Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #16

[Pandit]

Pandit,

Good post. I don't know, but I can't imagine the back seat working it's way out of a window. Perhaps it could float out of a door because the door's wider. If the seat was lightweight, it would certainly float further away from the car. Some of the older cars took a bit of force to pull the back seat out.

Hi Canning Vale, It was my understanding that only the drivers door was open which would mean there were front seat obstacles to get past so working it's way out lengthways first through the broken rear window, which is quite big and squarish on the older Fiat's was how I envisioned it's exit. Julie's Fiat likely had the standard bench seat in the rear, separate from the back rests.

Not to suggest though that Julie wasn't a victim of foul play because imo I think it likely that she was.

 

[Annalise]

Does anyone think Julie Cutler was already deceased when the car was pushed or driven into the ocean? Was her body in the car? If so is it possible the body wouldn't wash up. MOO

 

[Canning Vale]

I think Cutler abducted after the staff hospitality cutlerly party, had been possibly swapped to another car at Cottesloe carpark.

Her car was then driven onto beach or off cliff by someone who let tyres down into water where for 2 days wave motion with car filled water and wave filled in car adding weight and force consistently banging car in seabed over and over did the damage.

Julie was then taken after shifted to another car to somewhere else where she was murdered.
My only alternate to driven, is tilt tray tow truck but thats a long bow. Note, soon as any car hits water, lights come on, more so in salt.

I think there is some relevance to where the car was dumped, although the seat on south side groyne, car could have started south Cot.
Im placing my bet. I think CSK is connected with the crime in some way.

The day JC disappeared she was considered fit and well enough to go to work and go to the work function. The story is very strange. There's the other incident whereby the car was burnt. The one where Deborah Anderson had possibly driven to Geraldton. The Deborah Anderson and Julie Cutler stories are the only two incidents involving damage to cars, which I can think of.
Here's that link... http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/fresh-attempt-at-solving-coldcase-20110816-1ivpr.html

 

[petedavo.au]

Does anyone think Julie Cutler was already deceased when the car was pushed or driven into the ocean? Was her body in the car? If so is it possible the body wouldn't wash up. MOO

IMO police were making an assumption that anything from the car would wash up nearby it. The back seat being buoyant certainly didn't, which to me means that it was washed out to sea quite a distance before coming back into shore, probably because of the usual change of wind direction which occurs on the west coast between night and day. Being light and mostly above water, I imagine that although the back seat travelled further, it also returned to shore quicker. It might've gone out kilometres before coming back in, hence why it was found at another beach, south of the groyne. IMO Julie was alive when she left the car, and for the same reason being buoyant was also dragged out further from the shore than the car, however she might've drowned and sank, and been eaten by the great white sharks that predate that area in winter. Her handbag probably eventually got waterlogged and sank remaining on the bottom to this day far out from shore.
The car must've rolled when it initially entered the water because of a king wave. This would caught Julie by surprise buggering up her plans of wading to shore, jumping on a bus back home and ringing up her folks, police and insurance company to claim it was stolen.
Many people and boats have been lost to king waves in WA. The damage to the car and the loss of anyone on board as well as the back seat being found in another location all fits a king wave scenario, disrupting a bit of old fashioned insurance fraud. IMO.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[crabstick]

So a divorce happens but no one knows what might be the driver for the divorce.

When they move in together, child is a couple of years old.

When second divorce happens, youngen stays behind with father?

Is the child his biological child?

Media have said they no idea when relationship actually started.

Crabstick: Meanwhile the French restaurant is 400 metres from Iona next door carpark Mason body found.

The child of second wife could be genetically his. Note, stayed living with him post CG departure.

If so, would be indicitive of extra marital affair while crimes were occuring.

Allegedly, sister inlaw of potential extra marital girlfriend, is police psychologist.

Restaurant on Stirling highway and Glyde st
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-1996-1997-Perth-Western-Australia-15/page155

Claremont serial killings: Police piecing together the life of BRE
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...s/news-story/557f281e68cdf76d572843291ea9cef7

 

[crabstick]

Being mindful Sarah Spiers booked a cab going to Mosman Park

Being mindful that Ciara Glennon was going to Mosman Park to parents..

Being mindful Jane Rimmer....

*I have to check. Jane had a flat in Mosman Park I think.

 

[crabstick]

Pamela Lawrence had a business next to flats and Pams shop looked across at the laneway at rear of French restaurant where the cars parked.

Pam Lawrence would see Iona students come straight up from Iona on Glyde st for a number of reasons.

And anything that might happen in the area.

Her first alledged murderer was freed and second alledged murderer dead before he could say anything about this 'motiveless' crime.

 

[Canning Vale]

So a divorce happens but no one knows what might be the driver for the divorce.

When they move in together, child is a couple of years old.

When second divorce happens, youngen stays behind with father?

Is the child his biological child?

Media have said they no idea when relationship actually started.

Crabstick: Meanwhile the French restaurant is 400 metres from Iona next door carpark Mason body found.

The child of second wife could be genetically his. Note, stayed living with him post CG departure.

If so, would be indicitive of extra marital affair while crimes were occuring.

Allegedly, sister inlaw of potential extra marital girlfriend, is police psychologist.

Restaurant on Stirling highway and Glyde st
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-1996-1997-Perth-Western-Australia-15/page155

Claremont serial killings: Police piecing together the life of BRE
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...s/news-story/557f281e68cdf76d572843291ea9cef7

A while ago we discussed some theories as to why BRE didn't father any children with the first wife or second de-facto wife. Though it does seem he genuinely likes children because he spent a lot of donated time at BLAs. For whatever reason he doesn’t appear to have any children to the marriages Link to male infertility. I’ve wondered if that’s perhaps one of the reasons why the first marriage broke up.

Perhaps when BRE and the second wife (CGE) parted company the step-daughter (V) remained with BRE because she got along better with him. Perhaps BRE was less-strict. It would appear that CGE didn’t see BRE as a threat.

These are only my thoughts and opinion.

 

[Canning Vale]

Being mindful Sarah Spiers booked a cab going to Mosman Park

Being mindful that Ciara Glennon was going to Mosman Park to parents..

Being mindful Jane Rimmer....

*I have to check. Jane had a flat in Mosman Park I think.

SS and CG both went missing after spending a Friday night out.
JR went missing after spending a Saturday night out.

There was something different about JRs disappearance.

 

[crabstick]

Im sure I read that BRE was tasked little athletics as means of him getting out in the sun.
In the photo with CG he seems rather pale n hefty. Could be a number of reasons.

Maybe he thought he was sterile until a second relationship and CG fell pregnant.
<modsnip - to comply with Australian law>

CG is french in the restaurant game.

Its kind of been the general theme around this crime.

Rimmer in child care. Is that how he knew Jane? The company looked after CG child?

#law #childcare #iona #restaurant #french #celtic #fleurdelis

 

[Canning Vale]

Pamela Lawrence had a business next to flats and Pams shop looked across at the laneway at rear of French restaurant where the cars parked.

Pam Lawrence would see Iona students come straight up from Iona on Glyde st for a number of reasons.

And anything that might happen in the area.

Her first alledged murderer was freed and second alledged murderer dead before he could say anything about this 'motiveless' crime.

The distance from Bay View Tce Claremont to Glyde St Mosman Park is about 4kms

Pamela Lawrence was killed 23 May 1994 and the French Restaurant closed in June 1994.

Link to Andrew Mallard story regarding wrongful murder of Pamela Lawrence (jeweller)http://www.watoday.com.au

Ms Geneste&#8217;s family were from Kewdale but were familiar with the affluent western suburbs. They operated a popular French restaurant La Petite Cabine at 616 Stirling Highway in Mosman Park between 1985 and June 1994. http://www.perthnow.com.au

I&#8217;m not suggesting there is any connection just noting the timeline.

 

[Twist]

Stop with the car crap, everyone is rehashing previous views and ideas, read back and find it all, this is all about chest beating, everyone's made their mind up about the car. Nothing new shut the **** up and move on to new ****

 

[crabstick]

The distance from Bay View Tce Claremont to Glyde St Mosman Park is about 4kms

Pamela Lawrence was killed 23 May 1994 and the French Restaurant closed in June 1994.

Link to Andrew Mallard story regarding wrongful murder of Pamela Lawrence (jeweller)http://www.watoday.com.au

Ms Geneste&#8217;s family were from Kewdale but were familiar with the affluent western suburbs. They operated a popular French restaurant La Petite Cabine at 616 Stirling Highway in Mosman Park between 1985 and June 1994. http://www.perthnow.com.au

I&#8217;m not suggesting there is any connection just noting the timeline.

Thats a well noted timeline.

It helps with the possibility the accused may have used the rear area of the shop as a possible second base.
Seeing as the considered main 3 victims were going to Mosman Park.

We dont know if there was an earlier relationship, especially CG coming from Kewdale next door to BRE neighbourhood.
They may have been highschool mates etc.
Even the media dont know what the prior relationship there may have been, even if it boiled down to prior obsessive stalking years prior.
#trinity #shamrock

 

[Innerchild]

Did your calculations account for the repeated crashing of the car by waves onto a sand bank ?
OR did you only calculate a one time impact???
IMO a one time impact wouldn't totally crush roof.
BUT REPEATED IMPACT would eventually crush roof to point you see in the picture.

Are you shouting at me with all your capitals Spooks? Is that necessary?

I have video clips of a car in the high impact wave zone (remember force is being applied to front of car and not roof as well) for 2 hours with no damage and car after being underwater with no damage. I've calculated repeated forces applied directly to roof of car by waves onto rocks, when the car would have had to be lifted one metre into air and dropped 30 to 40 times on its roof to get close to the damage that occurred.

Your scenario of waves onto a sand bar, is not going to cause that damage. You couldn't generate the acceleration needed to produce the force to cause that damage IMO. The car underwater weigh possibly two tons and the waves would not be moving that car and accelerating it (not just moving it a constant speed).

Fiat has a buoyancy factor of 10 (imagine getting a 100kg person to hold an extra 700kg and see how far they move underwater or how long they would float to get an idea of that buoyancy factor) and likely to sink very close to where it went into water.

The control video where exact forces can be calculated and compared to damage that occurred in controlled crash experiments is very helpful in determining forces and correlating to damage that occurred within limits of error.

And of course the back seat was found two days before the car entered the water from the evidence. Back seat would have contained possible evidence if JC was abducted, especially if the man and woman that Katich was looking for were responsible. The woman driving and the man subduing JC in the back seat. However there is is no logical explanation for how this happened.

Only that it did and that it seemed to be very important to someone that JC's car ended up in the ocean at Cottesloe Beach.

 

[Innerchild]

Being mindful Sarah Spiers booked a cab going to Mosman Park

Being mindful that Ciara Glennon was going to Mosman Park to parents..

Being mindful Jane Rimmer....

*I have to check. Jane had a flat in Mosman Park I think.

No she had a flat in Wembley. Didn't Mallard live somewhere in flats in Mosman park and he was trying to impress one of the girls he was staying with by stealing the challis from Iona? Good way to set him up and make him look suspect for cops.

 

[SherlockSleuth]

Even the media dont know what the prior relationship there may have been, even if it boiled down to prior obsessive stalking years prior.

It's possible, perhaps even probable, that they know more than they're reporting at this point in time. With all their contacts and tentacles reaching far n wide in a small town like Perth, they'd know plenty I reckon. My guess is that they've been asked to not say too much, as Police don't want to jeopardise a trial. It really seems that outside a small handful of electronic 'chats' like this one, no one's saying much. But I don't think that means they don't know bits and pieces.

 

[crabstick]

No she had a flat in Wembley. Didn't Mallard live somewhere in flats in Mosman park and he was trying to impress one of the girls he was staying with by stealing the challis from Iona? Good way to set him up and make him look suspect for cops.

Yes, he was sleeping on the couch in a girls flat who had a fascination with celtic drawing.

Mallard stole the chalice from Iona church then tried to return the chalice posing as a detective.

Interesting SS flat in Wembly. There is mention a flat in Mosman park maybe Wellington st.
Not sayin SS flat.

 

[Innerchild]

We dont know if there was an earlier relationship, especially CG coming from Kewdale next door to BRE neighbourhood.
They may have been highschool mates etc.
Even the media dont know what the prior relationship there may have been, even if it boiled down to prior obsessive stalking years prior.
#trinity #shamrock

Have you had a look on Google maps? Kewdale (where the Genese family lived during CGE secondary school years) is no where near Huntingdale (BRE attending Gosnells HS)

Also its likely CGE attend a Catholic secondary school Mercedes or Iona being most likely, although no information has been found to confirm IMO. You can't keep repeating the thought bubble that they might have met through high school. I do agree with the information you provided that it is unclear when the relationship started and I wouldn't be surprised if it was before 1998 either.

Don't know what the hash tags are about but while you're looking on Google maps try hovering over Bay View Tce in Claremont and zoom in. Every time Iona Presentation Convent appears on the corner of Bay View Tce and St Quentin Ave. How does that happen?

 

[Mo Joe]

Maybe some feral kids ripped the back seat out of the car so that they could sit on it around a fire?

 

[Innerchild]

Yes, he was sleeping on the couch in a girls flat who had a fascination with celtic drawing.

Mallard stole the chalice from Iona church then tried to return the chalice posing as a detective.

Interesting SS flat in Wembly. There is mention a flat in Mosman park maybe Wellington st.
Not sayin SS flat.

Sorry, you may have misunderstood. I am having trouble typing as computer is very slow tonight. I believe Jane Rimmer had a flat in Wembley.

SS and her sister lived in an apartment in South Perth that their family owned. However, it showed on the documentary that SS called for a taxi to Mosman Park. I&#8217;m not sure if this was accurate and no name is questioning whether it was to South Perth.

The previous poster Bartholomew suggested he had knowledge that SS had just stated a relationship with someone who lived in Wellington St Mosman Park.