. <modsnip>

...but back to these conversations. Like many people, I think my curiosity is peaked primarily by the suppression order and reference to an alibi. I am of the understanding that he has a strong legal team, so I would think this is not just some frivolous claim. I have seen a a few suggestions as to why it might be in place and wanted to add some of my thoughts:

The alibi??? Is it possible that the accused has an alibi for the time that the screams were heard? I'm not suggesting that this would make him innocent, but maybe there was confusion to what/when screams were heard, therefore creating a shred of doubt. If this is a matter still be sorted, there could be reason for argument from both sides to suppress information.

Insanity??? There was a case here a year or so ago when a man physically and sexually attacked his toddler son until the point he was on life support.

Father fronts court over toddler's alleged attempted murder http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/27/2553028.htm?site=news

The case appeared to be big news and then vanished from the media. No suppression order was made public. From what I gather the man was found unfit to stand trial, so nothing more was reported. Could be the same here, but doesn't explain the alibi.

"Was there when the attack took place, but left with the knife??" I won't go into specifics as to why I put this one here. I do have a scenario in mind, but it is purely conjecture on my part.

Please understand I am not trying to claim the guilt nor innocence of the accused. I am just hoping to generate discussion based on the oddities of this case.

Very good points!!

 

[midsommer]

The media DEFINITELY like to sensationalize things!

Something devastating happened in my family a few years back, we got together and made a pac to not speak to the media due to the grand kids. They didn't need to see this splashed everywhere they were already in great amounts of shock. Because the media didn't have any valid facts, no word of a lie they made their own version and it wasn't even in the same ball park as the truth was!

I know what you mean.
When I was a teenager a horse got stuck in an old well near us.
The girl who owned the horse was my friend and I was there with her.
The Star Force got the horse out safely but it took a few hours and was all visible from the road.
My friend (owner of the horse), who was really distressed, refused to speak to the media.

That night on the TV news 2 channels ran a story.
Both said "the young owner was clearly distressed" and showed footage of a young girl, unknown to any of us, who had stopped with her parents on the road to watch the incident. This girl was sobbing and cried "oh, help him, help him!"

This incident, while trivial and with a positive outcome, affected me deeply.
It made me realise that the media will do anything, imply anything, to make their story more dramatic.

They didn't lie. The owner really was distressed.
But they implied that the owner was this other young girl who was giving such a convenient dramatic performance in front of the cameras.

So, to this day, I am very, very sceptical about anything I see on TV news or read in a newspaper.

 

[midsommer]

Jealousy, couldn't have what he always wanted, just could not handle seeing her with someone else for any longer.

I find that a strange motive because what 18yo has not had an unrequited crush on someone?
Are there other cases where they have murdered the one they love, and the parents, then acted as if nothing had happened and supporting the b/f?

I am not criticising your idea. I'd really like to know if there are other cases of this happening.

I expect we could find many cases where the person committed suicide though.

If it was jealousy, wouldn't it be more logical to kill the b/f then comfort CR?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

We know the police put together a DNA profile of the perp. The accused was arrested the day this was announced in the media. The accused appeared before a judge the next day and remanded in custody until Feb. Over a week later, and long enough for his DNA to be taken and compared with the DNA of the prep the police put together the accused remains in custody. Simple logic that the accused's DNA matches the DNA of the perp. Hence he remains in custody.

 

[midsommer]

We know the police put together a DNA profile of the perp. The accused was arrested the day this was announced in the media. The accused appeared before a judge the next day and remanded in custody until Feb. Over a week later, and long enough for his DNA to be taken and compared with the DNA of the prep the police put together the accused remains in custody. Simple logic that the accused's DNA matches the DNA of the perp. Hence he remains in custody.

If you look at the time line of the police reports, they said they did not have a DNA match 2 days before the arrest.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-kapunda-murders/story-fn3dxity-1225953944887
This from The Australian on Nov 15 (Monday, one week after the murders and yet 2 days before the arrest)

• Police have obtained a DNA profile from the crime scene
• ...we have obtained the DNA profile of an unknown male person from the crime scene," Supt Moyle said.
• Youths known to the slain family had voluntarily given DNA swabs to help eliminate suspects

 

[patroler]

If you look at the time line of the police reports, they said they did not have a DNA match 2 days before the arrest.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225953944887
This from The Australian on Nov 15 (Monday, one week after the murders and yet 2 days before the arrest)

• Police have obtained a DNA profile from the crime scene
• ...we have obtained the DNA profile of an unknown male person from the crime scene," Supt Moyle said.
• Youths known to the slain family had voluntarily given DNA swabs to help eliminate suspects

i get page not found - following that link

 

[Cyclone82]

I find that a strange motive because what 18yo has not had an unrequited crush on someone?
Are there other cases where they have murdered the one they love, and the parents, then acted as if nothing had happened and supporting the b/f?

I am not criticising your idea. I'd really like to know if there are other cases of this happening.

I expect we could find many cases where the person committed suicide though.

If it was jealousy, wouldn't it be more logical to kill the b/f then comfort CR?

That is ok. It has been mentioned that CR only viewed the accused as a 'friend' and nothing more. He wanted more and she just wanted to keep the relationship as friends. To me it makes sense if he killed her because he may have thought, if i cant have her, then i dont want anyone else to. Maybe it was too painful for him to see her in a relationship with someone else? So thats why i dont think it would make more sense for him to have killed the boyfriend because that would not necessarily make her want to be with him afterwards even if he got away with it. He would be in the same situation as he was before hand, with the girl he likes still only wanting to be 'just friends' but with the addition of the fact that he had killed her B/F

Just want to confirm this is my thoughts and speculations only

 

[Cyclone82]

Same here Patroler, but i got to it an hour or so ago. Sounds like more media articles being pulled.

 

[midsommer]

Incidentally, it was the prosecution (acting for The Crown) who applied for the suppression order.

"He did not apply for bail and his name and image were suppressed after an application from prosecutor Rebecca Lawley."

REF: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...punda-murders-20101116-17vu2.html?from=smh_ft

Why would the prosecutor want to suppress his identity?

The prosecutor wants to do all they can to ensure that the case cannot be dismissed before it goes to trial.

What reason could they have? How would releasing his name affect their case if they have compelling forensic evidence?

I cannot come up with an answer that makes any sense.

 

[midsommer]

i get page not found - following that link

Sorry!

The cut and paste from my previous post shortened it.

Here it is:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-kapunda-murders/story-fn3dxity-1225953944887

 

[midsommer]

Same here Patroler, but i got to it an hour or so ago. Sounds like more media articles being pulled.

It is still there and I edited my post to correct it.

 

[nobody11]

That is ok. It has been mentioned that CR only viewed the accused as a 'friend' and nothing more. He wanted more and she just wanted to keep the relationship as friends. To me it makes sense if he killed her because he may have thought, if i cant have her, then i dont want anyone else to. Maybe it was too painful for him to see her in a relationship with someone else? So thats why i dont think it would make more sense for him to have killed the boyfriend because that would not necessarily make her want to be with him afterwards even if he got away with it. He would be in the same situation as he was before hand, with the girl he likes still only wanting to be 'just friends' but with the addition of the fact that he had killed her B/F

Just want to confirm this is my thoughts and speculations only

My thoughts and speculations only

If that theory is right wouldn't there have to be some kind of major unstable actions prior?

Midsommer is right, you can not get through your adolescent period without having an undying attraction to at least one person.

To go to such extreme to not only kill the one you love but the parents too? Those actions are extremely unstable and would find it hard to conceive someone would just wake up one day and do that! In my opinion there would have to be some prior instability signs.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Edit is not offered am clicking left and right all over the place!

I think sometimes you only get an hour or so to do it, if you click the red triangle to the top of the post you wish to delete you get an option explaining why you think this post should be deleted in the message to the mods and they will do it for you.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

If you look at the time line of the police reports, they said they did not have a DNA match 2 days before the arrest.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-kapunda-murders/story-fn3dxity-1225953944887
This from The Australian on Nov 15 (Monday, one week after the murders and yet 2 days before the arrest)

• Police have obtained a DNA profile from the crime scene
• ...we have obtained the DNA profile of an unknown male person from the crime scene," Supt Moyle said.
• Youths known to the slain family had voluntarily given DNA swabs to help eliminate suspects

But my post said they mentioned that the police said they had a match on the day the perp was arrested. I do not understand how if they didn't have a match two days before this changes anything? He remains in custody. The suppression order will not last forever either, and the truth will come out.