Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #20

[janwa]

It is one thing to discuss the mental state and crimes of an adult as the alleged CSK but quite another to speculate with story and imagery on the fantasies of children and their sexuality on a public thread.

I'm thinking the discussion has veered away from speculation based on facts into speculation based on psychological estimation of what others have done or may do.

The information given so far relates to adult victims and an alleged adult perpetrator who may have had issues as a child but that is as far as we can speculate at this time.

We should remember that a percentage of members on WS will have their own horror stories and be mindful of that fact.

 

[Frequant Flyer]

It is one thing to discuss the mental state, habits and crimes of an adult as the alleged CSK but quite another to speculate with story and imagery on the fantasies of children and their sexuality on a public thread.

Thank you for this ,
Discussing a child's masturbation habits , posting links to where said masturbation may have taken place and fantasing about what may or may not have been used as stimulates is rank

All the Google links in the world cannot justify this

 

[Akai]

A critical item from CG's body was overlooked when CG was found and not tested until after Schramm review 2004. Seems strange though, you would think that DNA on the body would be collected immediately as a procedural and integral part of the coronial investigation. Was it something else they found which was overlooked?

Yes, it's weird.

I see three possibilities:
1. It was something they identified at the time, but DNA testing at the time didn't enable them to do anything with it, and the Schramm review identified that it could now be tested.
2. It was something they didn't even look at at the time and the Schramm review identified it.
3. It was something they could have tested at the time but they simply didn't and the Schramm review realized this (as in, police made a mistake originally).

My interpretation of what has been reported is that it was the second one. Probably bagged and put in evidence but just not examined. Could be the first one (and probably the reason it was overlooked was due to a lack of testing procedures for that item), and I think the third is the least likely.

However I have always scratched my head as to what it might be. I know it was discussed previously. I thought maybe a body piercing. Body piercings were starting to become popular in the 90s and CG was worldly and had been overseas for a year so maybe she had one. Something the police may have ignored at the time because they weren't yet common.


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[Akai]

Technically, of course it was all collected originally. Im not sure how long the forensics had access to the body and the scene but you'd have to assume it was only a brief period within which to collect evidence.
I think it speaks not only to the lack of capabilities of DNA extraction methods at that time, particularly in Western Australia, but also to the relative inexperience of the police in dealing with such evidence. My take is that they didn't realise what they had was capable of providing anything useful and when they were made aware of that capability, it was sent to be tested.
Its quite a contrast to see the forensic police today cover head to toe in overalls, booties, head coverings and masks compared with the images of them processing JRs site wearing nothing more than gloves. Other shots of line searches & police milling around CGs site show the police wearing nothing in the way of protection from contamination of any evidence whatsoever.

Thanks, I agree with your insight there.


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[Akai]

Despite there appearing to be multiple sources of DNA tying these crimes together, and the logical assertion that they would have hoped to have caught the person responsible many years ago, I think the police would have preferred to have taken this case to trial back at a time where knowledge of forensics was alot less than it is today and there werent quite so many cases heard previously to set the precedence.
Knowing only what we know now, I dont think any of them will be looking forward to taking this to court. Id say they're in for quite a battle and I can only hope that what we hear eventually is the absolute truth of the matters, good or bad.

I agree with this.

I think it is going to be a real challenge for them forensically given the timeframe, reviews, overlooking things previously, and potentially even the veracity of the links from a forensic perspective.

I also think the fixation on previous suspects may become a problem.


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[Chicago Bulls]

This guy is a sexual deviate

 

[Chicago Bulls]

It said there were clothes missing from the victims.
This guy took the clothes to relive the experience the scene later.
If you guys dont like it, this website may not be for you.
This is very common for these sexual deviates to masturbate over their womens clothing they steal and take from their murdered victims.

 

[petedavo.au]

There are new comers to these threads.
There is an accused, and there are charges before the Court. The matters are still yet to be adjudicate. This means that sharing opinions upon the accused culpability is a matter of Sub Judice.
Make yourself aware of what you can or can't say, and how you must word your opinions to avoid Subjudice Contempt.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-28/heslop-twitter-contempt/4285856

Refresher - Sub Judice Contempt - To Publish or not to Publish? | Victorian ...
https://www.vgso.vic.gov.au/content/refresher-sub-judice-contempt-publish-or-not-publish

Chris Dawson's warning
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-22/bradley-edwards-charged-with-sarah-spiers-murder/9475258

 

[Akai]

Most of the discussion in the thousands of posts is he is a cross dresser.

The issue of cross dressing was first raised by police in conjunction with an early suspect, on whom the police were fixated for a long time: http://www.news.com.au/national/wes...s/news-story/81fd39cd0a6663dd0f0954f98dfbf30c Who knows why they thought this.

The reason there is limited discussion about other possibilities is because there are no suggestions of it in MSM. There was a report of clothing going missing in HD around the time of the attack (sportswear), but it has not been linked to the CSK accused (can link to the screenshot of the article on here, but can't find a link). There have been reports of a prowler-type in HD around the time of the attack, but again, not linked to the accused.

Otherwise we have the kimono, and the absence of JR's clothing (but CG was found with at least some of her clothes).

We are a bit restricted in what we can and can't discuss and the manner in which we can discuss it.

ETA: Also wanted to note that the matters in question relate to adult women. There has never been any link between those matters and anything to do with children.

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[Canning Vale]

My thoughts are the CSKs behaviour is triggered by rejection, mainly the break-up with a partner. I think his victim’s resemble a former girl-friend/partner who had dumped him, but I’m no expert just my thoughts.

It would seem the kimono had a significant meaning for the perpetrator of the Huntingdale (HD) attack.

The media advised the accused entered the home through an unlocked door. He wouldn’t have known the door was going be unlocked. Perhaps he had intentions of using the kimono to remove a fly screen, and manoeuvre a window open, hence disguising his fingerprints. Yet he kept the kimono,on hand, during the attack - dropping it as he fled the scene.

As rape appears to be the intention, perhaps he intended using the kimono for strangulation. Thankfully, the parent/s were home, but he would have figured that by the amount of cars parked withinthe driveway.

Perhaps the kimono belonged to the accused – no one has come forward to claim it. If it was stolen from a clothesline, perhaps no one realizes – it was 30 years ago.

The kimono looks like an extra-large; perhaps the accused was given it as a gift, from a family member or girl friend who’d been on a holiday to Asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimono

 

[Akai]

My thoughts are the CSKs behaviour is triggered by rejection, mainly the break-up with a partner. I think his victim’s resemble a former girl-friend/partner who had dumped him, but I’m no expert just my thoughts.

It would seem the kimono had a significant meaning for the perpetrator of the Huntingdale (HD) attack.

The media advised the accused entered the home through an unlocked door. He wouldn’t have known the door was going be unlocked. Perhaps he had intentions of using the kimono to remove a fly screen, and manoeuvre a window open, hence disguising his fingerprints. Yet he kept the kimono,on hand, during the attack - dropping it as he fled the scene.

As rape appears to be the intention, perhaps he intended using the kimono for strangulation. Thankfully, the parent/s were home, but he would have figured that by the amount of cars parked withinthe driveway.

Perhaps the kimono belonged to the accused – no one has come forward to claim it. If it was stolen from a clothesline, perhaps no one realizes – it was 30 years ago.

The kimono looks like an extra-large; perhaps the accused was given it as a gift, from a family member or girl friend who’d been on a holiday to Asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimono

BBM

I wonder if the perpetrator did know the door was unlocked?


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[meticulously]

My thoughts are the CSKs behaviour is triggered by rejection, mainly the break-up with a partner. I think his victim’s resemble a former girl-friend/partner who had dumped him, but I’m no expert just my thoughts.

It would seem the kimono had a significant meaning for the perpetrator of the Huntingdale (HD) attack.

The media advised the accused entered the home through an unlocked door. He wouldn’t have known the door was going be unlocked. Perhaps he had intentions of using the kimono to remove a fly screen, and manoeuvre a window open, hence disguising his fingerprints. Yet he kept the kimono,on hand, during the attack - dropping it as he fled the scene.

As rape appears to be the intention, perhaps he intended using the kimono for strangulation. Thankfully, the parent/s were home, but he would have figured that by the amount of cars parked withinthe driveway.

Perhaps the kimono belonged to the accused – no one has come forward to claim it. If it was stolen from a clothesline, perhaps no one realizes – it was 30 years ago.

The kimono looks like an extra-large; perhaps the accused was given it as a gift, from a family member or girl friend who’d been on a holiday to Asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimono

"It would seem the kimono had a significant meaning for the perpetrator of the Huntingdale (HD) attack."

CV , it may have been significant and your opinion is respected .

Im going to suggest that it was just as possibly insignificant and was just convenience at the time.
Perhaps there was nothing much else on the clothesline of interest, the perpetrator just grabbed it out of convenience to be used in the break in & enter attack in some way or another- Another scenario.
The perpetrator dropped it when running away, did he even care about it ?
It may have been a crumb on the trail for him at the time,
and that trail led to a thwarted assault that night when the victim screamed.
My guess is he was drunk .
Many of these offenders are drunk or on drugs .
Like the 1988 offender Burke that # Spinnaker posted
JmO

 

[Canning Vale]

17 February1988 was a Wednesday and likely to have been a stinking hot night. I don’t remember ducted air-conditioning back then, same with window locks and alarm systems.

The media advised the perpetrator entered through an unlocked door. I’d think he would have tried the windows first. Perhaps he was scouting about looking for clothing, and by chance found an unlocked door, taking advantage of the situation – a complete surprise and perhaps not planned.

That might be why he bungled the attack. He took a huge chance with the parent’s being home too. A unit isn’t a big abode I’m surprised the parents didn’t wake up beforehand.

If he was coming home from somewhere, perhaps he was cutting through the block en route home to Gay St. As PD mentioned if the unit/house was new there probably weren’t any fences around the perimeter.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/dir/George+St,+Gosnells+WA+6110/Gay+St,+Huntingdale+WA+6110/@-32.0783038,115.9538892,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x2a3295900829360d:0xd13fca3d9aa73d67!2m2!1d115.9822527!2d-32.0669573!1m5!1m1!1s0x2a3295c4592423c9:0xfc7005add1b956e2!2m2!1d115.9617692!2d-32.0885278!3e2

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj5rtWs-OXZAhUOQLwKHTpwCVMQFgg_MAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com.au%2Fnational%2Fcourts-law%2Fquiet-boy-and-helpful-neighbour-nicknamed-bogsy-is-man-accused-of-claremont-serial-killings%2Fnews-story%2F44d3d60b4c894e632bb30a23a11bc787&usg=AOvVaw3lPLUqqyNV8pd9N5wFUPjt

 

[Kambo]

17 February1988 was a Wednesday and likely to have been a stinking hot night. I don’t remember ducted air-conditioning back then, same with window locks and alarm systems.

The media advised the perpetrator entered through an unlocked door. I’d think he would have tried the windows first. Perhaps he was scouting about looking for clothing, and by chance found an unlocked door, taking advantage of the situation – a complete surprise and perhaps not planned.

That might be why he bungled the attack. He took a huge chance with the parent’s being home too. A unit isn’t a big abode I’m surprised the parents didn’t wake up beforehand.

If he was coming home from somewhere, perhaps he was cutting through the block en route home to Gay St. As PD mentioned if the unit/house was new there probably weren’t any fences around the perimeter.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/dir/George+St,+Gosnells+WA+6110/Gay+St,+Huntingdale+WA+6110/@-32.0783038,115.9538892,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x2a3295900829360d:0xd13fca3d9aa73d67!2m2!1d115.9822527!2d-32.0669573!1m5!1m1!1s0x2a3295c4592423c9:0xfc7005add1b956e2!2m2!1d115.9617692!2d-32.0885278!3e2

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj5rtWs-OXZAhUOQLwKHTpwCVMQFgg_MAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com.au%2Fnational%2Fcourts-law%2Fquiet-boy-and-helpful-neighbour-nicknamed-bogsy-is-man-accused-of-claremont-serial-killings%2Fnews-story%2F44d3d60b4c894e632bb30a23a11bc787&usg=AOvVaw3lPLUqqyNV8pd9N5wFUPjt

It was also the 80’s, plenty of unlocked doors.


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[Moony]

It was also the 80’s, plenty of unlocked doors.


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Risky leaving your door unlocked with sexual deviates around

 

[Spinnaker]

Came across the below article:

“Paul Ferguson (retired WAPOL) says it was as though Sarah had vanished into thin air”

Article also mentions that “Police know that Sarah was waiting for her cab because she was spotted by two men in a car that had stopped for a red light at the intersection of Stirling Hwy and Stirling Rd - one of the men commented to his friend that he did not think it was safe for a woman to be alone because of recent high profile sex attacks in area”

Call was placed for cab at 2.06am and 8 minutes later when taxi turned up
she had vanished.

What high profile sex attacks could the men have been referring to - must have made the news for them to have been aware of them?

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[Kambo]

Deleted

 

[Kambo]

Came across the below article:

“Paul Ferguson (retired WAPOL) says it was as though Sarah had vanished into thin air”

Article also mentions that “Police know that Sarah was waiting for her cab because she was spotted by two men in a car that had stopped for a red light at the intersection of Stirling Hwy and Stirling Rd - one of the men commented to his friend that he did not think it was safe for a woman to be alone because of recent high profile sex attacks in area”

Call was placed for cab at 2.06am and 8 minutes later when taxi turned up
she had vanished.

What high profile sex attacks could the men have been referring to - must have made the news for them to have been aware of them?

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Is it possible the accused was 1 of these 2 men who reported seeing her.


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[lampformypath]

Came across the below article:

“Paul Ferguson (retired WAPOL) says it was as though Sarah had vanished into thin air”

Article also mentions that “Police know that Sarah was waiting for her cab because she was spotted by two men in a car that had stopped for a red light at the intersection of Stirling Hwy and Stirling Rd - one of the men commented to his friend that he did not think it was safe for a woman to be alone because of recent high profile sex attacks in area”

Call was placed for cab at 2.06am and 8 minutes later when taxi turned up
she had vanished.

What high profile sex attacks could the men have been referring to - must have made the news for them to have been aware of them?

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Thanks for that Spinnaker. When you reread these reports things seem to hit you as if you hadn't seen them ever before, but you know you read them. That's why new fresh eyes looking at cold cases come up with new results (that and new advanced methods of DNA etc. of course). What I thought was so heart-breaking in this article is the photo of Sarah as a child. I have never seen that photo before. Darling precious little girl.

 

[Spinnaker]

Is it possible the accused was 1 of these 2 men who reported seeing her.


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Good question Kambo.

I've just checked dates for high profile attacks and can't see any just prior to Jan 27, 1996. KK was almost a year earlier on February 12, 1995.

Couple of questions come to mind - did these men actually see SS or perhaps where they involved?