Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #19

[Innerchild]

Are you thinking what I’m thinking...

Almost certainly. We had quite a discussion on this a while back, on websleuths. Ask PD. Most was removed and we were ordered not to talk about other members. Or suppression orders are in place.

This particular member could have outed himself by describing aspects of an assault in Church Lane where the victim had her head bashed against a wall that were never published in the media.

 

[chaleigh26]

If I remember correctly, some of the old timers went somewhere else to discuss the case.

 

[Innerchild]

Really CV? You should go back and read from the beginning in thread #1, there are some very interesting, informative, insightful, whacky, crazy, funny, posts- it’s a fantastic and informative read!!!
As I’ve mentioned previously (and am adding to now) Bartholemeus, Sutton, Metic, Papertrail, Parkie and Crabstick to name a few have some very interesting posts and points of view. Barth is a local who was a young guy out partying in Claremont at the time, and Papertrail had a enormous library of newspaper articles on the case, and Parkie was very humorous but interesting too.

I first found websleuth’s around the time of the 20th anniversary of Sarah’s disappearance as all of the newspaper articles etc. bought the whole thing back up for me again, being a female from Perth who had lived through it - went to UWA, socialised in Claremont a few years before, worked in the area when Sarah disappeared, now lived in the area the past 18-20 years.
I read from page 1 all the way thru, then lurked everyday until the arrest of the alleged CSK, the accused BRE, when I joined up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good observations Owlie, it pays to read things on here. You and CV also missed one of the smarter people on here without a name who's contributed much information and provided guidance not always appreciated to keep conversations on track. Almost impossible at times.

What would I know though. Better to be missed out than poked in the eye with a stick I think. MOO.:thinking:

 

[Akai]

Hi, I was informed Sam VD was trying this case but things change.. that was when he was originally arrested and charged. Also, legal aid is very different to pro-bono work. Many lawyers take work for the challenge or the cause (Malcolm Mc Cusker) who certainly don’t need the money. I asssume legal aid is strictly means tested and asset based.

Yes, Legal Aid and pro-bono work differ.

Legal Aid is where the work is funded independently (by the taxpayer) because the person falls into a financial situation that means they can't afford a defense. There is specific financial criteria that must be fulfilled, and and Legal Aid also have criteria about which cases they will fund (for example, they didn't fund Adrian Bayley's appeal). Legal Aid is more about the funding side, because while there are lawyers who work for Legal Aid, it can also be outsourced to a lawyer who is prepared to work for whatever Legal Aid is paying.

Pro bono is when a lawyer offers their services gratis.

Thanks for the info re Sam VD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Credulious]

Legal Aid offers a financial hardship test of earnings under $50000 p/a I think it is.

If you do not meet the criteria, a grant is not made, although sometimes exceptions are made either way.

[FONT=&quot]The Reasonableness Test takes into account the merit, the costs versus benefit/detriment of a case and whether it is appropriate to spend limited public legal aid funds on the matter. If granted aid, a lawyer will be assigned to represent the person. If a conflict exists, such as, a co-accused already has a grant of aid, a client can still apply and if eligible, be assigned to a different lawyer.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]The Reasonableness Test takes into account the merit, the costs versus benefit/detriment of a case and whether it is appropriate to spend limited public legal aid funds on the matter. If granted aid, a lawyer will be assigned to represent the person. If a conflict exists, such as, a co-accused already has a grant of aid, a client can still apply and if eligible, be assigned to a different lawyer.
http://www.concessions.wa.gov.au/Co...d-WA---means-tested-Legal-Representation.aspx[/FONT]​

 

[Frequant Flyer]

This guy has to have legal representation or there is no court case , legal aid will be paying for it no if buts or maybes .... He obviously cannot afford to pay for it....the length of time this will go on for rules out pro bono .... I doubt he has a rich benefactor .... Legal aid is paying for it , I rest my case

 

[meticulously]

Almost certainly. We had quite a discussion on this a while back, on websleuths. Ask PD. Most was removed and we were ordered not to talk about other members. Or suppression orders are in place.

This particular member could have outed himself by describing aspects of an assault in Church Lane where the victim had her head bashed against a wall that were never published in the media.

Was that the mythical gold skirt [emoji780]

 

[Akai]

I have figured out where the taxi rank info came from: Marshall's book.

It is discussed in Thread 3 (around post 582). Quite detailed, actually. According to this, the taxi rank was installed after SS disappearance on St Quentain Avenue, so JR's friends may have gone to the taxi rank to get the taxi.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Akai]

This guy has to have legal representation or there is no court case , legal aid will be paying for it no if buts or maybes .... He obviously cannot afford to pay for it....the length of time this will go on for rules out pro bono .... I doubt he has a rich benefactor .... Legal aid is paying for it , I rest my case

Are you privy to BRE's financial situation and also to how that would work in an assessment by Legal Aid? Can you rule out a pro-bono representation? Not saying he isn't receiving Legal Aid, but what you are saying does not conclude that he will be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Frequant Flyer]

Are you privy to BRE's financial situation and also to how that would work in an assessment by Legal Aid? Can you rule out a pro-bono representation? Not saying he isn't receiving Legal Aid, but what you are saying does not conclude that he will be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

in cases like this there is no assessment , I do not have to be privy to his financial situation , and pro bono on a case like this could lead to bankruptcy... Legal aid pays in the hundreds of dollars an hour .... It's not a work for the dole scheme

 

[Akai]

in cases like this there is no assessment , I do not have to be privy to his financial situation , and pro bono on a case like this could lead to bankruptcy... Legal aid pays in the hundreds of dollars an hour .... It's not a work for the dole scheme

I don't agree.

Lloyd Rayney was expected to exhaust his own funds first before he could apply for Legal Aid.

"Legal Aid director George Turnbull said yesterday Mr Rayney applied for funding six weeks into his three-month trial.
He was allowed the grant after satisfying strict criteria and on the condition Legal Aid could demand repayment at any time.
The assessment required that Mr Rayney had exhausted all available means of funding his own lawyer, Mr Turnbull said."

https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/rayney-had-legal-aid-for-trial-ng-ya-344842

Moreover, Legal Aid refused to fund Adrian Bayley's appeal, despite the COA believing he would have had a chance of an acquittal.

"The Court of Appeal also made observations about Legal Aid's refusal to fund Bayley's appeal (he appealed against two of the three rape convictions). Bayley appealed the initial refusal and the Supreme Court ordered Legal Aid Victoria to reconsider the matter. Legal Aid announced in March this year that two independent reviews backed its decision not to fund Bayley's appeal. This did not impress the Court of Appeal, who noted that, at worst, Bayley had a strongly arguable case for acquittal and he was in no position to argue the case himself."

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...ts-a-dangerous-precedent-20160714-gq5f4q.html

Given that, could you please provide a source for your comment that Legal Aid does not make assessments in cases like this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Eaglette]

Come on in 20 guests !!!! Eaglette, Canning Vale, El Gordo, Frequant Flyer, Jennys Last IOU, Lozza45, Pandit - that's 27 of us :blushing::blushing::blushing::blushing::blushing: - you can see all the photos and who is liking all the comments.

 

[Jennys last IOU]

Do you mean - something like a Peace Lily ??

No, something man made. I see BRE did a video link from Hakea. Hence I am glad I didn't bother to go in to court. With so many pages listing what they have on him it does not surprise me if he pleads guilty. Wish It cooled down a bit so I can go to my site.

 

[Canning Vale]

1.5 million documents... Perhaps part of those form electronic records such as text messages, emails, images, photos and videos. I’d imagine that if a video image was presented as evidence, it may require screen dumps and accompanying text descriptions.

Such documentation probably doesn’t have the persons’ name attached. WAPOL wouldn’t know who the person was and cannot publicly show them – what a dilemma!

Could it be possible, WAPOL have spent months going through photographs/videos and recently stumbled across someone of particular interest?

Below is the State Records Office definition of an electronic record.

http://www.sro.wa.gov.au/state-recordkeeping/recordkeeping-faq#elec

 

[Frequant Flyer]

I don't agree.

Lloyd Rayney was expected to exhaust his own funds first before he could apply for Legal Aid.

"Legal Aid director George Turnbull said yesterday Mr Rayney applied for funding six weeks into his three-month trial.
He was allowed the grant after satisfying strict criteria and on the condition Legal Aid could demand repayment at any time.
The assessment required that Mr Rayney had exhausted all available means of funding his own lawyer, Mr Turnbull said."

https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/rayney-had-legal-aid-for-trial-ng-ya-344842

Moreover, Legal Aid refused to fund Adrian Bayley's appeal, despite the COA believing he would have had a chance of an acquittal.

"The Court of Appeal also made observations about Legal Aid's refusal to fund Bayley's appeal (he appealed against two of the three rape convictions). Bayley appealed the initial refusal and the Supreme Court ordered Legal Aid Victoria to reconsider the matter. Legal Aid announced in March this year that two independent reviews backed its decision not to fund Bayley's appeal. This did not impress the Court of Appeal, who noted that, at worst, Bayley had a strongly arguable case for acquittal and he was in no position to argue the case himself."

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...ts-a-dangerous-precedent-20160714-gq5f4q.html

Given that, could you please provide a source for your comment that Legal Aid does not make assessments in cases like this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

why legal aid was not given to Lloyd rayney the lawyer is a mystery to me , I will have to ponder why a lawyer would be refused it .... Bayley was a multiple offender who no amount of legal aid would help , I think he had broken parole which would have ruled him out ..... BRE is still considered innocent under the law , entitled to legal aid and that is my source for saying so ... Some people have knowledge from life and don't need google to varify things for them.... I have had reason to use legal aid on numerous occasions and know how the system works

 

[janwa]

For the top 30 Legal Aid Wa fee earners see page 28 of the Legal Aid Annual report (its 30 on the tool bar)

https://www.legalaid.wa.gov.au/LegalAidServices/About/Documents/Annual Report 2016-17.pdf

Also on the Legal Aid application you have to sign an agreement to pay back if requested (such as at a time you sell your house etc.

 

[Jennys last IOU]

If BRE pleads not guilty, he will have to sell his house to pay for the defense team. Even if he pleads guilty he will probably still have to sell his house. I'd put money on that BRE will eventually plead guilty to prevent him getting a very severe grilling by the prosecution. So have they found his trophy box of what he took off the victims? Or just dna off the Commodore. OR DNA from clothing fond in his house. BRE was a mug with laving the kimono. And a major mug if he had stuff of the victims at his house.

 

[Akai]

why legal aid was not given to Lloyd rayney the lawyer is a mystery to me , I will have to ponder why a lawyer would be refused it .... Bayley was a multiple offender who no amount of legal aid would help , I think he had broken parole which would have ruled him out ..... BRE is still considered innocent under the law , entitled to legal aid and that is my source for saying so ... Some people have knowledge from life and don't need google to variety things for them

Knowledge from life is not the same as knowing how something actually works based on the regulations and policies. But in any case, if you present something as fact it is my understanding that you're supposed to provide a source when asked.

Legal Aid have criteria, and it's pretty strict.

Legal Aid funded Bayley's original defense, so broken parole didn't rule him out.

People have been provided funding for their appeals, after they have been found guilty in the initial trial (and are no longer considered innocent under the law). Although this is done with strict criteria, and has been shown to be limited, it does certainly happen. I have linked a below article for an example (of both funding and the strictness of criteria).

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...n/news-story/64aa21252b02b45c5893fc07c528ba9d

Moreover, that a guilty finding does not rule out funding an appeal is supported by the criticism from legal circles about the decision of Legal Aid in the Adrian Bayley case. The article I linked in my previous reply is written by a lawyer speaking on behalf of the Australian Lawyers Alliance. These are people who know the criteria.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Eaglette]

Amongst all the documents I'm sure will be those that have dated/come across BRE. Imagine his RSVP profile. All the girls doing a report in their diaries - Black cross - not dating him again "ghost" him. JMO

 

[Credulious]

I have figured out where the taxi rank info came from: Marshall's book.

It is discussed in Thread 3 (around post 582). Quite detailed, actually. According to this, the taxi rank was installed after SS disappearance on St Quentain Avenue, so JR's friends may have gone to the taxi rank to get the taxi.

This suggests that Jane refused to use a taxi rank to meet someone out the Continental hotel.

Someone Jane may have met prior around her workplace on Government road adjacent Karrakatta cemetery. Was Jane a non abduction?