Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #20

[DRT]

Came across the below article:

“Paul Ferguson (retired WAPOL) says it was as though Sarah had vanished into thin air”

Article also mentions that “Police know that Sarah was waiting for her cab because she was spotted by two men in a car that had stopped for a red light at the intersection of Stirling Hwy and Stirling Rd - one of the men commented to his friend that he did not think it was safe for a woman to be alone because of recent high profile sex attacks in area”

Call was placed for cab at 2.06am and 8 minutes later when taxi turned up
she had vanished.

What high profile sex attacks could the men have been referring to - must have made the news for them to have been aware of them?

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Article removed by me.
There were several attacks aside from the KK attack. They are summarised here.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-3&p=12177584#post12177584

 

[Spinnaker]

Article removed by me.
There were several attacks aside from the KK attack. They are summarised here.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-3&p=12177584#post12177584

If you check dates though - there are only 2 listed in previous year (1995) to the the disappearance of SS, the KK attack and the Claremont Golf course attack.

The KK attack was almost a year before SS went missing and the Claremont Golf course attack did not make MSM.

Therefore how did they know that there were high profile attacks in the area? Just a thought, however there are quite a few inaccuracies in the article - creative licence perhaps!

 

[meticulously]

Article removed by me.
There were several attacks aside from the KK attack. They are summarised here.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-3&p=12177584#post12177584

What is the post number and date please ?
The link takes me to the last page of thread 3

 

[Frequant Flyer]

As nobody knows what happened with any of these crimes I'm considering a different approach to all of it

What if there were no abductions as such ... People were obviously moved later ... But if as a lot seem to believe Claremont is the connection , it is possible the crimes had to take place in Claremont...

As Annalise suggested earlier a big guy called move a small girl a long way in three minutes .... Even more so if he knew exactly where he was going

It could be there was no stalking , no intended victim , just whoever was around a certain spot at the right time to take advantage of it

I Know this is far less complicated than most theories , but that's why I like it

I cannot see how a guy who is described as ordinary , nothing special , not memorable etc etc . Picked up or lined up girls in a pub , club situation , from all accounts I have read from those who know him he did Not have a lot going for him in personality or looks

 

[ESH]

Has it ever been considered SS never left Claremont at all , and never got into a car
Stalking on foot would not be so noticeable, in a car I think Kerb crawling would have been
Im not saying that she was not removed at a later date , but why did she have to get in a car at all .... Maybe the car was parked in the church and not being driven
The time frame to get someone into a car unwillingly seems unlikely , this is all guess work , but maybe the car scenario makes no sense because it never happened

Well guess thats totally plausible. IIRC the Birnies did this to at least one of their victims in broad daylight, in the middle of the city.

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[Spinnaker]

What is the post number and date please ?
The link takes me to the last page of thread 3

Met I managed to see on my computer - Thread #3 Post by Bart #49

 

[Akai]

If the accused did try to entice or trick the three ladies into his car, there will probably be other’s who he wasn’t successful in luring. Others who survived that are now possible witnesses.

Agree, but I think there might be problems actually linking them to the CSK as witnesses.

I think it's a fair deduction that at least some of the reports police have about incidents in Claremont around the CSK time are irrelevant. I don't know how it might be presented which ones are relevant and which ones aren't in a manner that stands up to scrutiny.

If a person was able to provide a clear enough description of the person (which would be the most likely way to link them for evidentiary purposes absent anything else forensic) back then or if there were multiple reports that came up with similar descriptions, I imagine it could be argued that police should have identified a suspect who fit that physical profile.

But the suspects police fixated on were quite different in appearance.

Fair enough, police had less to determine relevance back then than they do now with an accused on whom to focus, but if they go back and pick out reports that have a similar description to the CSK accused they'd still have to be pretty clear identifiers.

If people have come forward since BRE's arrest and identified him, there is an argument about the power of suggestion because his face was prominent in the media. Adrian Bayley had one of his convictions overturned on this basis: http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-13/adrian-bayley-wins-appeal-against-rape-conviction/7624054

So I agree there may be other events that are connected (whether the women were lured or taken by force), but I don't think we will hear about most of them, if any of them.


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[Spinnaker]

I know on this site there has been the debate of whether the girls got into the car or if they were abducted. I have seen several articles where it seems to indicate they got into the car maybe because CG was seen talking to the occupant of a car. There was also talk of fake taxis driving around the area.

"PAUL FERGUSON: Got into the wrong car and it cost them their lives. The answer is out there. Someone who is listening has the answer."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/a/28471453/transcript-catching-the-claremont-killer/

Thanks for the link DRT - the below comment is also interesting:

[FONT=&quot]PAUL FERGUSON: Early in the disappearance of Jane Rimmer, the coincidence, or the links between Jane and Sarah were quite strong. And the team were very, very comfortable they were looking at the same offender responsible for both girls' disappearance.[/FONT]

 

[Frequant Flyer]

Further to my previous post , I'm basing my description on BRE on what I have read , I don't know him to base it on anything else

If he was as ordinary as described he would have bombed out in the pick up game a lot more than he succeeded , he would have been known to women in the pubs clubs etc , they would notice boring annoying someone else

I don't imagine to many women got dressed up to go to Claremont to meet Mr Ordinary... I just cannot see him as a pick up guy ... And that rules out him having known them to give them a lift

Even if he could walk the walk and talk the talk , he still would have been known , for opposite reasons , and I'm sure the local women would have quizzed about this

 

[Spinnaker]

West Australian - Feb 23, 2018

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[Annalise]

“Lawyers for the prosecution Carmel Barbagallo argued the case needed to be adjourned so that documents relating to the murder charge for Ms Spiers and previous information could be collated and made available to all parties.

Mr Edwards’ defence lawyer Genevieve Cleary agreed adjournment until July 25 was “eminently suitable” so they could go over all the relevant information.”


There will be so much information for the BRE’s defence team to go over. Does this mean that BRE has to go through it all too. If so this should keep him extremely busy until next court hearing. MOO

 

[Frequant Flyer]

https://www.communitynews.com.au/western-suburbs-weekly/news/claremont-serial-killings-no-plea-bradley-robert-edwards-case-adjourned-committal-hearing


“Lawyers for the prosecution Carmel Barbagallo argued the case needed to be adjourned so that documents relating to the murder charge for Ms Spiers and previous information could be collated and made available to all parties.

Mr Edwards’ defence lawyer Genevieve Cleary agreed adjournment until July 25 was “eminently suitable” so they could go over all the relevant information.”


There will be so much information for the BRE’s defence team to go over. Does this mean that BRE has to go through it all too. If so this should keep him extremely busy until next court hearing. MOO

I doubt he would have to go through it himself , a lot would be legal blurb he wouldn't understand, a lot will be repeating itself ... His legal team will certainly go over what is considered relevant with him

 

[Annalise]

I doubt he would have to go through it himself , a lot would be legal blurb he wouldn't understand, a lot will be repeating itself ... His legal team will certainly go over what is considered relevant with him

Thank you Frequent Flyer - I have visions of there being so much to go over that there won’t be enough time and the case will be put on hold for another few months. Sounds very complicated.

 

[milamber182]

As nobody knows what happened with any of these crimes I'm considering a different approach to all of it

What if there were no abductions as such ... People were obviously moved later ... But if as a lot seem to believe Claremont is the connection , it is possible the crimes had to take place in Claremont...

As Annalise suggested earlier a big guy called move a small girl a long way in three minutes .... Even more so if he knew exactly where he was going

It could be there was no stalking , no intended victim , just whoever was around a certain spot at the right time to take advantage of it

I Know this is far less complicated than most theories , but that's why I like it

I cannot see how a guy who is described as ordinary , nothing special , not memorable etc etc . Picked up or lined up girls in a pub , club situation , from all accounts I have read from those who know him he did Not have a lot going for him in personality or looks

Aren't sociopaths masters of putting on a good mask in public? A bit of confidence, willingness to start talking and cool, calm demeanor, a funny joke here and there is all a person (particuarly a man) needs to get a woman's attention, at least initially.

 

[no name]

There has to be something in this :
The Post 25th Oct 2002
I saw Sarah too: witness backs taxi driver
The Post. Bret Christian. 2005.10.02
A Jolimont man has backed up the story of taxi driver Steven Ross who says he took Sarah Spiers to South Perth on the morning before she disappeared. RSMB

Sarah may have known the person offering a lift. As discussed before she may have been with the perp the night before in taxi to the Windsor Hotel. Was supposedly seen with a tall dark haired guy in the foyer of the apartment block where she lived. If this was Sarah and she was with CSK on the morning of Australia Day 1996 then perhaps he was waiting for her and offered her a lift.

I have 2 issues with there being something in this.
Firstly, the only thing the guy backed up that Steven Ross said was covered in the very first paragraph, that he had dropped Sarah where he said he did the previous night, in South Perth. The landlord claims he saw her in South Perth the following morning. There was nothing backing up anything else at all in their stories & there is no claims that backed up anything about the men she was supposedly with.
Not detailed in that article that Bret Christian would have been well aware of when he wrote it, & which we have discussed recently, it that the descriptions of the 2 men dont match.
SR: well dressed, tall, good looking, blonde man.
Mr Boudeville: tall, skinny, dark hair with curls at the back.

The second issue I have is that situation as told by Ross, isnt in that article either but it was detailed in others. The guy in his cab originally wanted to get out with the drunk girl in Dalkeith & he talked him out of it. Why then did he just allow him to push Sarah out, leaving the guy with her in South Perth when nothings open at that time of night. Makes no sense. Either she was happy to have him get out with her or SR did nothing to ensure that she was ok with it. Regardless, she was alive and well the following day and theres far more to indicate they were different men than the same man.
I know Ive written all this before but Im unsure if it was posted in the thread so I'll continue.
Id be interested to know exactly when this report was made to police & wonder if this Mr Boudeville either saw the MM video himself or knew of it prior to making this report. His description of the man is remarkably similar to that of MM. Or for a spanner in the works, even moreso matching Richard Dorrough. He died claiming he killed three women, who was the 3rd? Its possible he was passing through at the time of either of the first 2 murders. Just MO.

 

[no name]

There will be so much information for the BRE’s defence team to go over. Does this mean that BRE has to go through it all too. If so this should keep him extremely busy until next court hearing. MOO

Not only for them to go over, they then have to prepare a defence and provide all their own documents back to the prosecution.
Sad to say that for many people, this would all be lost on them and they'd leave it in the hands of their lawyers. Not me, Id be over it, under it & all up inside it & wouldnt put it down till I had it covered. Then Id start again. Im.sure BRE will be taking a fair interest too.

 

[Annalise]

I have 2 issues with there being something in this.
Firstly, the only thing the guy backed up that Steven Ross said was covered in the very first paragraph, that he had dropped Sarah where he said he did the previous night, in South Perth. The landlord claims he saw her in South Perth the following morning. There was nothing backing up anything else at all in their stories & there is no claims that backed up anything about the men she was supposedly with.
Not detailed in that article that Bret Christian would have been well aware of when he wrote it, & which we have discussed recently, it that the descriptions of the 2 men dont match.
SR: well dressed, tall, good looking, blonde man.
Mr Boudeville: tall, skinny, dark hair with curls at the back.

The second issue I have is that situation as told by Ross, isnt in that article either but it was detailed in others. The guy in his cab originally wanted to get out with the drunk girl in Dalkeith & he talked him out of it. Why then did he just allow him to push Sarah out, leaving the guy with her in South Perth when nothings open at that time of night. Makes no sense. Either she was happy to have him get out with her or SR did nothing to ensure that she was ok with it. Regardless, she was alive and well the following day and theres far more to indicate they were different men than the same man.
I know Ive written all this before but Im unsure if it was posted in the thread so I'll continue.
Id be interested to know exactly when this report was made to police & wonder if this Mr Boudeville either saw the MM video himself or knew of it prior to making this report. His description of the man is remarkably similar to that of MM. Or for a spanner in the works, even moreso matching Richard Dorrough. He died claiming he killed three women, who was the 3rd? Its possible he was passing through at the time of either of the first 2 murders. Just MO.

No name - it will be interesting to see if this will be brought up in court. It wasn’t so much that Stephen Ross told the police about the taxi ride to the Windsor Hotel but Mr Boudeville saying he saw Sarah on the morning of Australia Day 1996. Yes the descriptions of the men were different. It has never been reported what the police thought of Ross and Boudeville’s stories. MOO

 

[no name]

I think if we see this trial actually started this year, they're doing well.

 

[Annalise]

Not only for them to go over, they then have to prepare a defence and provide all their own documents back to the prosecution.
Sad to say that for many people, this would all be lost on them and they'd leave it in the hands of their lawyers. Not me, Id be over it, under it & all up inside it & wouldnt put it down till I had it covered. Then Id start again. Im.sure BRE will be taking a fair interest too.

no name - I’m pretty sure BRE will be all over it as well. MOO

 

[no name]

Thank you Frequent Flyer have visions of there being so much to go over that there won’t be enough time and the case will be put on hold for another few months. Sounds very complicated.

I cant wait for all the mistakes in reporting to start flying once a trial starts. Anyone got a few months spare to sit in and report back accurately?