Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #16

[Annalise]

CG is the one that stumps me. By what people have stated on here in earlier threads she would never have got into the car with a stranger. There is no log of her calling for a taxi and she was walking. Was she planning on hitch hiking home. Perhaps after travelling for a period of time she was confident with trusting people she didnt know. Even if the accused met her prior through some law event with his ex how would you even come to that conversation and stop the car in the middle of the night 'Hey i recognized you we met at so and so' that even sounds creepy. I just don't know and she left the venue earlier than her other colleagues because she was tired she had another lift on offer but she didnt want to stay on. Surely she would have heard through other people even colleagues about the previous 2 missing girls. It was massive news and I'm sure it must of come up in passing conversation as they were at the establishment the others were last seen. I don't understand it.

Hi Questions 123 - I agree - if she was tired why walk home when she was offered a lift! Could she have been meeting someone too? MOO

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

What night of the week was the KK rape?
Do we know what nights the other incidences in Claremont (e.g. Woman jumping from taxi and breaking ankle; woman attacked in laneway with skirt torn off etc) occurred?

Excuse my laziness in not looking these up myself, hoping someone knows and can answer easily!

I have them written down in my spooky notebook. Remind me tomorrow to have a look please.

 

[crabstick]

We dont know what CG was doing after 94 for work.
There could be any number of reasons.
BRE was still married when child was born. Maybe any of the party wanted anyone know thst a child had been conceived while in an existing marriage.
Any number of complexities that might set off a killing spree.
Psychopaths dont tend to be overly considerate of other peoples consequences of their actions.

We will have to see how relationships panned out.
When the child stayed with BRE, it reinforces the possibility the child be his bio.
Telling your wife who is in the legal game you have been havin some fries on the side and mistress doesnt know you are married doesnt bode well for smooth divorce.

The restaurant being closed in 1994 means that it was not likely someone would want to pick up a child from an out of the way location. JMO.

 

[crabstick]

I think all the girls took a lift to Mosman park.
I think there is a pre existing introduction of some form there.

 

[janwa]

CG is the one that stumps me. By what people have stated on here in earlier threads she would never have got into the car with a stranger. There is no log of her calling for a taxi and she was walking. Was she planning on hitch hiking home. Perhaps after travelling for a period of time she was confident with trusting people she didnt know. Even if the accused met her prior through some law event with his ex how would you even come to that conversation and stop the car in the middle of the night 'Hey i recognized you we met at so and so' that even sounds creepy. I just don't know and she left the venue earlier than her other colleagues because she was tired she had another lift on offer but she didnt want to stay on. Surely she would have heard through other people even colleagues about the previous 2 missing girls. It was massive news and I'm sure it must of come up in passing conversation as they were at the establishment the others were last seen. I don't understand it.

It does seem illogical that otherwise seemingly sensible young women would hitch or take lifts from strangers if indeed that was the case. An alternative hypothetical scenario bearing in mind the risk taking culture i.e. binge drinking and drugs, could have been a factor. Especially the so called 'hug drugs' that would make a person over friendly towards complete strangers and believe everybody was trustworthy.

https://mic.com/articles/64559/molly-adam-mdma-same-drug-different-name#.mktICJVyI

These drugs originated in the US and were on the streets here 10 yrs later. A favorite here in the mid 90s was called ADAM

 

[Zedx]

IMO police were making an assumption that anything from the car would wash up nearby it. The back seat being buoyant certainly didn't, which to me means that it was washed out to sea quite a distance before coming back into shore, probably because of the usual change of wind direction which occurs on the west coast between night and day. Being light and mostly above water, I imagine that although the back seat travelled further, it also returned to shore quicker. It might've gone out kilometres before coming back in, hence why it was found at another beach, south of the groyne. IMO Julie was alive when she left the car, and for the same reason being buoyant was also dragged out further from the shore than the car, however she might've drowned and sank, and been eaten by the great white sharks that predate that area in winter. Her handbag probably eventually got waterlogged and sank remaining on the bottom to this day far out from shore.
The car must've rolled when it initially entered the water because of a king wave. This would caught Julie by surprise buggering up her plans of wading to shore, jumping on a bus back home and ringing up her folks, police and insurance company to claim it was stolen.
Many people and boats have been lost to king waves in WA. The damage to the car and the loss of anyone on board as well as the back seat being found in another location all fits a king wave scenario, disrupting a bit of old fashioned insurance fraud. IMO.

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PD- i agree with most of what you say and I think the fact that the ignition was on and the lights were on (IMO I think they mean both were in the on position) means the motor was running at the time it went into the water (ie: being driven) and that the drivers door was open and flapping, could mean some one got out/ attempted to get out of the car before/as it went into the water. It would be very interesting to know what gear the car was in, when it was found. As for Julies wallet being found at home, I believe it means either
!- She left it at home, only taking the cash she needed. I had my purse stolen once and because of the difficulty of trying to replace cards etc, depending on where i was going I quite often left my purse home, only taking exactly what I needed with me. But as her home had been broken into recently I'm not sure she would have done that.
2. She forgot it.
3. She came home.
What I want to know is how did her uniform come to be at the kebab shop? And wasn't it only the blouse? Where is the skirt? And was it still in the white plastic bag? Maybe she met some one there after the staff party, shoved her bag under the table and forgot about it when she left? Possibly with the person she met at the kebab shop? Seems too bizarre for some one else to take it back to a shop near where she works and dispose of it under the table?MOO

 

[Zedx]

IMO if BRE is the one, he is a gamer and would be very into making this a game. Be it inclusive of
Numbers
Names
Lines
Degrees
Seasons
Moons etc

 

[crabstick]

BRE had a definite interest in GPS (Global Position Systems)

The website he had registered his interest in GPS was a website that had developed GPS tracking software which could track any with a radio device.

Military had adopted the early tracking software.

IMO if BRE is the one, he is a gamer and would be very into making this a game. Be it inclusive of
Numbers
Names
Lines
Degrees
Seasons
Moons etc

 

[crabstick]

PD- i agree with most of what you say and I think the fact that the ignition was on and the lights were on (IMO I think they mean both were in the on position) means the motor was running at the time it went into the water (ie: being driven) and that the drivers door was open and flapping, could mean some one got out/ attempted to get out of the car before/as it went into the water. It would be very interesting to know what gear the car was in, when it was found. As for Julies wallet being found at home, I believe it means eith
What I want to know is how did her uniform come to be at the kebab shop? And wasn't it only the blouse? Where is the skirt? And was it still in the white plastic bag? Maybe she met some one there after the staff party, shoved her bag under the table and forgot about it when she left? Possibly with the person she met at the kebab shop? Seems too bizarre for some one else to take it back to a shop near where she works and dispose of it under the table?MOO

Cutler had changed from her uniform into a ball gown for the Parmelia Hotel staff party.
The hotel Cutler worked at.

The bag was probably removed from the car and left at Kings Kebabs in some sort of delusional murderers clue to Cutlers where abouts etc.

Corryn Rayney ended up in Kings Park

1988 was bicentennial celebrations of Australia

 

[petedavo.au]

PD- i agree with most of what you say and I think the fact that the ignition was on and the lights were on (IMO I think they mean both were in the on position) means the motor was running at the time it went into the water (ie: being driven) and that the drivers door was open and flapping, could mean some one got out/ attempted to get out of the car before/as it went into the water. It would be very interesting to know what gear the car was in, when it was found. As for Julies wallet being found at home, I believe it means either
!- She left it at home, only taking the cash she needed. I had my purse stolen once and because of the difficulty of trying to replace cards etc, depending on where i was going I quite often left my purse home, only taking exactly what I needed with me. But as her home had been broken into recently I'm not sure she would have done that.
2. She forgot it.
3. She came home.
What I want to know is how did her uniform come to be at the kebab shop? And wasn't it only the blouse? Where is the skirt? And was it still in the white plastic bag? Maybe she met some one there after the staff party, shoved her bag under the table and forgot about it when she left? Possibly with the person she met at the kebab shop? Seems too bizarre for some one else to take it back to a shop near where she works and dispose of it under the table?MOO

The bag of clothes irks me too. I've been mulling that since it was first reported years ago, and thus believed it was because of foul play for a long time.
But
It's not been established that it's her's, nor if it was from the same night.
Another possibility is that someone did find it at the beach and decided to purloin it, then dumped it in the city after taking what they wanted.
I assume that examination has turned up nothing of evidence value, which itself is perplexing, unless Julie herself dumped it.
Someone on the previous tread said staff were handed a clean uniform in such bags all the time, so the uniform itself belongs to the hotel and is laundered by the hotel. Staff simply leave their worn uniform and pick up a new bag each shift. Therefore this could be from a previous bag prior to the night in question anyway.

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[Spooks-R-Us]

The bag of clothes irks me too. I've been mulling that since it was first reported years ago, and thus believed it was because of foul play for a long time.
But
It's not been established that it's her's, nor if it was from the same night.
Another possibility is that someone did find it at the beach and decided to purloin it, then dumped it in the city after taking what they wanted.
I assume that examination has turned up nothing of evidence value, which itself is perplexing, unless Julie herself dumped it.
Someone on the previous tread said staff were handed a clean uniform in such bags all the time, so the uniform itself belongs to the hotel and is laundered by the hotel. Staff simply leave their worn uniform and pick up a new bag each shift. Therefore this could be from a previous bag prior to the night in question anyway.

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So the bag of clothes could be a red herring?

(I must say there's a bit of a fishing theme happening here!)


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Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
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[petedavo.au]

So the bag of clothes could be a red herring?

(I must say there's a bit of a fishing theme happening here!)


............................................
Posts are purely my own opinion unless otherwise stated with source links. All my original text and images remain exclusively my personal copyright.
[emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]

We're all fishing for answers. Especially, If Julie's disappearance is due to foul play. I was hoping someone would be able to shoot down the proposition I put that Julie is responsible for her own disappearance, and put up credible evidence of another party at play, but maybe not. Maybe it simply was misadventure?

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[Annalise]

We're all fishing for answers. Especially, If Julie's disappearance is due to foul play. I was hoping someone would be able to shoot down the proposition I put that Julie is responsible for her own disappearance, and put up credible evidence of another party at play, but maybe not. Maybe it simply was misadventure?

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Hi Petedavo - I just can't believe that anyone would go to the extremes of driving a car into the sea to get insurance money. Or to make up stories about being chased on freeway to get attention. When you think about it the whole car in the sea thing is crazy. Too extreme. I don't think she had anything to do with it. I think JC was a victim of CSK - the car may have been dumped by him in his unbalanced state of mind. Just to make a big mystery of her going missing. A game. MOO

 

[crabstick]

Cutler had changed from her uniform into a ball gown for the Parmelia Hotel staff party.
The hotel Cutler worked at.

The bag was probably removed from the car and left at Kings Kebabs in some sort of delusional murderers clue to Cutlers where abouts etc.

Corryn Rayney ended up in Kings Park

1988 was bicentennial celebrations of Australia

Ironically Cutler was partying at the Parmelia hotel, named after one the first fleet boats snd the neighbouring suburb Sarah Spiers was found.

Hi Petedavo - I just can't believe that anyone would go to the extremes of driving a car into the sea to get insurance money. Or to make up stories about being chased on freeway to get attention. When you think about it the whole car in the sea thing is crazy. Too extreme. I don't think she had anything to do with it. I think JC was a victim of CSK - the car may have been dumped by him in his unbalanced state of mind. Just to make a big mystery of her going missing. A game. MOO

Chased on Stirling highway on way home from work. Reported to police and a record held of colour of car etc.

In late May or early June, Julie rang her father to report an alarming incident in which she had been driving home in her Fiat sedan from work along the Stirling Highway.

Julie told her father, Roger, that a car had followed her closely for several kilometres along Stirling Highway, almost touching her rear bumper at times and seemed to be trying to force her off the road.

As she approached a turn-off in the beachside suburb of Cottesloe, the car pulled alongside and then suddenly veered in front of her.

Ms Cutler swerved around it and sped away, later reporting the incident to police
http://www.news.com.au/news/vanishe...g/news-story/1f9da6564bf58fdfb6f6532c5e7b5d2f

Drive car in sea rid DNA evidence

 

[Canning Vale]

The distance from Glyde St, Mosman Park to Government Rd is approx 5kms. Map link - Glyde St to Government Rd
Perhaps if CGE was living within the western suburbs V possibly attended the day care centre in Government Rd. Perhaps when the French restaurant closed CGE sought work locally. CGE may have been living with Vs father for a couple of years. Does anyone know what happened to Vs father? Here’s a proposed timeline.

Year	Approx Age	Details
1994		May 1994 Pamela Lawrence killed - June 1994 French restaurant closed CGE perhaps dating Vs father
1995		CGE perhaps pregnant and dating Vs father
1996	0	Approximate year V was born (CGE perhaps living with Vs father)
1997	1	CGE perhaps living with Vs father
1998	2
1999	3
2000	4	V = Kindergarten age – July BRE, CGE & V moved into Acton Ave, Kewdale. http://www.perthnow.com.au CGEs family living local to assist with child-minding
2001	5	V = Preschool age
2002	6	V = School age

I wonder if the murder of Pamela Lawrence was the reason the G family decided to close the restaurant, the two businesses were within close proximity. Most distressing when a local business proprietor is killed.

 

[crabstick]

The distance from Glyde St, Mosman Park to Government Rd is approx 5kms. Map link - Glyde St to Government Rd
Perhaps if CGE was living within the western suburbs V possibly attended the day care centre in Government Rd. Perhaps when the French restaurant closed CGE sought work locally. CGE may have been living with Vs father for a couple of years. Does anyone know what happened to

I wonder if the murder of Pamela Lawrence was the reason the G family decided to close the restaurant, the two businesses were within close proximity. Most distressing when a local business proprietor is killed.

Closing your restaurant business because shop assistant down road murdered in less than a month big move.

Cnr Glyde and Stirling hwy. Up road from Iona

Ironically Cutler May June as well. 20th June.

 

[crabstick]

A french restaurant would have been quite the novelty in the day. Restaurants werent common as today.

Many the Iona girls and families would have visited for a meal on Stirling highway and Glyde st.

The same location Sharon Mason found and Pam Lawrence murdered.

Where Cutlers chaser turned off.

 

[Canning Vale]

I’ve amended the proposed timeline. Many thanks to Eaglette for providing vital information.

Year	Approx Age	Details
1993		CGE pregnant and presumably dating Vs father
1994	0	April 1994 V born (CGE perhaps dating Vs father) May 1994 Pamela Lawrence killed June 1994 French restaurant closed
1995	1	CGE perhaps living with Vs father
1996	2
1997	3
1998	4	V = Kindergarten age (BRE, CGE & V) become members of Eagles (not established if they knew each other)
1999	5	V = Preschool age
2000	6	In January V = School age July BRE, CGE & V moved into Acton Ave, Kewdale http://www.perthnow.com.au (CGEs family living local and perhaps assisting with child-minding)

Alternative possibilities for closing the restaurant:

· Staff member on maternity leave
· 1990s recession effect on business - http://www.theage.com.au
· Family operated business for 8 years (had enough). June is the end of the financial year.

 

[Canning Vale]

A french restaurant would have been quite the novelty in the day. Restaurants werent common as today.

Many the Iona girls and families would have visited for a meal on Stirling highway and Glyde st.

The same location Sharon Mason found and Pam Lawrence murdered.

Where Cutlers chaser turned off.

Crabsticks,

Many thanks for the info. Spooks has mentioned a few times that there has been a lot of activity/murder within that particular area.

The French restaurant would have been a wonderful novilty. Perhaps the early 1990s recession affected them and there were less customers, eventually closing the business.

 

[Canning Vale]

BRE had a definite interest in GPS (Global Position Systems)

The website he had registered his interest in GPS was a website that had developed GPS tracking software which could track any with a radio device.

Military had adopted the early tracking software.

Has anyone got any idea when GPS became available? Perhaps BRE is a gadget fan and utilized them to track victims.