Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[silver tongue]

gee a bit hard;
that song comes to mind ; who can it be knocking at my door,

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

<modsnip>

Can I ask everybody "what are our common goals and aims for these current CSK threads?"

WAPOL have charged the alleged CSK BRE. So we can continue discussing BRE and his suspected motives and/or other possible linked crimes.

But are we still trying to locate the remains of SS? So her family and friends can lay her down in peace.

Another suggestion: Are we interested in finding the place/s where BRE took his victims between Claremont abductions and their final resting sites?

<modsnip>

What are our collective goals?

 

[7SJ707]

(modsnip) who developed a rigid idea that the CSK was confined to 3 crimes in the Claremont area and have developed a fixation with the minute details of that 1996/1997 period.
(modsnip) who consider the killings may have in fact commenced in 1988, occurred in different areas of the State( and perhaps Interstate) across different socio/economic demographics ,and may well run into double figure numbers are (modsnip).
The situation is not helped by the puzzling almost complete WA media blackout concerning this huge public interest case to date.
In Melbourne last month a pathetic imbecile ran down a number of people in the City. Within 48 hours his parents, former schoolmates and associates,girlfriend and even an old Police Sergeant had been tracked down and interviewed and the imbeciles history was completely known.
However 2 months after the huge CSK arrest, the best the WA media can do is a REIWA inspired prospective purchaser like, walk through of the accused former house. Why.?

 

[MsAnais]

Yes i agree there are a number of self appointed "little emperors" on these threads .They seem to mainly be long term posters who developed a rigid idea that the CSK was confined to 3 crimes in the Claremont area and have developed a fixation with the minute details of that 1996/1997 period.
"Big Picture " posters who consider the killings may have in fact commenced in 1988, occurred in different areas of the State( and perhaps Interstate) across different socio/economic demographics ,and may well run into double figure numbers are an a headache for these" flat earthers".
The situation is not helped by the puzzling almost complete WA media blackout concerning this huge public interest case to date.
In Melbourne last month a pathetic imbecile ran down a number of people in the City. Within 48 hours his parents, former schoolmates and associates,girlfriend and even an old Police Sergeant had been tracked down and interviewed and the imbeciles history was completely known.
However 2 months after the huge CSK arrest, the best the WA media can do is a REIWA inspired prospective purchaser like, walk through of the accused former house. Why.?

I find the WA media blackout deeply alarming. It makes me super suspicious. Where is the transparency?

Apparently the media are fully in the pocket of LE......and that doesn't serve anyone.

And don't even get me started on the fact that there is only one major WA newspaper. That always blows my mind. So much for balanced journalism.....:facepalm:

 

[JoWa]

What I've noticed lately on these CSK threads is that the mood is quite tense, and the members seem to be heavily critiquing each other's posts, and turning against each other, rather than working together towards a goal.

Every member here probably has their own personal reasons why they spend time reading and contributing to these CSK threads. The events of the CSK affect many people, and in Perth it's becoming common that lots of people have some 'connection' to the case, the alleged BRE, the victims, or their family and friends. There is a lot of emotion around.

Would it be time to refocus our (the members) energies??

Can I ask everybody "what are our common goals and aims for these current CSK threads?"

WAPOL have charged the alleged CSK BRE. So we can continue discussing BRE and his suspected motives and/or other possible linked crimes.

But are we still trying to locate the remains of SS? So her family and friends can lay her down in peace.

Another suggestion: Are we interested in finding the place/s where BRE took his victims between Claremont abductions and their final resting sites?

I'd like to see us working together towards common goals, allowing space for disagreements, while promoting discussion with respect of others opinions and speculations.

And lastly I'm not an admin, just a concerned member voicing an opinion, who basically wants to see these threads remain open.

What are our collective goals?

I'm interested in where he killed them and if he stopped why? Not really positive yet that he would stop completely.
Do we know the timeline of his accommodation around the murders? He moved into his parents house, was this after the murders? Could be a reason he stopped as he no longer had a place to kill them in private.
Just an idea that has been going around in my head and interested on anyone else's thoughts.

 

[BReVeTTe]

Just a quick post to test if I'm banned or have been given a time out? My posts have been removed and I'm new to posting, so I'm unsure (long time reader though)....

if a post breaches guidelines it is removed by admin without notification ... or modsnipped, in which case there will be a reason given at the end of your post to say why it was edited.
if someone else's post is removed and you've quoted it in a reply, your reply will also be removed along with the post you quoted.

if you were cautioned, timed out, or banned, i'm pretty sure you'd be the first to know via a notification from admin


[emoji887]

 

[Spinnaker]

<modsnip>

Can I ask everybody "what are our common goals and aims for these current CSK threads?"

WAPOL have charged the alleged CSK BRE. So we can continue discussing BRE and his suspected motives and/or other possible linked crimes.

But are we still trying to locate the remains of SS? So her family and friends can lay her down in peace.

Another suggestion: Are we interested in finding the place/s where BRE took his victims between Claremont abductions and their final resting sites?

<modsnip>

What are our collective goals?

Agree Spooks-R-Us that it would be good to concentrate on location of SS - If we could also consider JC & SM would be great as possibly connected.

Also think places where BRE took victims is relevant.

At the moment we have the following as potential locations:

- KK Cemetery (Based on the 1995 attack)
- Premises on Government Road, alongside Karrakatta Cemetery (article attached)
- Lakeway Drive-in Theatre/ Oceanview Drive-In-theatre - Narla Road Swanbourne (article attached) &#8211; vacant land for many years as per link

http://www.ammpt.asn.au/CinemaWEB/SITE/view.php?rec_id=0000000485

Does anyone have anywhere else to add to this list?

There have been many posts over many years and lots of speculation on lines and patterns - you long-time sleuths out there would be fully aware! I do believe that there is something in this and that the answers are already in the threads. We just need to figure out which.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

I'm interested in where he killed them and if he stopped why? Not really positive yet that he would stop completely.
Do we know the timeline of his accommodation around the murders? He moved into his parents house, was this after the murders? Could be a reason he stopped as he no longer had a place to kill them in private.
Just an idea that has been going around in my head and interested on anyone else's thoughts.

Are you suggesting the alleged CSK took victims to his home or his parents home (while these houses were empty) to do the killing??

 

[MissUnderstood]

I'm guessing WAPOL have their own reasons why they are not releasing details of the crimes. And it's very frustrating not knowing what they know. But I think it's usual protocol in these high profile cases to 'drip feed' info to MSM and the public .

All we know there was a DNA match, possibly familial DNA. We know he worked for Telstra, we know his addresses both current and past. We know he played footy, followed AFL and helped with little athletics, and he has entered no plea thus far.
Pretty sure that's the only facts so far.

Love to know what else they have, because it seems odd nothing else has come out.
Moo




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BReVeTTe]

Agree Spooks-R-Us that it would be good to concentrate on location of SS - If we could also consider JC & SM would be great as possibly connected.

Also think places where BRE took victims is relevant.

At the moment we have the following as potential locations:

- KK Cemetery (Based on the 1995 attack)
- Premises on Government Road, alongside Karrakatta Cemetery (article attached)
- Lakeway Drive-in Theatre/ Oceanview Drive-In-theatre - Narla Road Swanbourne (article attached) – vacant land for many years as per link

http://www.ammpt.asn.au/CinemaWEB/SITE/view.php?rec_id=0000000485

Does anyone have anywhere else to add to this list?

There have been many posts over many years and lots of speculation on lines and patterns - you long-time sleuths out there would be fully aware! I do believe that there is something in this and that the answers are already in the threads. We just need to figure out which.

i believe kings park would be the most obvious place to search ... if anyone disagrees, please give reason(s)

& one thing i noticed about perth - the soil - it's very sandy, and very easy to dig ... and at night, kings park was also very dark and secluded
[emoji887]

 

[Spinnaker]

Very much agree re Kings Park.

I would like to add Claremont Lake to that - not sure if it was searched at time though.

 

[Eaglette]

Kings Park I would have never have thought of - until the Rayney fiasco. Kings Park - a place where individuals hanged themselves - and, bodies not found for over 3 months. Yes - I would agree Kings Park - large - pitch black and plenty of burial or non-burial spots. Foxes abound too. Quite a few ways in and out and very close to Stirling Highway - Mounts Bay Road.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

See WS PHOTOS NO DISCUSSION THREAD
post #24 pg 2 by enzeder

as below.....



The Courage of our Convictions - The Claremont Serial Killer
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...202#transcript

Sunday 25 June 2000

Excerpt:


Back on the Gold Coast at Bond University, Paul Wilson's colleague, criminologist Wayne Petherick, provides an insight into the FBI profiling philosophy.

He's reading from the FBI textbook definition of an organised killer, which closely reflects the profile details publicised by the West Australian police in the Claremont case.

Wayne Petherick: The determination of an organised crime scene is made based on the fact the offence is usually pre-planned, the victim is a targeted stranger, they tend to personalise the victim, they use controlled conversation, the crime scene reflects an overall theme of control or organisation; they demand a submissive victim, they use restraints, there's aggressive acts prior to death, the body is hidden, the weapon or evidence is absent and they usually transport the victim or body, so what that would imply is that there's usually a primary crime scene, followed up by some either secondary or peripheral crime scenes, or perhaps dump sites.

Gerald Tooth: And then what assumptions are made about what type of person would commit a crime like that?

Wayne Petherick: OK, well once the determination of the crime scene is made, generally they will go across to the offender characteristics. It would then be assumed that the offender has average to above-average intelligence, they are socially competent, they prefer skilled work, they're sexually competent, they have higher birth order, their father's work is stable though they had some inconsistent childhood discipline, they have a controlled mood during the crime, they may use alcohol or drugs with the crime, they usually operate according to some precipitating situational stress, so that could be a fight with a partner, loss of a job, loss of some money gambling, they generally live with a partner, they have a mobility, generally speaking a car that's kept in good condition, and they will follow the crime in the news and the media, and they may change jobs or leave town.

Gerald Tooth: With that last characteristic, can you explain how that has been significant in the Claremont investigation?

Wayne Petherick: It would appear that the media has been used in a certain way, whether it be to goad the offender, try to bring the offender out, try to initiate some kind of behaviour on the part of the offender, through using the media, because it is assumed that the organised offender will follow the crime in the news and media. So what they are hoping is that he is following what they're saying, and may act or react in some way to the information they're giving.


last paragraph re MSM

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Very much agree re Kings Park.

I would like to add Claremont Lake to that - not sure if it was searched at time though.

I vaguely recall a lake being searched.....maybe after Jane's disappearance.


About Kings Park, its often used as a shortcut, and back in the day a "racetrack"!!! lol
And its pretty obvious when someones parked up late at night and I'm guessing its usually couples "snuggling" in the back seat!!!
I think KP would be too risky.

 

[fadedphoto]

I am also shocked by the apparent media "blackout." Spooks asked us why we keep coming back to this forum. For me it's because there is so little in the media.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

http://newsstore.fairfax.com.au/app...0&sp=adv&clsPage=1&docID=news970613_0194_0458

VERY INTERESTING background info discussing Claremont council head honchos and local business owners, and their views on whether Claremont needed more surveillance cameras back in 1996-1997 era.

I can't post quotes here, because the names being discussed are NO longer POI's and article also includes other innocent parties. I am not suggesting sleuthing innocent people, but rather this article may provide background info describing the political and business arena around Claremont in the late 90's.

Link originally posted by enzeder in PHOTOS no discussion, #47 pg4.

 

[CP345]

(modsnip) They seem to mainly be long term posters who developed a rigid idea that the CSK was confined to 3 crimes in the Claremont area and have developed a fixation with the minute details of that 1996/1997 period.
(modsnip) who consider the killings may have in fact commenced in 1988, occurred in different areas of the State( and perhaps Interstate) across different socio/economic demographics ,and may well run into double figure numbers are (modsnip).
The situation is not helped by the puzzling almost complete WA media blackout concerning this huge public interest case to date.
In Melbourne last month a pathetic imbecile ran down a number of people in the City. Within 48 hours his parents, former schoolmates and associates,girlfriend and even an old Police Sergeant had been tracked down and interviewed and the imbeciles history was completely known.
However 2 months after the huge CSK arrest, the best the WA media can do is a REIWA inspired prospective purchaser like, walk through of the accused former house. Why.?

(modsnip) do you think the CSK is responsible for Julie Cutler in 88? If so do you think they have the right man? Seems unusual to me that the man they've arrested was known to be climbing in windows close to home in his late teens in 88. He was scared away by the girl screaming and while trying to escape dropped an important piece of evidence that eventually led to his demise. Seems pretty amateur on the grand scale of things.

Keep in mind the circumstances of the Cutler disappearance, the lack of clues and the car left out in the ocean potentially to dispose of evidence. These two crimes seem on the opposite end of the scale to me. Move forward to 91 and the Turner murder I think it's at least more plausible.

Just the way I'm seeing things of course. Hope I'm not condemned to the flat earth society.

As for the police silence over things. I think two words explain it. Lloyd Rayney. While I think the media do whatever they do to feather their own nest perhaps they've recognised the importance of keeping somewhat quiet on this to avoid harming the prosecution. More likely they've been threatened and gagged.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Confirmation that WAPOL had video footage of Ciara walking in Claremont.

1997
http://newsstore.fairfax.com.au/apps/viewDocument.ac?page=1&sy=age&kw=ciara+glennon&pb=all_ffx&dt=selectRange&dr=entire&so=relevance&sf=text&sf=headline&rc=20&rm=200&sp=adv&clsPage=1&docID=news970318_0196_9892

"Since Ms Spiers' disappearance, security in Claremont has been tightened. A local committee was formed, more public phones installed and the area floodlit. Video cameras have been fitted outside nightclubs and the Continental Hotel. These recorded Ms Glennon's departure, but not who she met."

Link originally posted by enzeder in PHOTOS #55 pg 4

Why didn't WAPOL release this video footage to jog people's memories?????

 

[janwa]

Well that's interesting because I've heard the opposite from people who know the family. :thinking:

But it's all unsubstantiated hearsay, obviously, until after the trial...... (when all will hopefully be revealed)

I think that the opinions of people that know BE or have had some interaction or second hand unconfirmed knowledge may depend on what age he was at the time.

Kings Park could be a possibility regarding planned placements. It could be the "jewel in the crown" The first of that trio.

Anyone who sat in on the Police Royal Commission would have heard all about the buried drug and gun stashes in there.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

re: Profile of CSK......from 1997

"David Caldwell, special agent in charge, forensic science services, South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, had been flown in to help find the Claremont killer. He told his audience that a typical serial rapist "kills to get rid of the evidence, but this guy really likes killing".

Do you think this suggestion "this guy really likes killing" fits what we know about BRE?

1997
http://newsstore.fairfax.com.au/app...0&sp=adv&clsPage=1&docID=news970613_0194_0458