Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #4

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
This article makes mention of Quigley wanting a coronial inquest, also that the Spiers family seem to be objecting to one under the beleif the case is moving forward during the start of 2015.

Very strange case.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/opi...d/news-story/bbaa9c3933d467b673ea045a54d43830

Opinion: Has the Claremont serial killer trail really gone cold?

January 19, 2015 10:05am
JOHN FLINTPerthNow

Sarah Spiers, Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon all disappeared in similar circumstances from Claremont.
HAS the trail really gone cold in Australia’s biggest crime investigation, the Claremont serial killings?

WA Police maintain the case is solvable despite the significant passage of time – 19 years since the first girl, Sarah Spiers, vanished – and the millions of man-hours invested by detectives here, by experts from overseas, and in many painstaking reviews.

The fact there is no indication of a coronial inquiry on the horizon suggests senior police don’t think they’ve hit a brick wall. As an outsider, it’s hard to gauge just how hot, cold or luke warm the trail has gone, because Operation Macro is itself a brick wall.

Media inquiries solicit the same response: “Claremont (Macro) is an ongoing investigation, hence inquiries will continue to be made. WA Police remain committed to resolving these and other significant offences.”

I am not complaining. The need to maintain operational security is paramount, though it does provide a convenient screen to all questions on the subject. I do like the idea of the perpetrator or perpetrators not knowing how close their hunters are behind them. It might be better for them to think, almost 20 years on, that they’re never going to be caught, when, in fact, the net is closing. Wishful thinking? I pray not.

Two weeks ago, shadow attorney general John Quigley suggested it was perhaps time to pass the files to the WA Coroner for an inquest. Although it’s not the purpose of an inquest to investigate and solve crimes, they’ve triggered major breakthroughs in the past, most notably in the Daniel Morcombe investigation.

Other Stories

The Dockers’ ugly truth revealed
The Dockers’ ugly truth revealed
Perth suburbs like a scene from The Birds
Perth suburbs like a scene from The Birds
Why I wasn’t cheering for Grant
Why I wasn’t cheering for Grant

Mr Quigley said “time and time again in Australia, coronial inquests have shaken out new evidence”.

Unsurprisingly, Bruce Morcombe, Daniel’s father, is a strong advocate of inquests in such difficult cases.

WA Attorney General Michael Mischin this week responded: “The Commissioner of Police is best placed to comment on the advisability and utility of a coronial inquest – for example, whether it may impede or compromise police inquiries.”

At this stage, WA Police haven’t offered a view on whether an inquest would help or hinder.


But the feedback, at least from the Spiers family, was opposed to interfering with the work being done by the special crime squad at this time.

The families, who crave justice the most, receive updates from detectives on the direction and progress of the investigation. If they believe police are on the right path, who is anyone to disagree?

That isn’t to say that an inquest should be put off forever. No stone should be left unturned and no reputations or sensitivities are holier than solving these murders.

On the issue of sensitivities, the Taxi Industry Forum of WA reacted badly to our article two weeks ago about a suspicious taxi – with its headlights off – seen in the early hours of a morning, around the time Ciara Glennon vanished in 1997, very close to the isolated area where her body was found three weeks later.

The Taxi Industry Forum preciously complained that “many decent hardworking taxi drivers will find these new unsubstantiated revelations a further smirch on their characters and the noble service they provide the community”. It said many drivers were still hurting from being “unfairly targeted by police” at the beginning of Operation Macro.

Yet detectives uncovered many illegal taxi drivers in that period. The logical police scrutiny wasn’t a slur on all taxi drivers then, and ongoing inquiries certainly don’t reflect on those driving today.

The industry, like any employing thousands, has its rotten apples. Look no further than the cabbie convicted last year of sexually abusing five wheelchair-bound passengers.

In the Claremont cases, the reputations of police, taxi drivers, journalists or any individual, matter little next to the need to catch a serial killer.

john.flint@news.com.au
 
This is news to me. Do you have an article that backs this up? I vaguely recall he was ruled out because he was in jail or living somewhere else. If he was living in Claremont there would have been a lot more discussion around him. He wouldn't have got let into CBV.

No i dont i was hoping someone could confirm this, i can find no mention of him having lived in WA, but those same years around the CSK appear to have no timeline which is odd.. The only reference to Adrian Bayley living in Perth is that forum post I posted. Can you find anything that confirms he was not in Perth?
 
I cant find anything indicating that Bayley was ever living in Claremont. He seems to have been in Perth for a time, but from everything I can see he has spent most of his life in Melbourne.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...ht-other-attacks/story-fni0fee2-1226700959496
A nation-wide investigation into unsolved sex crimes has used Bayley's DNA to cross-match with samples taken and stored.

Following a major internal review, police have even investigated an information report linking Bayley with the Claremont killings, having lived in Perth, but he was eliminated as a suspect.


Bayley is a vicious who was working his way towards murder, without too much getting in his way. He left plenty of evidence everywhere, if people were looking for it. Many of his victims were prostitutes or backpackers. Not given the highest priority.
 
Does anyone have any more info on what those witnesses can remember of the man in the White Station Wagon offering lifts? Assuming that it isn't the ex-police officer who came under the radar, and that it’s someone new/different who was offering these lifts.

Was this car a definite Telstra/Telecom vehicle? Or did it just look like one?

What hair colour and style did he have?

Did he say or do anything untoward?

Where the lifts a successful drop off? Or where they declinations?

Should there have been another Telstra worker frequenting these establishments, I think these points are important.
 
Does anyone have any more info on what those witnesses can remember of the man in the White Station Wagon offering lifts? Assuming that it isn't the ex-police officer who came under the radar, and that it’s someone new/different who was offering these lifts.

Was this car a definite Telstra/Telecom vehicle? Or did it just look like one?

What hair colour and style did he have?

Did he say or do anything untoward?

Where the lifts a successful drop off? Or where they declinations?

Should there have been another Telstra worker frequenting these establishments, I think these points are important.

Apart from being 'blond' , having 'bobbed hair' and claiming to be 'the son of a police officer' not much else..
 
In case anyone is wondering, the police officer that died in a traffic accident in Kalamunda was Stephen R KNIGHT (Son of copper Wayne KNIGHT) Died 1st June 1993 9am, hit by a car driven by a heroin addict travelling down Gooseberry Hill Rd. Mr Knight was using a hand held radar to check vehicle speeds, and was walking out into the middle of the road to stop the cars, the druggie ploughed straight into him then took off IIRC. I used to catch the bus to school 500 meters from where he was killed, I was there the day he died, caught the bus an hour before it happened. A friend of mines mother was a witness. I have to say, it was partially the cops fault, because I have another friend who nearly hit him on the exact day he died, remembers giving him a mouthful for jumping in front of him ... unless it was another cop they are talking about. Can't be this guy anyway, he definitely died in 1993, I can confirm.
 
In case anyone is wondering, the police officer that died in a traffic accident in Kalamunda was Stephen R KNIGHT (Son of copper Wayne KNIGHT) Died 1st June 1993 9am, hit by a car driven by a heroin addict travelling down Gooseberry Hill Rd. Mr Knight was using a hand held radar to check vehicle speeds, and was walking out into the middle of the road to stop the cars, the druggie ploughed straight into him then took off IIRC. I used to catch the bus to school 500 meters from where he was killed, I was there the day he died, caught the bus an hour before it happened. A friend of mines mother was a witness. I have to say, it was partially the cops fault, because I have another friend who nearly hit him on the exact day he died, remembers giving him a mouthful for jumping in front of him ... unless it was another cop they are talking about. Can't be this guy anyway, he definitely died in 1993, I can confirm.

Here is the link to the National Police Honour Roll:
http://www.npm.org.au/knight

You are right, could not possibly be him, as he was killed in 1993.

There are a number of other officers killed during and after 1998, but not in Kalamunda.
 
Apart from being 'blond' , having 'bobbed hair' and claiming to be 'the son of a police officer' not much else..

That has nothing to do with a Holden Station Wagon. Camille MacLean was approached on St Quentins Ave by a man on foot the night before Ciara went missing.
 
That has nothing to do with a Holden Station Wagon. Camille MacLean was approached on St Quentins Ave by a man on foot the night before Ciara went missing.

Well the guy I am talking about came from a legitimate newspaper source. The guy you must be talking about is the guy backed up by a random account with absolutely no media source other than the word of someone on big footy? Can ypu atleast clarify because if there was another guy in the area asking people for lifts then it means that at the time two people were offering lifts, your guy, and 'the Police officers son' not to mention Lance Williams makes three.
 
Here is the link to the National Police Honour Roll:
http://www.npm.org.au/knight

You are right, could not possibly be him, as he was killed in 1993.

There are a number of other officers killed during and after 1998, but not in Kalamunda.

I already knew the years didnt align, it was a rumour as I said. Just never knew the Kalamunda Police Officers name.
 
I am aware of that article. My question was relating to the specifics of the vehicle approaches in White Commodore Wagons with Telecom/Telstra logos.
 
Can anyone provide a link, page number to the telecom vehicle being mentioned on big footy?
 
I've scrubbed the BigFooty forums GreenDevil, the only mention of a StationWagon is from that Post article that talks about how one of the bus stop witnesses was so good at distinguishing from Fords and Holdens.

I think it's quite possible there never was a Telecom Logo on the side of the vehicles that those witnesses saw.

The Karrakatta rape also quoted the light coloured panel van as being a "commercial vehicle" and she also mistook the clothes line for "electrical flex". Maybe there were other items in the back of this panel van that made her think it was some sort of telecommuncations or electricians van. She would have been in the back for a good 3 or 4 minutes. Enough to feel around or hear things rolling around in shelves etc.
 
I've scrubbed the BigFooty forums GreenDevil, the only mention of a StationWagon is from that Post article that talks about how one of the bus stop witnesses was so good at distinguishing from Fords and Holdens.

I think it's quite possible there never was a Telecom Logo on the side of the vehicles that those witnesses saw.

The Karrakatta rape also quoted the light coloured panel van as being a "commercial vehicle" and she also mistook the clothes line for "electrical flex". Maybe there were other items in the back of this panel van that made her think it was some sort of telecommuncations or electricians van. She would have been in the back for a good 3 or 4 minutes. Enough to feel around or hear things rolling around in shelves etc.

Why are you pushing the telstra angle so much? Where is your source to even make you start looking for this telstra lookalike vehicle?

The whole telstra thing appears to have come from the Karrakatta victim thinking she was tied up with electrical flex/wire, later determined to be 'washing line' and also the sighting of the VS commodore vehicle, which may or may not have been witnessed by oneof the three teenagers. This has since been suggested to be a lie and the white VS commodore was not sighted. Police still beleive it was sighted.

Also the fact they determined a VS was responsible from fibres found of Jane. People have it assumed it MAY or COULD have been a telstra vehicle.

The commercial Van was probably a panel van.

Who are these witnesses who saw Telstra? Becauae the witnesses you quoted only saw a white car, no other insignia, and its now been suggested by Frankie in this very thread that the sighting may have been fabricated by Police.

<modsnip>

The witness offering lifts was reported in the media as claiming to be the 'the son of a police officer'
 
Just after the key period of the murders, the Police made a local appeal to women in the area who had been approached by males in vehicles within the Claremont area. A late model White Commodore Station Wagon was reported numerous times by different women. The descriptions of these vehicles varied, but were consistent with a Telecom/Telstra vehicle. At the time the organisation was making a transition between those two names. From what I understand, the Police never identified this male. They did however get another suspect from some other source, I assume an informant. This new suspect "Telecom man" happened to work for Telstra and drove their vehicles at the time. This must have consolidated their case against him warranting further investigations.

I believe that the person reported to be offering lifts in the Claremont area was not the "Telecom man" suspect that the Police had, rather an unknown person who the Police never identified.

<modsnip>

I believe this comment made by GreenDevil is crucial to identifying the person responsible for these crimes:

However they received reports that a woman was asked if they needed a lift by a person driving the same type of car that the company he worked for used. Macro know JM worked for that company during the key period of 1996-97. There was also reports from one of their projects that a male person driving the same type of company vehicle and offered someone a lift and made unwanted advances towards them etc.
 
Just after the key period of the murders, the Police made a local appeal to women in the area who had been approached by males in vehicles within the Claremont area. A late model White Commodore Station Wagon was reported numerous times by different women. The descriptions of these vehicles varied, but were consistent with a Telecom/Telstra vehicle. At the time the organisation was making a transition between those two names. From what I understand, the Police never identified this male. They did however get another suspect from some other source, I assume an informant. This new suspect "Telecom man" happened to work for Telstra and drove their vehicles at the time. This must have consolidated their case against him warranting further investigations.

I believe that the person reported to be offering lifts in the Claremont area was not the "Telecom man" suspect that the Police had, rather an unknown person who the Police never identified.

<modsnip>

I believe this comment made by GreenDevil is crucial to identifying the person responsible for these crimes:

However they received reports that a woman was asked if they needed a lift by a person driving the same type of car that the company he worked for used. Macro know JM worked for that company during the key period of 1996-97. There was also reports from one of their projects that a male person driving the same type of company vehicle and offered someone a lift and made unwanted advances towards them etc.

What company did JM work for during 96/97?
 
So let's assume that it's correct that throats were slit;

Where was the kill site? Police have always believed publicly that the girls were killed soon after and close by. I assume the reason is that it would be hard to control the girls all the way to the outside of the metro area.
Strangling makes most sense but there's a strong suggestion throats were cut and this post/sub-thread is a hypothesis that throats were cut.

So where did he do it? He must have had to pull over somewhere.

We know 2 girls were heading west and the driver would have known that. He might have had a pre-determined point to feign running out of petrol or breakdown?

What about JR? Was she heading west? Or did he also have a pre-determined place heading east?

Or did he just wing it? He must have got out of the car and not on a main road.

Did he asks the girls to reach down to the passenger floor and pick up something and then thwap (might submit that new word to Oxford Dictionary) them with some sort of thin pointed instrument?

Where did he do it, and how did he do it without getting much blood in his car?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
105
Guests online
1,894
Total visitors
1,999

Forum statistics

Threads
600,603
Messages
18,111,154
Members
230,992
Latest member
Clue Keeper
Back
Top