Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #20

[Frequant Flyer]

Came across the below article:

“Paul Ferguson (retired WAPOL) says it was as though Sarah had vanished into thin air”

Article also mentions that “Police know that Sarah was waiting for her cab because she was spotted by two men in a car that had stopped for a red light at the intersection of Stirling Hwy and Stirling Rd - one of the men commented to his friend that he did not think it was safe for a woman to be alone because of recent high profile sex attacks in area”

Call was placed for cab at 2.06am and 8 minutes later when taxi turned up
she had vanished.

What high profile sex attacks could the men have been referring to - must have made the news for them to have been aware of them?

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The eight minute time frame is interesting in that it is a short time to disappear without a fuss

The fake cab is plausable or accepting a lift from someone known , it would be interesting to know what side of stirling highway she was on because on the school , church side it was isolated, if I recall correctly it was like a park surroundings around the church

 

[Akai]

Came across the below article:

“Paul Ferguson (retired WAPOL) says it was as though Sarah had vanished into thin air”

Article also mentions that “Police know that Sarah was waiting for her cab because she was spotted by two men in a car that had stopped for a red light at the intersection of Stirling Hwy and Stirling Rd - one of the men commented to his friend that he did not think it was safe for a woman to be alone because of recent high profile sex attacks in area”

Call was placed for cab at 2.06am and 8 minutes later when taxi turned up
she had vanished.

What high profile sex attacks could the men have been referring to - must have made the news for them to have been aware of them?

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The Crimestoppers site has her calling the taxi at 2:06am and it turning up three minutes later. (Some media reports say three minutes as well, but they could just have gotten that from the Crimestoppers website so haven't linked.)

https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/sarah-ellen-spiers/

Always thought three minutes was a ridiculously miniscule amount of time for a forced abduction or luring of a young woman to take place. Three or eight minutes is a fair bit of a difference to how the attack may have happened IMO.


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[Akai]

Is it possible the accused was 1 of these 2 men who reported seeing her.


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From the article, the two men were in a car together, stopped at a red light. Then as the light turned green they saw in the rearview mirror a car behind them that seemed to slow as it got to her. They went through the intersection and the other car didn't follow them (implying it stopped where Sarah was). That was also the reconstruction in the CIA episode.

Based on this IMO it's unlikely one of those men had anything to do with the abduction because the other would have had to know about it.


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[Spinnaker]

The Crimestoppers site has her calling the taxi at 2:06am and it turning up three minutes later. (Some media reports say three minutes as well, but they could just have gotten that from the Crimestoppers website so haven't linked.)

https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/sarah-ellen-spiers/

Always thought three minutes was a ridiculously miniscule amount of time for a forced abduction or luring of a young woman to take place. Three or eight minutes is a fair bit of a difference to how the attack may have happened IMO.


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Crime Stoppers also mentions 3 men in car and article above says 2.

So what is correct 3 minutes or 8 minutes, 2 men or 3 men?

 

[Akai]

Crime Stoppers also mentions 3 men in car and article above says 2.

So what is correct 3 minutes or 8 minutes, 2 men or 3 men?

I think the CIA reconstruction of the night Sarah went missing had three men in the car, too.

They're weird, those inconsistencies. They aren't open to interpretation, but clear facts. Shouldn't be hard to confirm one way or another.


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[Spinnaker]

The eight minute time frame is interesting in that it is a short time to disappear without a fuss

The fake cab is plausable or accepting a lift from someone known , it would be interesting to know what side of stirling highway she was on because on the school , church side it was isolated, if I recall correctly it was like a park surroundings around the church

I remember reading somewhere that the witnesses in the car mentioned she crossed over to the centre island of the road. Sorry I don't have link.

 

[Spinnaker]

I think the CIA reconstruction of the night Sarah went missing had three men in the car, too.

They're weird, those inconsistencies. They aren't open to interpretation, but clear facts. Shouldn't be hard to confirm one way or another.


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Below WAPOL media release is not specific with times:

https://www.police.wa.gov.au/Media-Centre/Media-Releases/2035-Operation-Macro--further-charge

 

[Akai]

Below WAPOL media release is not specific with times:

https://www.police.wa.gov.au/Media-Centre/Media-Releases/2035-Operation-Macro--further-charge

Now that's even weirder. How would giving the timeframe cause any problems?

This is so confusing. Even the supposedly clearest points of information are inconsistent.


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[no name]

Widely reported that they saw her leaning up against a bollard at the front of BC The Body club so she crossed Stirling Rd and was waiting on the North East side of the intersection.
Bunnie WS member and also ex Swan Taxi employee who pulled the call logs for the police has stated clearly that the time frame was 3 mins and she has explained the discrepancies in the reporting of the times also. You can check her comments to get the full story on that.

 

[Frequant Flyer]

I remember reading somewhere that the witnesses in the car mentioned she crossed over to the centre island of the road. Sorry I don't have link.

That would suggest she was crossing the road , but to what side , there is also a chance it was not her at all who was seen ,

The whole witnesses in car seems strange to me , they see someone on a corner , then assume the next car was her cab , why assume she was catching a cab , she could have walking home for all they would know , unless they had offered her a lift themselves and were told a cab was coming

 

[Akai]

Widely reported that they saw her leaning up against a bollard at the front of BC The Body club so she crossed Stirling Rd and was waiting on the North East side of the intersection.
Bunnie WS member and also ex Swan Taxi employee who pulled the call logs for the police has stated clearly that the time frame was 3 mins and she has explained the discrepancies in the reporting of the times also. You can check her comments to get the full story on that.

Thank you.


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[Frequant Flyer]

Widely reported that they saw her leaning up against a bollard at the front of BC The Body club so she crossed Stirling Rd and was waiting on the North East side of the intersection.
Bunnie WS member and also ex Swan Taxi employee who pulled the call logs for the police has stated clearly that the time frame was 3 mins and she has explained the discrepancies in the reporting of the times also. You can check her comments to get the full story on that.

If 3 minutes is correct then no way was she abducted , she would have to willingly get into a car in that period

 

[Spinnaker]

Widely reported that they saw her leaning up against a bollard at the front of BC The Body club so she crossed Stirling Rd and was waiting on the North East side of the intersection.
Bunnie WS member and also ex Swan Taxi employee who pulled the call logs for the police has stated clearly that the time frame was 3 mins and she has explained the discrepancies in the reporting of the times also. You can check her comments to get the full story on that.

Thanks noname for clarifying where she was standing. Noted the 3 minutes, however, I don't understand how an abduction can occur in 3 minutes - the timings and scenario has always seemed weird to me.

 

[Eaglette]

There are more inconsistencies with MSM - the actual car that slowed down after SS - did it turn off at the lights- or did it turn off its lights?

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/p...nce-and-suspected-murder-20180131-h0rnw4.html

1) The man later told police the car had appeared to turn its lights off, and he assumed it was Sarah's taxi.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/the-...-from-a-claremont-street-corner-ng-b88337785z

2) [FONT=&amp]When the lights turned green and the men drove off, the driver noticed in his rear-view mirror another car approaching the intersection from behind him.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]That car appeared to turn off at the lights and the man assumed it was Sarah’s taxi arriving to pick her up.[/FONT]

I hope they get it correct in the Affidavits FFS. Must be 100% cross checked (with new eyes). IMO

 

[Spinnaker]

There are more inconsistencies with MSM - the actual car that slowed down after SS - did it turn off at the lights- or did it turn off its lights?

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/p...nce-and-suspected-murder-20180131-h0rnw4.html

1) The man later told police the car had appeared to turn its lights off, and he assumed it was Sarah's taxi.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/the-...-from-a-claremont-street-corner-ng-b88337785z

2) [FONT=&amp]When the lights turned green and the men drove off, the driver noticed in his rear-view mirror another car approaching the intersection from behind him.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]That car appeared to turn off at the lights and the man assumed it was Sarah’s taxi arriving to pick her up.[/FONT]


I hope they get it correct in the Affidavits FFS.

Assuming the girl seen by the car of three guys was SS, then she would have already have rung her taxi - there goes at least one minute. We then have only two minutes before actual taxi arrives. Very slim timeframe!

 

[Akai]

If 3 minutes is correct then no way was she abducted , she would have to willingly get into a car in that period

That's what I've always thought. The three minutes has to incorporate:

- Sarah crossing the road/walking away from the phone box
- The men in the car seeing her, the lights turning green and them going through the intersection and being out of sight
- Sarah getting into the car
- The taxi turning up and no trace of anyone already

In total I reckon that leaves two minutes to get Sarah into the car, maybe slightly less depending on the timing of the lights and the taxi's approach. If it was an abduction by force surely the taxi would have arrived before the perpetrator was able to get her in the car and drive off?

(Also, if the car seen by the men was not the CSK then that means even less time.)

I also think an abduction by force in that scenario is way too risky. A car has just gone past, no way of knowing if it will circle back. No way of knowing when another car will appear. Makes much more sense to offer a lift or something and then if it doesn't work nobody will be any the wiser.

This is especially so IMO if this was the CSK's first (and it appears to be). Methods probably weren't perfected, so an abduction by force could more easily go wrong.


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[Spinnaker]

That's what I've always thought. The three minutes has to incorporate:

- Sarah crossing the road/walking away from the phone box
- The men in the car seeing her, the lights turning green and them going through the intersection and being out of sight
- Sarah getting into the car
- The taxi turning up and no trace of anyone already

In total I reckon that leaves two minutes to get Sarah into the car, maybe slightly less depending on the timing of the lights and the taxi's approach. If it was an abduction by force surely the taxi would have arrived before the perpetrator was able to get her in the car and drive off?

(Also, if the car seen by the men was not the CSK then that means even less time.)

I also think an abduction by force in that scenario is way too risky. A car has just gone past, no way of knowing if it will circle back. No way of knowing when another car will appear. Makes much more sense to offer a lift or something and then if it doesn't work nobody will be any the wiser.

This is especially so IMO if this was the CSK's first (and it appears to be). Methods probably weren't perfected, so an abduction by force could more easily go wrong.


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Seems quite likely Akai - Alleged CSK would have needed to be quite nearby to pull this off. Did he perhaps stalk/follow SS?

Other alternative was that it was a 'fake' taxi - there is a strong 'taxi theme' associated with this case. SS thought she was getting into her taxi.

 

[Spinnaker]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cold case homicide detectives want to find a 1992 white Toyota Camry station wagon - could the [/FONT]Toyota Camry
linked to SS have been dressed up as a taxi?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-...n-sarah-spiers-cold-case-murder-probe/9382290

Photo of a 1992 Toyota Camry taken off internet.

 

[Akai]

Seems quite likely Akai - Alleged CSK would have needed to be quite nearby to pull this off. Did he perhaps stalk/follow SS?

Other alternative was that it was a 'fake' taxi - there is a strong 'taxi theme' associated with this case. SS thought she was getting into her taxi.

Yes, I see we posted similar thoughts at the same time.

You make an excellent point about the CSK having to be nearby. I think also to achieve such a successful abduction in such a short timeframe there's a fair chance the CSK must have been watching in advance. Just driving along seeing a woman by the side of the road and a car just up ahead - that's a massive coincidence and a huge risk to take.

I'm not personally sold on the taxi idea (unless when the guys said they saw lights go out they meant the attachment at the top of the car where a taxi's light is on, but I haven't seen that stated conclusively). I personally believe that the CSK had had contact with SS previously, whether that night or another time, and that's why she trusted the person enough to get in the car.

Obviously JMO.


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[Frequant Flyer]

Has it ever been considered SS never left Claremont at all , and never got into a car
Stalking on foot would not be so noticeable, in a car I think Kerb crawling would have been
Im not saying that she was not removed at a later date , but why did she have to get in a car at all .... Maybe the car was parked in the church and not being driven
The time frame to get someone into a car unwillingly seems unlikely , this is all guess work , but maybe the car scenario makes no sense because it never happened