GUILTY Australia - Andrew, 45, Rose, 44, & Chantelle Rowe, 16, slain, Kapunda, 8 Nov 2010 #5

[templers]

I don't think there is any proof that we know of that the accused was actually in the home for an hour or so after the attacks. Nor is there any proof he cleaned himself up afterwards (correct me with a new story if I'm wrong). I think the idea that he was there for so long after the murders has come from the police giving a time frame for the events. Having seen how close these houses are together, I cannot imagine anyone sticking around after the yelling that was heard by the neighbour. Also surely no one is careless enough to spend time cleaning themselves up then leave a blood trail in the street.

Also I wouldn't think that he would be sleeping over, or even telling anyone he was sleeping over. CR had a boyfriend, having another male sleep over let alone your boyfriends best friend, seems like a very strange thing to me. Can you imagine the troubles that would cause in the teenage world. Besides we don't actually know for a fact that he was dropped off there, this has been said by people on this and other forums, but never released as a fact by the police.

Also to confuse the situation even more, people have stated he was dropped off, then there is the sighting of the ute in the street which one person got out of. A poster has since said that this ute has "disappeared". Surely we are not going to imagine that the accused was dropped off by someone, then an hour before the murders another vehicle totally unrelated to the crime stops and someone gets out, but after the fact never comes forward to clear their name. It seems to me that the white ute is key, either the person who dropped him off drove the white ute, or there is a possiblity of someone else's involvement in the crime.

Hi there, I'm new to the site
Just wanted to share a few of my thoughts.
Regarding the above quote - it is not unusual, in this current generation of teenagers, for boys and girls to spend the night at each others houses regardless of whether one of them is in a relationship with someone else.
My own daughter has done that numerous times and also then spent the night at the girlfriends house.
I've questioned these arrangements and have been told it's quite normal for them all to do that.
This generation of teenagers are very 'close' to each other. They're a LOT more affectionate towards each other than in my day. Hugging both male and female friends goodbye when parting is extremely common for instance. We never hugged a boy goodbye who was'nt our boyfriend but it's the norm now with them.
So if he said he was spending the night this would'nt be seen as unusual.

Regarding how he would've got home unseen. He did'nt need a car. Kapunda is quite small, and has been previously stated, poorly lit at night.
In a town of that size , and on a sunday night, he would've been unlikely to encounter anyone on his way home. He only had to stick to the back streets.

There has been a lot of speculation as to how he would've raped and killed Chantelle without alerting the parents.
I was once married to a violent man. About the same build as the perp and not as tall. If he wanted to do something to me without me making any noise then his first action would be to gag me in whatever way he could.
I would imagine, that if the perp knew the parents were home (would'nt their car have been there?) then his first action, upon deciding to become violent with her, would be to clamp a hand on her mouth, and with the other hand, and his legs, restrain her.
Although he was slight of frame he would still have been much stronger than her. He's a man. Men have testosterone, which gives them muscular strength and stamina that women have much less of. I NEVER had a hope of fighting back against my ex-husband.

Regarding his supposed easy going nature - my friends, my family, and my ex-husbands family, were shocked and disbelieving when they discovered he was violent towards me, and the extent of that violence. Some members of his family refused to believe it until they became victims of his violence themselves...once he no longer had me to abuse. So I would'nt put too much stock in his being nice and quiet and easy going.
My daughter knew him from school. Was shocked to discover he did it. Said he was a little 'odd' but no more than a lot of people are a little 'odd'.
Also I one knew a man whom I considered to be one of the nicest people I'd ever met, till his wife told me he was violent towards her. You can't always tell by the personality they display to everyone else. After all, if you are thinking sick and twisted thoughts you're hardly likely to voice them.

 

[Cyclone82]

The accused rocking up at her house at midnight on a Sunday night for a 'sleep over' is highly unusual IMO.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Thanks for joining up Templers!!! Interesting information there....and ITA about violent men..he is not about to tell anyone his deep darkest thoughts is he .. although I think a couple of his friends may have some idea, may have heard him say a few dark things late at night, after a few too many drinks, who knows?

 

[sniffer]

The accused rocking up at her house at midnight on a Sunday night for a 'sleep over' is highly unusual IMO.

Totally agree. Especially when she was supposed to be going to work but was too sick. None of this "sleep over" scenario sits right with me.

Lets see: It was Sunday night, she was supposed to be working the next day and the accused probably was too. She was sick. He turns up at midnight (if this is in fact the case). No one I know would allow their 16 yr old daughter to have a friend, let alone a male friend, turn up at all hours of the night for a sleep over. Why midnight? Why not a normal time of the evening? Also she apparently said on FB that she was sick and going to bed. If you'd planned for someone to come over why would you be going to bed? I thought if you were staying at someone's house you might actually want to spend time with them.....bit hard at midnight. Nothing seems normal to me about any of it.

 

[sbr]

Or it was planned for him to come over so she posted on facebook for her boyfriends benefit that she was sick and going to bed. However, I don't think that's true but that is a possibility.

Templers does your daughter know how long she was in a committed relationship with her boyfriend? Was it a committed relationship? could they have split up? From what I have seen a few times now, they were only together for a few weeks to a month. Was the accused known to have been in any relationships with anyone? I remember looking at her bebo sometime ago and I got the impression that at one time there was possible something going on between him and her friend?

 

[templers]

I don't think SHE (or the parents) knew of any sleepover, I'm saying that if he was dropped off by a friend and gave the excuse to the friend that he was having a sleepover then that would've been valid to the friend, although I agree that it being so late would've seemed unusual to the friend surely.
I find it difficult to believe that which has been said by other posters, that CR and the accused were known to be in a sexual relationship, ongoing at the time of the crime. Surely DP would not want to go out with her if that were the case. If it were well known then someone would've told him.
They were only together about a month I believe and things were going well.
The accused was seeing a girl about 3 weeks before the murders. Her mother posted on Facebook that info and stated that the girl had to go and give police a statement after the arrests. Don't know how long he was seeing her for.
My daughter has'nt heard from anyone at all that there was an ongoing or even prior relationship between CR and the accused. No talk of that at all amongst C's friends that she actually knows personally.. That's not to say it is'nt correct however.

 

[Cyclone82]

I just found this

http://www.fiveaa.com.au/audio_matthew-pantelis-reports-on-kapunda-murders_100329

 

[sbr]

Thanks for that templars, that's what I thought was the case also but wanted to get another opinion from a local. On the topic of the accused dating anyone I recall someone mentioning earlier on that the accused briefly went out with someone with the same first name as Chantelle.

I can't imagine it being premeditated if he arranged a lift there, that would just be plain stupid and he doesn't appear to be that stupid imo. Someone mentioned him being kicked out of home once, perhaps that's why he carried a bag around that night?

 

[Cyclone82]

Leaving a blood trail from the scene is pretty stupid to me.

 

[sbr]

Yeah but at that time he was probably in some blind rage and just didn't care.

 

[Cyclone82]

I was just saying if he was stupid enough to leave a blood trail then he could have been stupid enough to have premeditated it and got a lift. I can not see how he could have gone there with no intention to harm someone. Then lets say CR upset him some how, you would think he may just punch her in the face and then realise what he had done and stop there and feel very remorsful for hurting the girl he loves, i do not think it was a little fight or disagreement that got out of hand and lead to 3 murders. That is pretty extreme. Most people would stop after a few punches or a bit of brawling and dont continue on to stab 3 people unless they had some pre idea of doing it. Actually killing someone is a pretty big step up from a bit of a argument that got physical. Thats why i think the murder of CR was planned but perhaps not the parents but i think if he was surprised or got caught leaving by the parents then he thought he had to kill them if he had any chance of getting away with it. The whole thing is pretty dumb though.

 

[singers]

It seems many of the victims friends have also commented that "no way" was the victim going out with the accused. Some of the victims friends didnt even know him.

Yet the accused friends claim he was, and that he was there every day. I feel this may be an exaggeration and perhaps something he told ppl but was not necessarily true.

Also Templars is correct, it's less than 2k between the houses, easily walkable.

 

[Cyclone82]

Yeah wouldn't surprise me if he was telling his mates he was with CR or had been going to her place just to sound cool and make him self popular in front of his mates. Some guys do that.

 

[sbr]

Also Templars is correct, it's less than 2k between the houses, easily walkable.

So why get a lift and thus a witness that puts you at the scene of the crime if it was planned? Only possible reason I can think of is if that person was involved also. Otherwise, I don't think it was planned.

 

[Cyclone82]

Hes 18yrs old, his first crime, he was bound to make fundamental stuff ups like that

 

[singers]

So why get a lift and thus a witness that puts you at the scene of the crime if it was planned? Only possible reason I can think of is if that person was involved also. Otherwise, I don't think it was planned.

On one of his SN sites he says he was bashed to near death out front of his house. I was wondering if he carried a good knife since that episode.
I think my best guess was that he was hoping for a *sleep over* but perhaps the night ended with him being jealous and angry about the bf or rejected in some way. So perhaps it was not planned, he was hoping it would go better, but when it didn't he was so angry he just cut loose. Perhaps it was a knife he carried with him.

just a guess.

For the "he preplanned" it scenario. He obviouslly didn't wear the blue shirt or the red shirt, (BUT he may have had more than one of each.) What else might prove it to be premeditated? hmmmm

Some say he didn't do it, the problem i have with this is who else has a motive that he would be happy to cover for?

 

[singers]

If there was a relationship btween the victim and accused perhaps it was a bit of a secret. When I was in high school i remember a girl doing the same thing, no-one believed they were together. We just thought they were good friends.

 

[KG1]

So why get a lift and thus a witness that puts you at the scene of the crime if it was planned? Only possible reason I can think of is if that person was involved also. Otherwise, I don't think it was planned.

I disagree, as I don't think anyone else was involved. I think the lift giver was just an innocent party, doing a mate/pal/acquaintance a good turn.

What intrigues me is the fact that a knife (likely a big one) was used on the victims. Where did that knife come from? Where is it now? Was it carried by the perpetrator - pre meditation? Was it obtained from the Rowe's property?

If the perpetrator went there with a knife, it must have been with the intention of using it. If he intended only to use it to subdue C whilst the sexual offence was committed, then it makes no sense; - as surely as God made little apples, to leave her alive after that, was to ensure his fate. Therefore he must have intended to kill her.

There has been mention on various posts that C had 'bad-mouthed' or denigrated him in some way. Pehaps he was so angered that he decided to throw the towel in - all or nothing! He was deeply hurt and angry for whatever reason C had upset him, took his knife, and decided to get what he wanted and make sure that no one else ever did. To hell with the consequences, but he obviously did not think laterally if he ever hoped to get away with C's murder.

The parents are a different story methinks. I believe that he was disturbed, first by R, who cried for help, and then A. He then, in his view, had no choice but to kill them, as he had been seen. No doubt there were enormous struggles by all the victims to defend themselves and save their lives, but it is unlikely that they had any defensive weapons, other than their hands. This is no match for a desperate frenzied perpetrator who is discovered and challenged.

It would appear that he spent a lot of time with C. He was dropped off around midnight, R's cries for help and A's loud voice were heard around 1.00am. So there is an hour without any alarms being raised anywhere and without any noises being heard.

I still think he went there with a knife and took it with him when he left. What do others think?

 

[smbc]

wow, ive been without a computer for 2 weeks and missed so much, have spent the last 2 days reading posts.

My main question is where has it been reported that he was definatly dropped off and with a bag? When did the person who dropped him off come forward?? Surely he would have the day the bodies were found.

 

[templers]

I think too that he went there with a knife.
He obviously did'nt have good intentions.
He would've known she was ill from her facebook status (they all keep up to date with facebook via their mobiles now), known she was going to bed, and yet he still goes around there? at that time?
Singer, someone on these pages has claimed that it was 'well known' that she was having a sexual relationship with the accused. Which does'nt add up to me. He could've certainly told people he was, as others have suggested, but I don't think he was.