Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[Sutton]

I too have noticed articles going missing and many of the old links from WS CSK forums going nowhere. I wonder if WS and other CSK forum users are tipping them off as to articles they need to remove.


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Idk about that, but we can all do our part by saving articles on http://archive.is, and then posting that link instead of the original.

(Internet Archive is another option.)

 

[snakesonplanes]

Subjudice.

There is no media blackout.

 

[Sutton]

yes, possibly, but i'm speculating about SSkeyring, sutton, i think it would definitely be the more likely of items — more so than any personalised item of jewelry.
a sunflower keyring might even have been inconspicuously put to general use in the home, because, at that time in the 90's, sunflower paraphernalia was very common ... i mean, popular and inexpensive ... therefore, as a souvenir, it might not need to be secreted as obviously as a very distinctive item of personalised, more valuable jewelry ... we all know police had a replica of the sunflower keyring, they showed us often enough.
theoretically, "if" his ex had found something to turn in, the police would have wanted to protect her, and there was a mention of a restraint order in an early news article, i was questioned by your good self for mentioning it in a comment i'd made on thread ... then i couldn't cite my source which had disappeared from any article i was able to find.
by the end of that day, i noted JoeD(i think?) had posed that someone should ask @paigetaylor(?) what exactly it was that she had wanted to say, and which her lawyers may have possibly asked her to redact ... this is all from my memory and i hope i'm not violating TOS.
i did mention in a defensive comment, that a restraint order is not always indicative of a DV type scenario, but that an order can be put in place for no more reason than to prevent communication during criminal proceedings (i know this because it's a situation i'v been)
the facts i mention are true, however my theory on the SSkeyring is only speculated, but if you think about it, it would certainly lead to charges outside of those existing.


[emoji887]

A sunflower keychain would be common enough to overlook, probably even today.

If this scenario happened, I wonder how it all started to unravel?

My only issue with this possibility is VG was still living at the house (possibly only part-time) up until the arrest.

Did anyone tweet @paigetaylor?

 

[JoWa]

It's very interesting the dates new info was being released by police (2015) . That's basically the time BRE and CG split.


The planned disposal sites is interesting. How could police know it was pre planned? Maybe they were in bush just off walking tracks that you had to be a local to know about (CG seems to have been anyway)

I'm thinking they had to have linked fibres on both bodies to be able to charge BRE with both murders or perhaps there was a specific way in which they were killed/found that proves it had to be one person responsible.

Dna was found on CG I believe. Doubtful any on JR considering the time passed and the weather.

Hope it is all strong enough to prove guilt. Not just stray hair on a jumper or something (unless it's hair that was pulled out of his head from a victim)

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I don't know about CG site but JR site would be difficult to get to at night without knowing exactly where you were going. I lived in a suburb north of wellard at the time. Not only did the freeway end at Armadale Rd, requiring back road knowledge, but most had minimal lighting. Driving home at night was terrible, the roads all looked identical and it would be easy to get lost without knowing exactly where you were going.


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[petedavo.au]

I didn't think they could narrow the time of death down to an exact day after weeks out in the elements, isn't there usually a 24-48 hour window. Especially when found a significant time after death. Soon after could be interpreted as anytime over the next couple of days.


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We have a body farm to investigate that in Australia, so that Forensics experts can make accurate estimates http://m.uts.edu.au/research-and-te...cience/news/australia-gets-new-facility-study

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[Spinnaker]

Subjudice.

There is no media blackout.

Most of the Hughes blog is now down - see below.

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...ian/comments/has_a_serial_killer_blogged_here

 

[Spinnaker]

RE: ClaremontGhost 'hint' videos.

...

See the attached pics at the bottom of this post at thread #4 by papertrail:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12396408#post12396408

Someone mentioned having grabbed those videos - would love to know if they exist.

What are the views out there re the ClaremontGhost 'hint' videos? I wonder if BRE was involved in any way?

I too would like to know if anyone has a copy?

Interesting hint 2 & hint 6 which includes the Stirling bridge and Left Bank Hotel.

There are a number of small marinas directly opposite and near the Left Bank Hotel which has small boats. The photo of the boat heading under the Stirling bridge - that is the direction you have to sail to head out to sea or to Rottnest.

Another theory is that CSK met someone at the Left Bank. It has been around for a number of years and was a big Sunday Session venue also.

 

[Spinnaker]

Further to the above re the ClaremontGhost 'hint' videos (and TigerMoth video for that matter!) - the following article states that BRE enjoyed computer gaming. photography and video:

http://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/bradley-edwards-ordinary-suburban-life-before-his-arrest-for-claremont-killings-and-remand-in-prison/news-story/182cde6ee9022a03a731d77dac9af08d

Does this mean that BRE enjoyed making videos? Also wonder if there are videos on his computer which was taken by WAPOL?

 

[mandy.maree]

The driver of the vehicle/s that CG and SS were seen talking to or near have never come forward. Much like mystery man.

Also been looking at Pipidinny Road and I see why they figure there was preplanning involved. The road is straight and long with plenty of shrub and no lights. CSK would have been able to see cars coming from both ways long before they got near him and what he was doing.


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[Spinnaker]

i agree.
I don't believe they'd want to risk him destroying evidence, but if there was any possible substance to earlier police toying - not suggesting that they would toy, only that they'd want to have a watertight case before toying - might the prosecution's case already be much tighter than we've so far been led to believe?
i mean 'we' are still speculating as to how, and on what grounds, police were able to make a link to the accused's DNA, and whether that will stick.
further knowing police definitely won't put all their cards on the table until such time as absolutely necessary during later court proceedings ... just say as a prelude to gathering/matching DNA they had already a trophy/trophies in their "hushed possession" (possible scenario - eg. SSkeyring discovered by ex, handed in to police) this having then given police warranted suspicion to match his DNA to other matters.
might the police be keeping such a trophy as their trump card, intending to present as late evidence in the hope he is still pleading either not guilty, or guilty only as charged?

me not having a legal mind ....could they do that?

[emoji887]

I am not a Legal Eagle, however my understanding is that the prosecution have a duty to disclose all information/ evidence relevant to the case.

http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/conferences/prosecuting/rofe.pdf

 

[lampformypath]

You're right Spinnaker as I asked a similar question in previous post and a legal mind (can't remember who, sorry) answered all evidence must be shown to defence prior to trial, BUT surprise witnesses are allowed, and as this person alluded to, this can "blindside" the defence or prosecution lawyers. Interesting process isn't it?:lookingitup:

 

[BReVeTTe]

I am not a Legal Eagle, however my understanding is that the prosecution have a duty to disclose all information/ evidence relevant to the case.

http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/conferences/prosecuting/rofe.pdf

thanks spinnaker. if i didn't have a headache before reading that, i'v certainly got one now ...ow... i think i found my answer ...ow again
[emoji887]

 

[Spinnaker]

thanks spinnaker. if i didn't have a headache before reading that, i'v certainly got one now ...ow... i think i found my answer ...ow again
[emoji887]

Haha yes agree re the legal jargon.

Think it's fair to say EE should be an interesting witness when eventually goes to trial. Also they may have someone up their sleeve...


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[JoeDetective]

Pretty sure everyone's aware that police said something along the lines of 'one of the ways we can crack this case is by locating specific pieces of jewellery'. If the suspect knew they were onto him he'd quickly dispose of said jewellery.

You hardly need the police to tell you that if you have items of a murder victims they were wearing when they were last seen it may incriminate you.


Indeed I'd suspect most killers who keep 'trophies' would be fully aware of the risk, indeed this is a person willing to risk life in prison to commit murder I hardly think they would be scared by some WAPOL comments about jewellery.

If you had the trophies in a box buried somewhere or hidden in a wall or roof space, they may be very difficult to ever find.

 

[JoeDetective]

<modsnip>

My theory is they got a hit with familial DNA, which apparently they can get from minor crimes like drink driving charges now. Then they focused on that family and got a used coffee cup out of the trash used by BRE. Once they had confirmation, they arrested.


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My "theory" is a younger male relative of BREs over East got done for a minor offence(DUI/Drugs). Subsequently his DNA had a partial hit on the KK/CSK DNA, then over the course of many months, the police went about building a case against the accused who they had subsequently got a covert DNA match from.
Police went through the suspect's past, stumbled across the kimono case and linked that up through expensive DNA testing and used the kimono link as the narrative they wanted the media to run with to not alarm the community about how they got the DNA hit.

 

[petedavo.au]

You're right Spinnaker as I asked a similar question in previous post and a legal mind (can't remember who, sorry) answered all evidence must be shown to defence prior to trial, BUT surprise witnesses are allowed, and as this person alluded to, this can "blindside" the defence or prosecution lawyers. Interesting process isn't it?:lookingitup:

This is a generalised answer:

http://www.dpp.wa.gov.au/_files/statement_prosecution_policy2005.pdf

Section 35 of the Criminal Procedure Act is the relevant section to your specific enquiry:

https://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/main_mrtitle_11376_homepage.html

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[mandy.maree]

You hardly need the police to tell you that if you have items of a murder victims they were wearing when they were last seen it may incriminate you.

Indeed I'd suspect most killers who keep 'trophies' would be fully aware of the risk, indeed this is a person willing to risk life in prison to commit murder I hardly think they would be scared by some WAPOL comments about jewellery.

I agree.

This is a man who drove back to a small area that was no doubt under surveillance by police and cameras as two girls had very recently gone missing. ..and brazenly took a third! Right near where people were sitting at a bus stop!
I do not think he could control himself. If he wanted to keep trophies all this time-it would not surprise me.
Yes-it is stupid. ..but many have done it before him.

I'm sure hoping he kept things.


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[JoeDetective]

I agree.

This is a man who drove back to a small area that was no doubt under surveillance by police and cameras as two girls had very recently gone missing. ..and brazenly took a third! Right near where people were sitting at a bus stop!
I do not think he could control himself. If he wanted to keep trophies all this time-it would not surprise me.
Yes-it is stupid. ..but many have done it before him.

I'm sure hoping he kept things.


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I think the 2 most likely theories based on historical data I am aware of is
1. CSK destroyed/dumped the items shortly after the murders
2. CSK has put the items somewhere for safekeeping

 

[mandy.maree]

I think the 2 most likely theories based on historical data I am aware of is
1. CSK destroyed/dumped the items shortly after the murders
2. CSK has put the items somewhere for safekeeping

I think anything he kept would not have been at his current home. That would be beyond stupid. Especially after all the 2015 reports of new links and evidence

I'm still curious as to why items that supposedly didn't belong to JR were found with her. Where did they come from? Who's where they and why were they there?



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[Spinnaker]

RE: ClaremontGhost 'hint' videos.

What are the views out there re the ClaremontGhost 'hint' videos? I wonder if BRE was involved in any way?

I too would like to know if anyone has a copy?

Interesting hint 2 & hint 6 which includes the Stirling bridge and Left Bank Hotel.

There are a number of small marinas directly opposite and near the Left Bank Hotel which has small boats. The photo of the boat heading under the Stirling bridge - that is the direction you have to sail to head out to sea or to Rottnest.

Another theory is that CSK met someone at the Left Bank. It has been around for a number of years and was a big Sunday Session venue also.

Ok a bit of a hypothetical here relating to the ClaremontGhost 'hint' videos, the connection to the Left Bank Hotel (shown in the 'hint' videos) in East Fremantle and the CG's claddagh brooch which was missing (link re brooch http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/f...ss-as-serial-killer-still-roams-free-1.149685 )

A certain blogger has mentioned that a casual worker at an East Fremantle Company had a girlfriend who wore a claddagh ring and that CG wore a claddagh (Irish) brooch. He also went onto say that it was co-incidental, that is he had thought - he also mentioned that the worker was capable of turning the brooch into a ring.

Some thoughts below:

Is the mention of the East Fremantle Company indeed the Left Bank?
Is it possible that BRE worked at the Left Bank or knew someone who worked at the Left Bank?
Is it possible BRE turned the claddagh brooch into a ring and gave it to his girlfriend/wife?