Australia Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #12

[BReVeTTe]

do we have a precise name & location for the 'coffee shop' where a plastic bag, containing JC's work blouse, was found?


[emoji887]

 

[Spinnaker]

Hi All

I am sorry I keep going on about JC and the CSK - I am aware that the general consensus on this site is that JC is not related to CSK. The comments from everyone does make sense re MO in 1988 etc! I also really appreciate the reasoning behind the views!

For some reason, my instinct is telling me otherwise and I am still pursuing this in regards to CSK's first murder.

I wanted to raise the fact that the Cottesloe abduction in 1989 (I have attached the article again to refresh) occurred in the car park directly opposite the location JC's car was found. Effectively the car park overlooks the same beach the Fiat was found.

 

[nini83]

http://www.news.com.au/news/vanishe...g/news-story/1f9da6564bf58fdfb6f6532c5e7b5d2f

The above article states

A year later, a white Parmelia Hilton uniform blouse was handed in to police.

The blouse was a size 14 — Ms Cutler’s size — and was one of 37 made exclusively for the hotel’s staff.

It had been found about the time Ms Cutler went missing with a pair of black pantyhose in a plastic bag under a table at the King Kebab takeaway in Centreway Arcade, Perth, a five-minute walk from the Parmelia Hilton.

do we have a precise name & location for the 'coffee shop' where a plastic bag, containing JC's work blouse, was found?


[emoji887]

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[JoWa]

Hi All

I am sorry I keep going on about JC and the CSK - I am aware that the general consensus on this site is that JC is not related to CSK. The comments from everyone does make sense re MO in 1988 etc! I also really appreciate the reasoning behind the views!

For some reason, my instinct is telling me otherwise and I am still pursuing this in regards to CSK's first murder.

I wanted to raise the fact that the Cottesloe abduction in 1989 (I have attached the article again to refresh) occurred in the car park directly opposite the location JC's car was found. Effectively the car park overlooks the same beach the Fiat was found.

I understand where you are coming from as I think BEs MO was not fully developed at this time.

In 1988 he attempted a home invasion attack which didn't fit the CSK MO. It is possible that JC was another attempt to find his MO.

I would be interested in finding out if JC lived alone at the time, and if it were possible that she returned home and was taken from there in another home invasion. Someone said earlier her purse was found at home, can that be verified?

It can't hurt to look at JC. To add to your theory one of the news articles I came across the other day said the KK victim ran to the hospital at the other side of the cemetery after she was released. I believe JCs mothers grave was on the side of the cemetery that she was attacked on, but without knowing exactly where she was attacked it is not much help. Like the Iona connection it could all just be one big coincidence.

Good luck!


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[lampformypath]

thanks, janwa.


horrifyingly, only months out of the police academy, a 22year old, policewoman rookie officer - who'd never taken a statement before - was the ONLY PERSON TO BELIEVE a young girl claiming to have escaped the monsters who'd abducted her at knifepoint and kept her housed, tormented, and raped.
the young rookie's persistent demands for her superiors to take the girl's story seriously, were what led police to crack one of Australia’s most notorious cases.
so glad vince was persuaded by his persistent rookie
...testimony to 'fresh eyes & input' making a difference!


[emoji887]

Yes BreVeTTe how incredible was that young woman who was raped and tortured but managed to have the presence of mind and amazing intelligence to note the name on Birnie's pill bottle, complete drawings of her ordeal and hide them in the hope they'd be found under the mattress, AND then to have the strength and COURAGE to make a run for her life when Ms Birnie wasn't looking, just astounding! Both these women make me so proud to be female... I am woman hear me ROAR!! Awe-and-then-some!!

 

[BReVeTTe]

http://www.news.com.au/news/vanishe...g/news-story/1f9da6564bf58fdfb6f6532c5e7b5d2f

The above article states
A year later, a white Parmelia Hilton uniform blouse was handed in to police.
The blouse was a size 14 — Ms Cutler’s size — and was one of 37 made exclusively for the hotel’s staff.
It had been found about the time Ms Cutler went missing with a pair of black pantyhose in a plastic bag under a table at the King Kebab takeaway in Centreway Arcade, Perth, a five-minute walk from the Parmelia Hilton.

thank you, nini - exact location was a fact i hadn't retained from that article.

...odd that the article mentions JC's precise disappearance and immediately goes on to say that the car was 'found weeks later' (perhaps the paragraphs became jumbled and it referred to 'weeks after' the highway stalking incident(?)
_______________

Hi All

I am sorry I keep going on about JC and the CSK - I am aware that the general consensus on this site is that JC is not related to CSK. The comments from everyone does make sense re MO in 1988 etc! I also really appreciate the reasoning behind the views!

For some reason, my instinct is telling me otherwise and I am still pursuing this in regards to CSK's first murder.

I wanted to raise the fact that the Cottesloe abduction in 1989 (I have attached the article again to refresh) occurred in the car park directly opposite the location JC's car was found. Effectively the car park overlooks the same beach the Fiat was found.

no need for sorry, spinnaker, whatever keeps JC discussion and debate alive is what counts ... and if it eventually leads to finding both the person responsible, AND her, even better.

-an inebriated girl, placed 'safely' in a parked car, taken and groped by her bristly abductor before absconding only to be further pursued -
shows the perpetrator's relentlessness/persistence

- if JC's earlier highway stalking, and/or B&E, was the work of whoever responsible for her later disappearance
it also shows perpetrator's relentlessness/persistence.

listed amongst the facts of each case
-clues at same location
-similar time frame = nothing to rule out connection between the two matters.


[emoji887]

 

[lampformypath]

Here's something to ponder, perhaps. I was thinking about BRE's arrest and the TRG going in so hard and heavy for 1 bloke when you'd think maybe 3 police cars with say 8 armed officers would be enough to arrest 1 man? Wouldn't WAPOL have to justify somehow that sort of heavilly armed team in a residential environment, by that I mean this looks to me that WAPOL had a strong idea this bloke was armed in some way from what he had done, a knife or a gun so they were quite within their rights to take a large heavilly armed team in? This seems to me to indicate BRE (if he did commit these crimes) was armed during his later attacks and actually used a weapon on his victims? Maybe I'm wrong with how I'm seeing this, but it is just ringing bells to me about what may have happened with our beautiful Claremont girls, and other poor victims.

 

[CP345]

Here's something to ponder, perhaps. I was thinking about BRE's arrest and the TRG going in so hard and heavy for 1 bloke when you'd think maybe 3 police cars with say 8 armed officers would be enough to arrest 1 man? Wouldn't WAPOL have to justify somehow that sort of heavilly armed team in a residential environment, by that I mean this looks to me that WAPOL had a strong idea this bloke was armed in some way from what he had done, a knife or a gun so they were quite within their rights to take a large heavilly armed team in? This seems to me to indicate BRE (if he did commit these crimes) was armed during his later attacks and actually used a weapon on his victims? Maybe I'm wrong with how I'm seeing this, but it is just ringing bells to me about what may have happened with our beautiful Claremont girls, and other poor victims.

I think the police always assume the worst. Better to go in with too many officers than not enough.

 

[nini83]

Yeah I noticed that - I think journalist got that wrong! But it does talk about the car battery and lights...

I find it strange the uniform was only handed to police a year after she disappeared but the article states it was found when she went missing!

Does this mean she had a kebab with someone and then disappeared or someone was trying to get rid of evidence and dumped it after they did something to her. A clear timeline of what she did isn't available like other missing persons. She was with work colleagues so if she left the nightclub at the Hilton with someone, then surely a colleague must have seen her.

If she went with colleagues for a kebab after the nightclub then why isn't this reported. The Hilton car park was in the alleyway behind the Hilton it's also access for the Valet parking so I can assume that would have been busy by 12:30 am Monday morning the club would be winding down.

All we have is she was seen in front of her car at 12:30 looking through her bag.

thank you, nini - exact location was a fact i hadn't retained from that article.

...odd that the article mentions JC's precise disappearance and immediately goes on to say that the car was 'found weeks later' (perhaps the paragraphs became jumbled and it referred to 'weeks after' the highway stalking incident(?)
_______________



[emoji887]

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[Spinnaker]

Thought I would raise Iona Presentation College, Catholic School for Girls in Mosman Park as features in all of the below:

JC – attended Iona
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=103679664

SS – Attended Iona
http://www.news.com.au/national/cla...d/news-story/21cde6933aafd13a378dd1c89aff974a

CG – Well reported she attended Iona and mother worked there

JR – Not sure if she attended

Lorrin Whitehead (attended Iona, Cottesloe Raised)
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au...s/news-story/4660796762fa08830aeaabe1a56d55fc

Would be interesting to know which school BE wives went to? (2nd wife family restaurant very close).

Has anyone else got info to add or clarify?

I have raised the Iona (well-known) connection. Maybe it is not actually Iona, but a Catholic connection as occurs throughout - It is reported that 2nd wife (practicing Catholic) and SD Catholic. Few options:

- BRE attended some type of Catholic group/ church and met the girls listed in above post and/or wife
- BRE's wife/wives had connection with Iona/ Catholic group/ Church
- BRE knew someone who was connected - perhaps had a sister who attended Iona/ Catholic group

As mentioned previously it would be good to know which school wife number 1 & wife number 2 attended and also religion of wife number 1.

Also mentioned previously - Wife number 2 family restaurant very close to Iona.

They had restaurant between 85 and 94 - http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...s/news-story/557f281e68cdf76d572843291ea9cef7

EDIT - however note that BRE met CG in [FONT=&amp]In July 2000: [/FONT]http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/claremont-serial-killings-police-piecing-together-the-life-of-bradley-robert-edwards/news-story/557f281e68cdf76d572843291ea9cef7

[FONT=&amp]Still appears to be a strong Catholic theme.

[/FONT]

 

[Look4Clues]

Apologies if this has been covered before but here's another sexual predator, basketballer ("Tiny" Pinder) charged with rape in Perth during late 1980's-1990 and with a history of previous sexual assault. I clearly remember seeing him walking around Claremont during that era.

Apart from Claremont, there's a connection to Fremantle ... and the Parmelia Hilton nightclub, where he picked up a girl and was later charged with rape. Other sexual assault convictions followed.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-...ured-fan-to-flat-and-raped-her-court-/7661776

 

[JoWa]

I think the police always assume the worst. Better to go in with too many officers than not enough.

It also looks better on the news after two decades of ineptitude


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[7SJ707]

The worst Kept secret in Australian Law enforcement circles on the East Coast is the suspected true number of victims of serial Killer Ivan Milat. (30 +). Like so many serial killers Milat started serious crime young, shooting a taxi driver when he was 17.
Progressing to what would later become his trademark rape/double abductions. Milat was caught and charged,. only to have the clown defence lawyer Marsden brilliantly win an acquittal for him- leaving Ivan free to continue on his shocking spree for the next twenty odd years, unencumbered.
When he was finally collared, the big problem for the NSW Wallopers faced, was although they could place Ivan working and travelling through the areas people had gone missing, so many years had passed that getting any sort of corroborating evidence was nigh impossible.
IMO the WAPOL bumblers face exactly the same problem with the CSK whoever he may be...a highly mobile criminal active all over the state as far back as thirty years ago....
And what was up with the all those "selfie" type snaps of Cottesloe landmarks on this thread over the weekend. ?..looks like some plodders fancy styling themselves as "The Postcard Bandit"....

 

[Spinnaker]

http://www.news.com.au/news/vanishe...g/news-story/1f9da6564bf58fdfb6f6532c5e7b5d2f

The above article states

A year later, a white Parmelia Hilton uniform blouse was handed in to police.

The blouse was a size 14 — Ms Cutler’s size — and was one of 37 made exclusively for the hotel’s staff.

It had been found about the time Ms Cutler went missing with a pair of black pantyhose in a plastic bag under a table at the King Kebab takeaway in Centreway Arcade, Perth, a five-minute walk from the Parmelia Hilton.







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Would imagine DNA testing would be able to ascertain if blouse etc belongs to JC.


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[CP345]

Apologies if this has been covered before but here's another sexual predator, basketballer ("Tiny" Pinder) charged with rape in Perth during late 1980's-1990 and with a history of previous sexual assault. I clearly remember seeing him walking around Claremont during that era.

Apart from Claremont, there's a connection to Fremantle ... and the Parmelia Hilton nightclub, where he picked up a girl and was later charged with rape. Other sexual assault convictions followed.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-...ured-fan-to-flat-and-raped-her-court-/7661776

JC was far too old for Tiny. He targeted teenagers and relied on fame to avoid being reported.

 

[Look4Clues]

Yes, I realise that and wasn't implying that he took JC or murdered anyone.

I was just pointing out that there were other rapes and sexual assaults and predators during that period and around the area. It wasn't a particularly safe time for women and yet we weren't on high safety alert. We even used to leave our purses on the bar, unattended when we got up to dance at Julianna's nightclub at the Parmelia. Unheard of these days.

It was also a very exciting time to be in Perth. We had won the America's Cup and had defended it earlier off Fremantle - which had money from property developers pouring in to upgrade. It also attracted extremely well heeled, overseas tourists/visitors. It was the place to be seen in Australia. There was a property boom and it was Bi-Centenary Year when Princess Diana visited Australia and never ending celebrations. I doubt that the Parmelia Hilton would have wanted bad publicity during a tourist boom.

JC was far too old for Tiny. He targeted teenagers and relied on fame to avoid being reported.

 

[7SJ707]

Another Aussie Monster who started young was" Captain Bathtub". Ashley Coulston. In 1971 he stalked two teachers for a fortnight before abducting them using a rifle and forcing them to drive towards Sydney before they managed to alert a truck driver and escape.
Coulston was 14 years old.
21 years later he brutally executed 3 innocent young people in the Melbourne "housemate wanted" triple slaying
Also suspected of many other rapes/ killings across Victoria, NSW and Queensland but difficult to prove due to the time elapsed before he came onto the radar .
These guys start young.....Jeffrey Dammer, killed a hitchhiker when just17 years of age, ...Ted Bundy stronglysuspected of killing eight year old girl infatuated with him when he was a 14 year old paperboy.......

 

[b4u]

And what was up with the all those "selfie" type snaps of Cottesloe landmarks on this thread over the weekend. ?..looks like some plodders fancy styling themselves as "The Postcard Bandit"....

The only Postcard Bandit I am aware of is one who was a convicted Australian bank robber and is reported to have stolen and hidden millions of dollars.

I hardly call the grass at Cottesloe, a "Landmark".

Grasshoppers taking selfies? :thinking:

 

[7SJ707]

Ooh bit nasty; "Poor Ned" by Redgum comes to mind.

 

[CP345]

The only Postcard Bandit I am aware of is one who was a convicted Australian bank robber and is reported to have stolen and hidden millions of dollars.

I hardly call the grass at Cottesloe, a "Landmark".

Grasshoppers taking selfies? :thinking:

I think people were just trying to show the area where JCs car was found. The same guy was in some of the photos but I'm sure it wasn't about him. His face was obscured out so he couldn't be identified. I guess if it was your brother or close mate you might recognise him but all in all I think it was okay.