Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[Wyke]

..why would a teenager who's family lived on an acreage, with a holiday home up the road from Mandurah, who's father had a decent job develop a deep seated resentment against Claremont per ce...

...Gosnells and Huntingdale were not on the same socio-economic scale as Claremont and its surrounding areas that were/are some of Perth's most expensive and 'elite' suburbs. Probably risking my life here saying this - but there's no comparison between the two areas!! Entirely different ends of the scale. So its not too much of a stretch to imagine a young man from Huntingdale/Gosnells area feeling envious or jealous about the 'wealth' in the Claremont area, and have this turn into a larger hatred for what ever reasons over the years. There could be many reasons. Could have been the footy reason. Or BRE could have been rejected once or numerous times from women who live in Claremont. Who knows! I'm just throwing ideas out to sleuthers!

I can think of a reason why he may choose such an area as Claremont that does NOT include 'jealousy of wealth' directly.

In my line of work as a technician (not with Telecom/Telstra) I have come across a few very wealthy clients who "look down their nose" at people in my line of work. Perhaps THAT was one of the 'triggers', IF people want to speculate about 'triggers'

Again, just MO, providing input to others' theories and not necessarily what I believe occurred. :thinking:

 

[janwa]

I can think of a reason why he may choose such an area as Claremont that does NOT include 'jealousy of wealth' directly.

In my line of work as a technician (not with Telecom/Telstra) I have come across a few very wealthy clients who "look down their nose" at people in my line of work. Perhaps THAT was one of the 'triggers', IF people want to speculate about 'triggers'

Again, just MO, providing input to others' theories and not necessarily what I believe occurred. :thinking:

Yes I can go with the idea of being slighted being a trigger but I think it would manifest towards an individual or possibly a person attached to that individual, that would also funnel the rage in a specific direction. This SK seems to have developed his trigger to release his rage (probably silent though eventually deadly rage) early on so I believe that is where the answer lies. In my humble opinion.

 

[Wyke]

Yes I can go with the idea of being slighted being a trigger but I think it would manifest towards an individual or possibly a person attached to that individual, that would also funnel the rage in a specific direction. This SK seems to have developed his trigger to release his rage (probably silent though eventually deadly rage) early on so I believe that is where the answer lies. In my humble opinion.

Yup, totally agree with that. However, if he wasn't moving in those social circles, he could just see a wealthy person as a representation of a group to direct anger towards.

Just MOO, and not my belief. Simply exploring others' theories.

 

[Str8talkr]

Another article with quotes from Lee Rimmer. Understandably, she wants to confront her sister's alleged killer.
https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/clar...-jane-rimmers-sister-speaks-out-ng-b88363412z

 

[crabstick]

IMO it will not be jealousy or rage of a serial killer. This is about ego, infamy. This is the same area that Cooke, Brinies committed their crimes.

The motive in this particular Trinity crime is notoriety.

1.Notoriety
2.Narcisstic
3.Megalomaniac
4.Copycat

 

[crabstick]

The police have said nothing about ferocious rage, stabbings, or anything to that nature. Pages of discussion have been about strangulation.

These girls weren't 'wealthy'. The first two were living in flats. In the scope of the area, these three girls would be considered not wealthy at all. If a serial killer was targeting wealth, he/she picked the wrong prey. Wealthy people don't put kids generally in flats.

People may have forgotten, Mosman park was full of Homeswest flats and druggies. It was originally a very working class area unless you lived on 'the rivers edge'. To some extent Mosman park is still full of flats and druggies. In the day, the drug would have mostly been heroin. Although it was a period where ecstasy had started to make inroads

If the serial killer was to target 'wealth' in its purity, he sure picked the wrong prey.

If anything of the day, you could consider Claremont these areas that of the anglo saxon. Very different today.

Claremont had sure as eggs become the prime entertainment district of the time. There had been a shift from the CBD and Fremantle to Claremont.

I think this perpetrator has targeted Stirling highway and Claremont as a copycat of Cooke and mostly the Birnies.

None of the commentary by police has ever been about rage. This is a redux of sorts from the Birnie era. IMO.

 

[CP345]

The police have said nothing about ferocious rage, stabbings, or anything to that nature. Pages of discussion have been about strangulation.

These girls weren't 'wealthy'. The first two were living in flats. In the scope of the area, these three girls would be considered not wealthy at all. If a serial killer was targeting wealth, he/she picked the wrong prey.

People may have forgotten, Mosman park was full of Homeswest flats and druggies. It was originally a very working class area unless you lived on 'the rivers edge'. To some extent Mosman park is still full of flats and druggies. In the day, it would have been heroin.

If the serial killer was to target 'wealth' in its purity, he sure picked the wrong prey.

I don't really disagree but when you compare it to the theory I saw in here that the three girls were part of a 'shamrock trinity' including only one irish person based on their date of birth multiplied by the amount of spanners in a sidchrome tool kit squared it looks pretty good...

 

[Nugget77]

.

Claremont had sure as eggs become the prime entertainment district of the time. There had been a shift from the CBD and Fremantle to Claremont.

Can you clarify this point please? In what way was it the 'prime' entertainment district?

 

[crabstick]

There had been a large shift to Claremont of the day. I started to doubt myself and spoke to someone my age who had parents with a business in the area.
I didn't even have to ask the question. They said to me in discussion that Claremont had a large influx of people that would normally visit the other stated precincts that were considered the main entertainment centres.
Claremont entertainment district had momentum which to some degree flattened once three girls were killed within the immediate area within a year.

Can you clarify this point please? In what way was it the 'prime' entertainment district?

 

[crabstick]

I find it interesting the current POI moved with his partner within 8 houses of his Huntingdale primary school.

With all the discussion of affluence, a Telecom worker was relatively well paid with a lifetime prospect of work without ever having to worry about updating a resume. 1995 was to change all that as it was announced Telstra was to be privatised.

He had a partner who was a lawyer. Between the two of them, on their income, they could have afforded a house anywhere. Houses in Mosman park were $80000.

His home in Acton st was not even mowed, but people in here found evidence of a lawnmower hire business. Some contradiction.
Was he the ultimate communist? Either way, very enterprising.

 

[CP345]

There had been a large shift to Claremont of the day. I started to doubt myself and spoke to someone my age who had parents with a business in the area.
I didn't even have to ask the question. They said to me in discussion that Claremont had a large influx of people that would normally visit the other stated precincts that were considered the main entertainment precincts.
Claremont entertainment district had momentum which to some degree flattened once three girls were killed within the immediate area within a year.

This didn't mean Claremont was the 'prime entertainment district'. A large pub and one nightclub doesn't cut the mustard. It was and still is what can only be described as a boutique entertainment district. These districts typically have a local crowd and attract a fickle crowd of outsiders who will go wherever the 'trendy' places are. The killings certainly didn't help at the time but the outsiders would have moved on anyway.

 

[Nugget77]

There had been a large shift to Claremont of the day. I started to doubt myself and spoke to someone my age who had parents with a business in the area.
I didn't even have to ask the question. They said to me in discussion that Claremont had a large influx of people that would normally visit the other stated precincts that were considered the main entertainment precincts.
Claremont entertainment district had momentum which to some degree flattened once three girls were killed within the immediate area within a year.

Whilst I would agree that it would have been one of the areas of choice, by sheer weight of numbers it was still far behind Northbridge and Fremantle at this time. Arguably Leederville attracted larger numbers too and it may have been on par with Subiaco.

If you are talking about in terms of supposed 'classiness' then perhaps it could be said to have a more 'classy' clientele than Northbridge and Fremantle which catered across the board.

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that it was not in the top 2-3 entertainment districts by numbers in WA at the time of the attacks. For people that don't know Perth, it's important that they don't think that Claremont was the Kings Cross of Perth. It was a suburban area with a reasonable shopping precinct/village that at night had restuarants, a couple of pubs/bars and one nightclub. It's one of the Western Suburbs which is one of the more affluent ares of Perth.

 

[CP345]

I find it interesting the current POI moved with his partner within 8 houses of his Huntingdale primary school.

With all the discussion of affluence, a Telecom worker was relatively well paid with a lifetime prospect of work without ever having to worry about updating a resume. 1995 was to change all that as it was announced Telstra was to be privatised.

He had a partner who was a lawyer. Between the two of them, on their income, they could have afforded a house anywhere. Houses in Mosman park were $80000.

His home in Acton st was not even mowed, but people in here found evidence of a lawnmower hire business. Some contradiction.
Was he the ultimate communist? Either way, very enterprising.

Depends who's eyes you are looking through. Different people have different values. Many people feel comfortable in the area they grew up in with familiar surroundings and closeness to family. Perhaps he valued this over and above the status of living in what might be looked at as a wealthy area. His later home in Acton Ave was close to his wife's family. Perhaps the sense of family belonging was more important than the environment he actually lived in. Would I want lawn like that? No. But I know many people who don't care.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

The police have said nothing about ferocious rage, stabbings, or anything to that nature. Pages of discussion have been about strangulation.

These girls weren't 'wealthy'. The first two were living in flats. In the scope of the area, these three girls would be considered not wealthy at all. If a serial killer was targeting wealth, he/she picked the wrong prey. Wealthy people don't put kids generally in flats.

People may have forgotten, Mosman park was full of Homeswest flats and druggies. It was originally a very working class area unless you lived on 'the rivers edge'. To some extent Mosman park is still full of flats and druggies. In the day, the drug would have mostly been heroin. Although it was a period where ecstasy had started to make inroads

If the serial killer was to target 'wealth' in its purity, he sure picked the wrong prey.

If anything of the day, you could consider Claremont these areas that of the anglo saxon. Very different today.

Claremont had sure as eggs become the prime entertainment district of the time. There had been a shift from the CBD and Fremantle to Claremont.

I think this perpetrator has targeted Stirling highway and Claremont as a copycat of Cooke and mostly the Birnies.

None of the commentary by police has ever been about rage. This is a redux of sorts from the Birnie era. IMO.

I think if a SK chooses random victims from a wealthy suburb nightlife area, then then's more chance that the victims were 'wealthier' than random victims chosen from less wealthy area. Of course it all by chance if the victims are strangers to the SK.

Different all together if the SK knows the victims personally before the crime.

I agree that the CSK liked the notoriety.

 

[Nugget77]

I think if a SK chooses random victims from a wealthy suburb nightlife area, then then's more chance that the victims were 'wealthier' than random victims chosen from less wealthy area. Of course it all by chance if the victims are strangers to the SK.

Different all together if the SK knows the victims personally before the crime.

I agree that the CSK liked the notoriety.

I'm a little sceptical about him choosing his victims because they are affluent. But let's just quickly look at his selction.

Many serial killers choose to kill prostitutes because there is less chance of detection. In this case, our SK has decided to take a greater risk. Why?

It's going to be all about motivation. He doesn't appear to be as worried about getting caught so has gone for 'normal' girls (apologies to anyone if my terminology offends) as opposed to prostitutes.

Now if his appetite is to go for 'normal' girls then perhaps it's just a matter of finding a killing ground with the best chance of finding 'normal' girls and a smaller chance of detection.

Once again this comes back to choosing from areas with lots of 'normal' girls out at night. Northbridge, Fremantle, Leederville, Subiaco, Claremont etc.

In all likelihood I think he chose Claremont because there are 5/6 major choices and for me, Northbridge and Fremantle are too risky.

I would argue that it's more likely he chose Claremont because of the opportunity to target (and get away) with normal girls as opposed to simply having a grudge against 'rich girls'.

I'd be interested to know which areas would be targetted if the 'rich girl' thing wasn't an issue. Is there anyone on here who would work out a rating system for best area to hunt?

 

[CP345]

I think if a SK chooses random victims from a wealthy suburb nightlife area, then then's more chance that the victims were 'wealthier' than random victims chosen from less wealthy area. Of course it all by chance if the victims are strangers to the SK.

Different all together if the SK knows the victims personally before the crime.

I agree that the CSK liked the notoriety.

I agree. I think these were opportunistic attacks with some possibility he had met the girls but this was only relevant in that it helped with the initial abduction. This is only my opinion like everything else on here but to believe that the girls were targeted as a result of ethnicity, birthdates, perceived slights over work issues, connections to the legal profession or the school they attended is fanciful in the extreme. We lived in a pre Facebook world where the internet was little more than a curiousity. The world was much more private. Seriously, to suggest that an alleged killer, a phone technician from huntingdale had firstly the inclination and secondly the tools and skills to get this information and act upon it with murderous intent is ludicrous. I for one am looking forward to hearing the evidence so all of the crackpot theories can be put to bed once and for all.

 

[iCandy]

I find it interesting the current POI moved with his partner within 8 houses of his Huntingdale primary school.

With all the discussion of affluence, a Telecom worker was relatively well paid with a lifetime prospect of work without ever having to worry about updating a resume. 1995 was to change all that as it was announced Telstra was to be privatised.

He had a partner who was a lawyer. Between the two of them, on their income, they could have afforded a house anywhere. Houses in Mosman park were $80000.

His home in Acton st was not even mowed, but people in here found evidence of a lawnmower hire business. Some contradiction.
Was he the ultimate communist? Either way, very enterprising.

I thought his first wife was a legal secretary, not a lawyer. I can tell you from experience, they're not paid that well for what they have to know and do,


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Because taxi's were very scarce back in the late 90's, punters would often go out and socialise in their local area where they lived. Where there was better chance of getting a lift home, walking home, or doing a sneaky quick drive home after a few drinks. Not that i condone drink driving either.

Taxi ranks were useless, because punters knew it was easier to hail a cab up the street from the taxi rank (therefore 'jumping the line') than wait in the line, because taxi drivers back then would pick up a fare close to a taxi rank, without even going close to the taxi rank.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I agree. I think these were opportunistic attacks with some possibility he had met the girls but this was only relevant in that it helped with the initial abduction. This is only my opinion like everything else on here but to believe that the girls were targeted as a result of ethnicity, birthdates, perceived slights over work issues, connections to the legal profession or the school they attended is fanciful in the extreme. We lived in a pre Facebook world where the internet was little more than a curiousity. The world was much more private. Seriously, to suggest that an alleged killer, a phone technician from huntingdale had firstly the inclination and secondly the tools and skills to get this information and act upon it with murderous intent is ludicrous. I for one am looking forward to hearing the evidence so all of the crackpot theories can be put to bed once and for all.

Agreed. SK's tend to choose random victims, sometimes victims from a subgroup of society (eg women, blondes, brunettes, long hair, smaller stature etc etc) not victims they know. Homicide victims are usually known to the perps.

FBI SK WEBSITE
"The same logical steps are taken when investigating homicide cases. As most homicides are committed by someone known to the victim, police focus on the relationships closest to the victim. This is a successful strategy for most murder investigations. The majority of serial murderers, however, are not acquainted with or involved in a consensual relationship with their victims.
For the most part, serial murder involves strangers with no visible relationship between the offender and the victim. This distinguishes a serial murder investigation as a more nebulous undertaking than that of other crimes. Since the investigations generally lack an obvious connection between the offender and the victim, investigators instead attempt to discern the motivations behind the murders, as a way to narrow their investigative focus."

furthermore...

"An offender selects a victim, regardless of the category, based upon availability, vulnerability, and desirability. Availability is explained as the lifestyle of the victim or circumstances in which the victim is involved, that allow the offender access to the victim. Vulnerability is defined as the degree to which the victim is susceptible to attack by the offender. Desirability is described as the appeal of the victim to the offender. Desirability involves numerous factors based upon the motivation of the offender and may include factors dealing with the race, gender, ethnic background, age of the victim, or other specific preferences the offender determines."

https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

 

[janwa]

The police have said nothing about ferocious rage, stabbings, or anything to that nature. Pages of discussion have been about strangulation.


None of the commentary by police has ever been about rage. This is a redux of sorts from the Birnie era. IMO.

I wasn't referring to ferocious rage I said silent rage. I think most people have felt that to some point but in general don't act on it that is one of the basic rules of being part of a community. The SK has no brakes so to speak or at best they only work intermittently.