Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #17

[Canning Vale]

In that case, could it be possible that the DNA on the cigarettes in JC's car, match the man who drowned? I would assume that this could be confirmed / ruled out by testing family of man who drowned?

Hopefully they found an identity of the man who drowned - and he's not just a John Doe. I'm sure WAPOL would be able to connect the dots - or did they?

During December that year there was a Peter John Butt who died in NSW, who may have been his father. I've sent all the information into CS.

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/node/8618266

 

[meticulously]

Some Interesting parallels Brisbane Courier Mail says the murderer confessed to his son on his death bed. I can't get into the courier Mail.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-06/timeline-sharron-phillips/9022434

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204656

Sharon websleuths thread .
RiP

 

[Innerchild]

Hopefully they found an identity of the man who drowned - and he's not just a John Doe. I'm sure WAPOL would be able to connect the dots - or did they?

During December that year there was a Peter John Butt who died in NSW, who may have been his father. I've sent all the information into CS.

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/node/8618266

Nowhere in the newspaper report does it say he drowned! Where did you get that he drowned?? What dots do they need to connect?? A naked man was found dead on the shoreline 800 m south of where JC's car was found at Cottesloe three weeks later!!

How do you possibly get Peter John Thomas Butt (31) missing from Vic Park in May 1988 connected and possibly a boyfriend of the 22 year old Julie Cutler? Where is this going?? ...and what does someone called Peter John Butt who dies in NSW in December 1988 have to do with Julie Cutler?

 

[Innerchild]

In that case, could it be possible that the DNA on the cigarettes in JC's car, match the man who drowned? I would assume that this could be confirmed / ruled out by testing family of man who drowned?

I'm sure if the couple seen leaving the work function just after JC being asked to come forward by Vince Katich, came forward then you might have a match for the DNA on the cigarette butts. If of course any DNA survived after being submerged in sea water.

What man drowned? Nowhere does it say he was or had been in the water. The car seat from JC's car washed up and was retrieved just south of Cott groyne on Monday 20th in the afternoon.

The car was found with ignition on and lights on early on the morning of the 22nd. Anyone who thinks the car was in the water for 2 days and not noticed in the middle of Cott beach is mistaken and can talk to the coloured hat brigade (bobbies) paid beach ranger who was on the beach every week day, clubbies, swimmers, joggers. Look at photo taken of so called bobbies, older woman swimmers, in the so called huge storm week can see what poor conditions look like.

Car in surf mystery deepens Monday 27th June 1988.

The car was winched ashore and taken for forensic tests. Divers on Friday received a floormat thought to have come from the boot of the Fiat. It was found next to the groyne. The entry point of the car in the water remains a mystery. There was no evidence such as scrape marks, that the car had been driven or pushed off the groyne. To drive from the service road around the walkway to the groyne would have involved negotiating deep sand drifts that have blown across the walkway. The officer ……. Marine Parade to the Cottesloe SLSC and boatshed. Such an entry would involve running the car off a 1 m concrete retaining wall across a narrow stretch of sand and into the surf.

 

[Mo Joe]

I'm sure if the couple seen leaving the work function just after JC being asked to come forward by Vince Katich, came forward then you might have a match for the DNA on the cigarette butts. If of course any DNA survived after being submerged in sea water.

What man drowned? Nowhere does it say he was or had been in the water. The car seat from JC's car washed up and was retrieved just south of Cott groyne on Monday 20th in the afternoon.

The car was found with ignition on and lights on early on the morning of the 22nd. Anyone who thinks the car was in the water for 2 days and not noticed in the middle of Cott beach is mistaken and can talk to the coloured hat brigade (bobbies) paid beach ranger who was on the beach every week day, clubbies, swimmers, joggers. Look at photo taken of so called bobbies, older woman swimmers, in the so called huge storm week can see what poor conditions look like.

Car in surf mystery deepens Monday 27th June 1988.

The car was winched ashore and taken for forensic tests. Divers on Friday received a floormat thought to have come from the boot of the Fiat. It was found next to the groyne. The entry point of the car in the water remains a mystery. There was no evidence such as scrape marks, that the car had been driven or pushed off the groyne. To drive from the service road around the walkway to the groyne would have involved negotiating deep sand drifts that have blown across the walkway. The officer ……. Marine Parade to the Cottesloe SLSC and boatshed. Such an entry would involve running the car off a 1 m concrete retaining wall across a narrow stretch of sand and into the surf.

Sorry. I thought I had read earlier that he had drowned. I'm confused about the father and son scenario as well.

 

[Canning Vale]

Sorry. I thought I had read earlier that he had drowned. I'm confused about the father and son scenario as well.

In the past there’s been much discussion on oceanic conditions when Metic provided a clear explanation of weather conditions during the time.

After June 1988s rough seas, a man was found dead at Cottesloe beach; please accept my apologies for thinking he had drowned.

That June two people went missing within two days - it’s possible those incidences are related.

Although it may appear that JC had drowned, it’s also a possibility the scene may have been staged.

 

[Canning Vale]

Nowhere in the newspaper report does it say he drowned! Where did you get that he drowned?? What dots do they need to connect?? A naked man was found dead on the shoreline 800 m south of where JC's car was found at Cottesloe three weeks later!!

How do you possibly get Peter John Thomas Butt (31) missing from Vic Park in May 1988 connected and possibly a boyfriend of the 22 year old Julie Cutler? Where is this going?? ...and what does someone called Peter John Butt who dies in NSW in December 1988 have to do with Julie Cutler?

Other than you, who mentioned a boyfriend?

 

[PCS]

I think that PCS just likes keeping us all in suspense!

No, not really. I just don't want to say where BRE might have left a container. Go check Huntingdale exchanges.

 

[Canning Vale]

No, not really. I just don't want to say where BRE might have left a container. Go check Huntingdale exchanges.

My daughter and I have already had a glance around there, in the surrounding bushes nearby. If you do go there, a short distance from the exchange there's one or two tyres embedded into the ground. We couldn't pull them out. My daughter thought they were really odd. I wondered if the tyres could be used to pull something with a rope or chain.

We noticed the building has double doors which are accessible for a vehicle. Also, it's possible to drive a vehicle around the back of the building.

 

[PCS]

Have a dig. Might be a container inside the tyre?

 

[Annalise]

With regards Julie Cutler's case - it seems to me that either the police didn't look into a lot of things or they are sitting on info and keeping it from the public. There is no info as to whether they looked into the body of the middle aged man. Even to get DNA from his family that could have been connected to JC at a later date. So much research of the ocean tides and weather conditions has been done by Innerchild and Meticulously. Canning Vale looking at things from a different perspective that JC may have wanted to disappear. More information is needed from the police to be able to make sense of it all. Will it ever happen that police will put out extra information they might have so that sleuths have something to work with or is it being kept from the public. Perhaps something will come up in BRE's trial as JC was thought by police to be a victim of BRE. Otherwise how can we sleuth this case and other cold cases. MOO

 

[Canning Vale]

With regards Julie Cutler's case - it seems to me that either the police didn't look into a lot of things or they are sitting on info and keeping it from the public. There is no info as to whether they looked into the body of the middle aged man. Even to get DNA from his family that could have been connected to JC at a later date. So much research of the ocean tides and weather conditions has been done by Innerchild and Meticulously. Canning Vale looking at things from a different perspective that JC may have wanted to disappear. More information is needed from the police to be able to make sense of it all. Will it ever happen that police will put out extra information they might have so that sleuths have something to work with or is it being kept from the public. Perhaps something will come up in BRE's trial as JC was thought by police to be a victim of BRE. Otherwise how can we sleuth this case and other cold cases. MOO

Annalise,

Thank you. My thoughts have always been that police are unable to connect information. Not unless someone provides the information and solves it up for them. It’s like any job; people opt for the easiest way.
If we did want to look into a staged disappearance, perhaps we could start by looking at the name “Julie Leanne” on the internet.

 

[milamber182]

The overhead forensic photos did show a large tree canopy. It wasn't so dense though that the woman and kids who found her couldn't run under a tree for shelter from the rain as she said. From the 1997 Landgate photos the fences, drainage and road alignment still look the same though. And the paddocks from 619 Millar road were cleared closer to the road verge. Does anyone remember reports about Jane's watch being found on the edge of the road and handed into the riding school two days before she was found?

The only mention of Jane Rimmer's watch I can find with a quick Google search is on the bigfooty forums from 2014.

20. Early on The Age mentioned Jane Rimmer's watch was found. Was it at the dump site or found in Claremont?

Does anyone have any CSK articles from The Age mid-to-late 1996?

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-25#post-31873083

 

[Innerchild]

Other than you, who mentioned a boyfriend?

It seems to me that you did and that's why I felt I had to question this.

Quote CV Would it be possible for JC to have, had a male friend that no one was aware of? PJTB

Could it be possible that the dead body found, in the weeks after JCs disappearance was PJTB. The article advises the man was 45 –
PJTB was 31.

If PJTB possibly dived in to help JC and drowned, where was his car?...snipped endquote.

Metic kindly presented sea conditions taken from Albany and the Rottenest Bouy 4 km west of Rottnest without indicating swell direction which is extremely important as because of Rottnest Island is the barrier for the swell and has little relationship to what occurs on Cottesloe beach.

Weather on Sunday 19th June 1988 was 19 degrees and rain. (Sunday Times 19th June 1988 Murder Hunt Car Clue) Not bad for winter and corresponds to the image on Cottesloe beach approx 7.00 am June 1988 with the older lady swimmers. Notice how many people on the beach around 7.00 am in winter in June 1988. (prvious post)

JC went missing that night, 12.30 am on the 20th June 1988. The back seat of the Fiat washed up on the afternoon of 20th June 1988.

Waves on Wednesday 22nd June 1988 can be seen and they may be 0.5 m. when the image of the car was finally shown in July 14 2000.

Picture of Cottesloe beach on Friday 14th June 1988 looks stormy and rough from the image. However, there the car was retrieved two days before this and even though this is the big storm, there were no waves breaking over the groyne.

The Daily Mail Friday 24th June 1988

Notice the subheading that hotels worry that a maniac is stalking Perth's women.

 

[janwa]

Annalise,

Thank you. My thoughts have always been that police are unable to connect information. Not unless someone provides the information and solves it up for them. It’s like any job; people opt for the easiest way.
If we did want to look into a staged disappearance, perhaps we could start by looking at the name “Julie Leanne” on the internet.

Who knows what info the police may have, I would think that when you have got nowhere with a case for 30 yrs you would try a different tack, someone may well have information they are not aware means anything until it is triggered. The person who frightened her in the car may be crucial, was that the same person who did the break in. Did she go to the Kebab takeaway straight after leaving the Parmelia where she appears to have left her blouse etc. Why did they wait a year to hand it in to the police. And why would anyone keep it all that time unless it was the annual disposal of the lost property box.

 

[Innerchild]

Hi Spooks - maybe he did access the services of prostitutes. He got paid well at Telstra. I wonder if he did pay a prostitute would he have to contain himself not to go too far and murder them. MOO

There was the prostitution taskforce which ran between 2000 and 2002 headed up by Con Bayens to try to catch person or persons responsible for attacking, abduction or murdering prostitutes. Lisa Brown was one unsolved murder with links to Huntingdale that has been discussed on her. Infamously Bayens detained boot lined guy who may turn out to be the accused.

Adrian Bayley started attacking prostitutes in St Kilda in Melbourne from 2000 and many either did not report the crimes or did not seem to be taken seriously by the cops at time.

There are interesting posts by a former member who thought some of these may be attributed to Donald Moray and some to the CSK.

 

[Innerchild]

The only mention of Jane Rimmer's watch I can find with a quick Google search is on the bigfooty forums from 2014.



Does anyone have any CSK articles from The Age mid-to-late 1996?

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-25#post-31873083

The Age 30th May 1998 pg 35 is the only mention of her watch in reports that I could see.

I think I must have read on here that it was found near the side of the road, 2 days before her body was discovered and taken to the horse riding property to see if anyone had lost it. Appreciate you trying to find the post milamber, it's hard to use the search function here unless you know the name of the poster.

Source: TheAGE 30th May 1998 pg 35 Fear and Loathing in Perth's Heart

 

[Annalise]

There was the prostitution taskforce which ran between 2000 and 2002 headed up by Con Bayens to try to catch person or persons responsible for attacking, abduction or murdering prostitutes. Lisa Brown was one unsolved murder with links to Huntingdale that has been discussed on her. Infamously Bayens detained boot lined guy who may turn out to be the accused.

Adrian Bayley started attacking prostitutes in St Kilda in Melbourne from 2000 and many either did not report the crimes or did not seem to be taken seriously by the cops at time.

There are interesting posts by a former member who thought some of these may be attributed to Donald Moray and some to the CSK.

Hi IC - it will be very interesting if Con Bayens identifies the man with the lined boot as BRE during the trial. Also he could have killed Lisa Brown for all we know. I know Donald Morey was a psychopath and killed for enjoyment (but had trouble performing sexually). I think he was in jail around the time of the Claremont Killings though. I can't wait for the trial to begin when we may get information that clarifies a lot of what we have been suspecting. MOO

 

[Innerchild]

Hi IC - it will be very interesting if Con Bayens identifies the man with the lined boot as BRE during the trial. Also he could have killed Lisa Brown for all we know. I know Donald Morey was a psychopath and killed for enjoyment (but had trouble performing sexually). I think he was in jail around the time of the Claremont Killings though. I can't wait for the trial to begin when we may get information that clarifies a lot of what we have been suspecting. MOO

Hi AL, I meant that Donald Moray may have been responsible for some of the attacks and missing prostitutes but so might have the CSK, having moved from Claremont, similar to what Adrian Bayley did in Melbourne. Still doesn't really make sense I know what I mean though.

 

[Innerchild]

Source: The Age 6th August 1996

This is the only article I could find on Jane in the Age in 1996