Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #16

[Innerchild]

Innerchild this copy of the photo is much better than ive ever seen before .
Why have you been holding out for so long this is amazing ?!
Will edit it for clarity
.

Thanks metic, I have posted this image before. Eventually I got time to go to Baytte Lib and access the news paper articles no name found. I find it difficult to take clear photos though.

 

[meticulously]

rsbm

Waves were minnows as you can see in the background. No rips, perhaps an inshore gutter but it wouldn't move a one ton car, that would have been heavier as it filled with water. Rsbm

quote IC : "Waves were minnows as you can see in the background. No rips, perhaps an inshore gutter but it wouldn't move a one ton car, that would have been heavier as it filled with water." UnQuote.

The waves aren't big in the photo but this photo was on the 22nd june .

The waves were big over 48hrs before this photo was taken . JC disappeared 20th
~ 12.30am , thats over 48hrs of time frame .

The waves were substantially bigger on the morning of 20th june.
( Can provide link )

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13393776


Post #926
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13393864

 

[Innerchild]

What are you talking about? Who mentioned bodies? The new poster with the number eight theory was talking about the dates that the women went missing. You are confused.

I don't think so. The Derailment_Train mentioned bodies to try to justify the significance of the number 8.

Quote D_Train: From where Jane Rimmer was found to where Ciara Glennon was found, from point to point is 80kms (which runs through Bay View Terrace).

IMO there is more significance that b4u pointed out between you using a MOO and 8 maids are milking.

I'm open to moon phases being the same, long weekends or holiday weekends, spatial body positioning as being significant or other theories, but sorry you and the D train are deliberately derailing here IMO.

 

[Innerchild]

quote IC : "Waves were minnows as you can see in the background. No rips, perhaps an inshore gutter but it wouldn't move a one ton car, that would have been heavier as it filled with water." UnQuote.

The waves aren't big in the photo but this photo was on the 22nd june .

The waves were big over 48hrs before this photo was taken . JC disappeared 20th
~ 12.30am , thats over 48hrs of time frame .

The waves were substantially bigger on the morning of 20th june.
( Can provide link )

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13393776
#931

Car was only in water a matter of hours, forensic tests done on battery, light on. It was found under a light post, by early morning beach goers. Cott beach even in winter has swimmers every morning, runners, fisherman, cars going past on Marine Parade, paid beach ranger / lifeguard (or whatever name was then).

Back seat was found two days earlier (Monday afternoon), just on south side of groyne by beach walkers. This indicates to me, it was removed and thrown off groyne on the night or early morning JC went missing. It ended up not far south of groyne with prevalent waves and drift. Even in the stormy weather conditions your're suggesting on the Monday 20th, in winter people were walking along the beach and found the back seat washed up on sand.

IMO the car went in the ocean just a couple of hours before it was found early Wednesday morning, on the Tuesday night. With the damage to the car, which I think occurred away from the ocean, it could have easily been disposed of anywhere else relatively easy, but it ended up at Cott, extremely hard to explain!

 

[crabstick]

Back seat was found two days earlier(Monday afternoon), just on south side of groyne by beach walkers.

We need Cutlers flat address. I wonder if flat has new information now.
Fremantle can be down the road from Glyde st on Stirling highway
You can see Cot groyne and how close Freo is.

 

[petedavo.au]

When I was a kid at Bullsbrook, The RAAF put on a couple of airshows and each time they did this to a car.
https://youtu.be/KgAezwLq3wc
I believe the RAAF retired A2-384 in June 1985 and replaced old D model Huey with a Squirrel, so they stopped dropping cars for fun.
The SASR down at Swanbourne on the other hand a bunch of H model Huey's, one of them, A2-485 was given to Merredin Aviation museum in 2014
http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/3a2.htm

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[Spooks-R-Us]

Car was only in water a matter of hours, forensic tests done on battery, light on. It was found under a light post, by early morning beach goers. Cott beach even in winter has swimmers every morning, runners, fisherman, cars going past on Marine Parade, paid beach ranger / lifeguard (or whatever name was then).

Back seat was found two days earlier (Monday afternoon), just on south side of groyne by beach walkers. This indicates to me, it was removed and thrown off groyne on the night or early morning JC went missing. It ended up not far south of groyne with prevalent waves and drift. Even in the stormy weather conditions your're suggesting on the Monday 20th, in winter people were walking along the beach and found the back seat washed up on sand.

IMO the car went in the ocean just a couple of hours before it was found early Wednesday morning, on the Tuesday night. With the damage to the car, which I think occurred away from the ocean, it could have easily been disposed of anywhere else relatively easy, but it ended up at Cott, extremely hard to explain!

Oh yeh because who ever wanted to get rid of the car, threw the back seat into the ocean two days earlier, while hiding the car for a couple days, and THEN disposing of the car on the Wednesday morning to confuse everyone!
Makes total sense – NOT!

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

It does appear like its been driven off a cliff, but that wouldn't come close to causing the damage that occurred. I'm confident in my calculations (even if they were 20 -30% out) that it would have taken a force around three times (300%) that of being dropped of a cliff to get that damage. It could have been dropped out of an airplane (F = ma, F = 1150 x 9.8, F = 11,270 Newtons) and in comparing with the controlled experiment and it wouldn't have come close to that damage (est 30,000N). That's hard to get your head around!

Did your calculations account for the repeated crashing of the car by waves onto a sand bank ?
OR did you only calculate a one time impact???
IMO a one time impact wouldn't totally crush roof.
BUT REPEATED IMPACT would eventually crush roof to point you see in the picture.

 

[petedavo.au]

quote IC : "Waves were minnows as you can see in the background. No rips, perhaps an inshore gutter but it wouldn't move a one ton car, that would have been heavier as it filled with water." UnQuote.

The waves aren't big in the photo but this photo was on the 22nd june .

The waves were big over 48hrs before this photo was taken . JC disappeared 20th
~ 12.30am , thats over 48hrs of time frame .

The waves were substantially bigger on the morning of 20th june.
( Can provide link )

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13393776


Post #926
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13393864

This is the simplest explanation for the damage. Any other theory is complicated by the need for a tow truck , or helicopter and a crew to retrieve any slings or chains at night from the vehicle once it was in the ocean.

IMO, the most likely explanation for her disappearance is that she went home then went out again later to Cottesloe. On a spur of the moment whim decided to drive her car down the ramp outside the changerooms and ditch her car, so she could ask daddy for a new one. Whilst climbing out the window a king wave rolled the car and dragged it and her out in it's rip, thus she died by accident, not by her or anyone else's design.

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[Spooks-R-Us]

Where is your evidence for that?

In one of the control videos I analysed exactly the same age, make and model car being hit by a train around 50km/hr and dragged 800 m producing a force around twice the amount needed for JC car damage. However although the car was dramatically crushed the pillars survived intact to the roof and straight. The roof pillars were basically indestructible.

In the control video was the impact from the train from the side-on? or front-on? Yes?


In the case OF JC's car -
Roof pillars would not be indestructible and would eventually collapse if these two factors were at play:
1. the impact was directly on the roof
AND
2. the impact repeated over and over again like the motion of waves.

 

[janwa]

This is the simplest explanation for the damage. Any other theory is complicated by the need for a tow truck , or helicopter and a crew to retrieve any slings or chains at night from the vehicle once it was in the ocean.

IMO, the most likely explanation for her disappearance is that she went home then went out again later to Cottesloe. On a spur of the moment whim decided to drive her car down the ramp outside the changerooms and ditch her car, so she could ask daddy for a new one. Whilst climbing out the window a king wave rolled the car and dragged it and her out in it's rip, thus she died by accident, not by her or anyone else's design.

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Interesting and simple which often turns out to be the answer.

Although personally I think JC was abducted, the car dumped then moved further into the surf by some unconnected drunks who happened along by chance after.

Could have been the same person/people involved in the SM case. No I am not convinced it was Greer, how was she buried on top of pipes that had not been manufactured until years after she went missing, plus another case of foreign flora where have we heard that before? and the opinion of an acquaintance of mine who was in prison with him. http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/new-bid-to-overturn-mason-murder-verdict-20110303-1bft4.html

 

[crabstick]

I think Cutler abducted after the staff hospitality cutlerly party, had been possibly swapped to another car at Cottesloe carpark.

Her car was then driven onto beach or off cliff by someone who let tyres down into water where for 2 days wave motion with car filled water and wave filled in car adding weight and force consistently banging car in seabed over and over did the damage.

Julie was then taken after shifted to another car to somewhere else where she was murdered.
My only alternate to driven, is tilt tray tow truck but thats a long bow. Note, soon as any car hits water, lights come on, more so in salt.

I think there is some relevance to where the car was dumped, although the seat on south side groyne, car could have started south Cot.
Im placing my bet. I think CSK is connected with the crime in some way.

 

[petedavo.au]

I think Cutler abducted after the staff hospitality cutlerly party, had been possibly swapped to another car at Cottesloe carpark.

Her car was then driven onto beach or off cliff by someone who let tyres down into water where for 2 days wave motion with car filled water and wave filled in car adding weight and force consistently banging car in seabed over and over did the damage.

Julie was then taken after shifted to another car to somewhere else where she was murdered.
My only alternate to driven, is tilt tray tow truck but thats a long bow. Note, soon as any car hits water, lights come on, more so in salt.

I think there is some relevance to where the car was dumped, although the seat on south side groyne, car could have started south Cot.
Im placing my bet. I think CSK is connected with the crime in some way.

Fremantle has a problem with parking, whilst there are anecdotal stories of neighbour disputes with parking bays that can get heated in Fremantle, I found nothing in relation to Julie Cutler specifically, although it'd be easier to sleuth if we knew exactly where in Fremantle she was living.
Likewise I found nothing to suggest that her break in is related to any violent crimes or rapists at the time. Again it would be easier to sleuth this if we knew where she lived.
Fremantle Gazette and Fremantle Herald might be the only online sources though, otherwise a trip to SLWA would be needed.
Likewise for the road stalker, there's a dearth of stories from anyone else reporting similar events, which I'd expect.
The uncanny resemblance to the 1986 recruit road rage story suggests to me that she had an old newspaper at home and used it as the basis of her reports. Likewise, police would've thoroughly followed up ex boyfriends, work colleagues and anyone else associated with her. We would of heard more if any of them were in anyway suspect.
I think the police statement suggesting foul play was too early and not based upon any evidence, but simply an opinion. Without her address and the names of her boyfriend, flatmate or other associates it'd be difficult to sleuth anything to support a foul play scenario. The only one sleuthers could sleuth is the 1986 story due to the similarities to what Cutler's family say that she told them about the incident on Stirling Hwy.

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[Pandit]

Where is your evidence for that?

In one of the control videos I analysed exactly the same age, make and model car being hit by a train around 50km/hr and dragged 800 m producing a force around twice the amount needed for JC car damage. However although the car was dramatically crushed the pillars survived intact to the roof and straight. The roof pillars were basically indestructible.

To demonstrate how easy it is to stress and weaken the pillars of a car merely by jumping on the roof.

The front or back window of Julie's car would have broken almost immediately. On metal sliders not bolted in, the Fiat seat would have easily been dislodged, begun to float and wriggle to find it's way out, through the window. Easily done, and likely within minutes.

https://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/cctv-catches-man-throwing-himself-onto-car-in-loop/3065509/

 

[Mo Joe]

We can't rule out that JC may have been taken to a Telephone Exchange in the area? Perhaps Cottesloe or Hilton?

 

[Mo Joe]

The Fremantle Cemetery has five entrances and looks quite isolated on two sides.

 

[petedavo.au]

Some food for thought regarding Julie Cutler's disappearance in the lady who was abducted outside the Sheraton Hotel in Perth and left at Centenary Avenue Wilson near the Riverton Bridge. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335464

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[Canning Vale]

To demonstrate how easy it is to stress and weaken the pillars of a car merely by jumping on the roof.

The front or back window of Julie's car would have broken almost immediately. On metal sliders not bolted in, the Fiat seat would have easily been dislodged, begun to float and wriggle to find it's way out, through the window. Easily done, and likely within minutes.

https://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/cctv-catches-man-throwing-himself-onto-car-in-loop/3065509/

Pandit,

Good post. I don't know, but I can't imagine the back seat working it's way out of a window. Perhaps it could float out of a door because the door's wider. If the seat was lightweight, it would certainly float further away from the car. Some of the older cars took a bit of force to pull the back seat out.

 

[Mo Joe]

Some food for thought regarding Julie Cutler's disappearance in the lady who was abducted outside the Sheraton Hotel in Perth and left at Centenary Avenue Wilson near the Riverton Bridge. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335464

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Mind blowing! The word WILSON is appearing everywhere today! Even randomly popped up when I was google mapping! Then you post Wilson! Very weird!
Wilson Wilson Wilson... perhaps we should be taking note!

 

[petedavo.au]

To demonstrate how easy it is to stress and weaken the pillars of a car merely by jumping on the roof.

The front or back window of Julie's car would have broken almost immediately. On metal sliders not bolted in, the Fiat seat would have easily been dislodged, begun to float and wriggle to find it's way out, through the window. Easily done, and likely within minutes.

https://www.dailymercury.com.au/news/cctv-catches-man-throwing-himself-onto-car-in-loop/3065509/

Pandit,

Good post. I don't know, but I can't imagine the back seat working it's way out of a window. Perhaps it could float out of a door because the door's wider. If the seat was lightweight, it would certainly float further away from the car. Some of the older cars took a bit of force to pull the back seat out.

IMO the back seat was probably dislodged and thrown from the car out of the open drivers door when a king wave rolled the car over initially

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