Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Mel 1303]

I have always been puzzled as to why the officer that picked up the plastic lined boot guy in Highgate didn't arrest him and take him in for processing and questioning. Fingerprints, DNA, photographs, tattoos, scars, the whole thing.

Hit him with a quick Disorderly Conduct, Possession of Burglary Tools, Resisting Arrest, and you have him for at least 24 hours while you find out who he is and let Forensics run over his car.

But instead the officer let him merrily go about his plastic lined boot and cable tied business.

Another thing that puzzles me is why a WAPOL was apparently out and about on his own in a high crime area like that. You didn't often see WAPOL wandering around there on their own. Usually they had a friend with them for company.

Very odd.

I have wondered about that. The information was passed onto MACRO, who were reportedly not interested, but who else was the info passed onto? Obviously they had the driver, the car- so even if the initial investigators did not follow through as they should have, surely they have looked into it by now? We were never told how that particular incident ended.

 

[Bartholemeus]

IIRC correctly Bayens said he took him straight back to the station.

I'm unsure of police protocol but we hear time and time again across all police forces that too many slip through the cracks because of it being hard to share information.

I would have thought a guy with a plastic lined boot and abduction kit would have elicited a "red alert, this guy probably intended to murder someone, has potentially murdered someone in the past, and is a good chance to murder someone in the future". How to they file that information? Is there a database of people who are potential murder suspects going forward? If Macro didn't act on it I'd like to think someone did and had a look at him for Lisa Brown etc. I'd also like to think that come Stanbury's tenure, he also had a red hot look into him.

 

[Parkie]

Correct Barth. They did have a good look into him & somehow discounted him. Discounted him re being the CSK perhaps. DM is still high up in the list for anyone going missing in Highgate & maybe Lisa B too. remember one of his got away & testified.

 

[crabstick]

What would you arrest him for? Plastic boot lining?

It seems so easy today with mobile phones, cloud clustered departmental databases. Take a few pictures of him, the car with smart phone, share. Do a database query on his face.

I have always been puzzled as to why the officer that picked up the plastic lined boot guy in Highgate didn't arrest him and take him in for processing and questioning. Fingerprints, DNA, photographs, tattoos, scars, the whole thing.

Hit him with a quick Disorderly Conduct, Possession of Burglary Tools, Resisting Arrest, and you have him for at least 24 hours while you find out who he is and let Forensics run over his car.

But instead the officer let him merrily go about his plastic lined boot and cable tied business.

Another thing that puzzles me is why a WAPOL was apparently out and about on his own in a high crime area like that. You didn't often see WAPOL wandering around there on their own. Usually they had a friend with them for company.

Very odd.

 

[Elwood_1]

What would you arrest him for? Plastic boot lining?

It seems so easy today with mobile phones, cloud clustered departmental databases. Take a few pictures of him, the car with smart phone, share. Do a database query on his face.

What would the police arrest him for? Whatever they wanted to. The charges would later be withdrawn, and there is nothing that the accused could do about it. They are called 'Holding Charges'. You take someone into custody, document them thoroughly, and then you know exactly who they are in case you need to chat to them about matters in the future.

 

[Elwood_1]

Correct Barth. They did have a good look into him & somehow discounted him. Discounted him re being the CSK perhaps. DM is still high up in the list for anyone going missing in Highgate & maybe Lisa B too. remember one of his got away & testified.

I know of someone who was charged with Posession of an Offensive Weapon because they had a baseball bat, ball, and glove in the back of their car while on the way home from the park with their son. A dude with a full murder kit would surely be given a pretty stern talking to, and perhaps some life advice in the cells. Possession of Burglary Implements was a chargeable offense. Why didn't they get him on that? That would at least get him into the system where they could keep an eye on him.

 

[crabstick]

I understand that Elwood. Im just saying, what would they charge him with? I thought they would of had a name though.

They ask him in for questioning. If he says no, then they would charge him with trumped up charges. Then they would have to create a mountain of paperwork on a bloke with a boot lined with plastic which may just end up being to put bags of fertiliser in or that is the excuse. This is a substantial amount of paperwork and present him with the paperwork. He then rings his lawyer and walks.

His drivers licence would have been enough to document him?

He rang Macro correct? He said what do we do? and they said let him go? I don't even think they asked him in for questioning, let alone threaten a charge.

Wasnt it a VK Commodore he was driving?

What would the police arrest him for? Whatever they wanted to. The charges would later be withdrawn, and there is nothing that the accused could do about it. They are called 'Holding Charges'. You take someone into custody, document them thoroughly, and then you know exactly who they are in case you need to chat to them about matters in the future.

 

[crabstick]

Yeah baseball bat is a weapon. But why would the officers charge your mate? Lots of paperwork. They ask him in for questioning, he obviously said no, so they charged him with a weapon in his boot. That means your mate has done something pretty bad considering they wanted to drive him to question him.

I had a bloke pull a piece of electrical conduit filled with sand out of his boot once in a car park. Because if the the bad guy had a baseball bat being a weapon. Obviously inch electrical conduit doesnt count as a weapon in court.

I know of someone who was charged with Posession of an Offensive Weapon because they had a baseball bat, ball, and glove in the back of their car while on the way home from the park with their son. A dude with a full murder kit would surely be given a pretty stern talking to, and perhaps some life advice in the cells. Possession of Burglary Implements was a chargeable offense. Why didn't they get him on that? That would at least get him into the system where they could keep an eye on him.

 

[crabstick]

DNA testing is cheaper by the year. Hopefully they can develop a DNA dataset of men at the time between the age of 20 and 35. 100000 men excluding criminals already DNA tested?
Taxi drivers? There was 1.2 million people in Perth at the time? Even volunteer DNA, then run familial DNA.
Run the men, then the women. Do familial. Obviously not a record yet, as not on the criminal DNA database.

What mass DNA collection would aim to do, is exclude every man in the demographic until you have one green bottle standing on the wall.
I agree, a bloody big job. Technology is getting better. Of course, some men are now out of the country.

 

[Ellen11]

Barth; I recon he shoved off quick smartly.. after the 3rd.

Interstate.

 

[Ellen11]

Pretty sure someone has to be charged before a trial date is set - which is typically around 12 months ahead. How about we wait for an arrest first?

I was talking the time to Committal at Magistrates Court in WA (occurring after arrest/s). Similar to other States.

CS mentioned many months ago (last year in fact) that it would be about 12 months before it went to Court.

If they meant Committal at Magistrates Court, that occurs shortly (within a few months) after arrest.

12 months less a few months before the committal hearing at court is say 9 months. When did CS make the comment? Do the sums.

The link follows:

http://www.magistratescourt.wa.gov.au/C/criminal_matters.aspx

If the Magistrate believes the brief of evidence would satisfy a jury, it then progresses to trial. You are right in that it is likely it would be a lengthy period before the trial commenced.

http://www.supremecourt.wa.gov.au/W...and_civil_trials.aspx?uid=2041-5749-1000-2328

Could take years.

 

[Sutton]

...Where are the original newspaper articles detailing the Taxi attack by a man in the back? I have failed to find a single article about that attack...

RSBM. Papertrail posted an original article about the Princess Rd taxi attack that includes a quote from the victim:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-2&p=12141569#post12141569

 

[crabstick]

It appears there is two releases of the book. One in 2007 and one in 2010. The paperback is not here. I have ripped all the books out of the boxes yesterday and put them into bookshelves fitted yesterday. I asked around. It appears a friend may have it. Will have the paperback in next couple of weeks which will be the 2007 version.

Marshall, Debi, 2010. The Devil's Garden: The Claremont Serial Killings. 2nd ed. Australia: Random House

To my knowledge there are NO differences between the print version of a book and the electronic version. Books can be formatted differently, but all text must remain the same.

Yes, there are details of Denise Glennon's wedding in the book.

Your claims:

1. Ciara visited the Freshwater Yacht Club the day before her disappearance.
2. Ciara's uncle was a property developer who donated a large sum to the investigation.
3. The Devil's Garden clearly says Jane Rimmer was strangled.

I don't think any of these details are factual. Please provide the page numbers of this information.

 

[crabstick]

Generally, the person is charged, it is committed to the supreme court for trial listing hearing if pleads not guilty, then it will go to the supreme court = murder

There is a couple of variables that may alter this slightly

 

[Ellen11]

Thanks for clarifying CS - just out of curiosity do you know if it would it a similar process for conspiracy, perjury or attempting to pervert the course of justice?

Given the extensive amount of discussion devoted to DNA evidence and legal aspects, might as well also look at all potential endgame considerations. IMO.

Cheers
Ellen11

 

[crabstick]

It would be then a district court matter Ellen11

That is true. Debi Marshalls book discusses the DNA tussle at the time of the crimes around the developing evidence of DNA and its controversy

There were a couple of officers omitted from teams for different reasons. There has however been rolling police teams, some external, and overseas experts; some with conflicting profiles of the killer it appears.

While police have been ridiculed. Based on unsubstantiated rumour, efforts were made to prevent DNA detection. Considering the age of the DNA technology, the murderer took the time to ensure it would be hard to convict yet at the same time, sent a very clear message the crimes were connected. All unsubstantiated rumours from police officers in the same year.

The person appeared to know what to do in regards DNA. Its appears and sounds not to be a crime of someone like David Birnie.

The bodies have been left not far from 'sealed' roads which would indicate a two wheel drive. The bricklayers cab description, may have been dirty in turning around on the end of the road? Doing a three point turn near the scene of the crime may have been a give away?

Perth was sparse, the perpetrator not a family sibling or spouse. It is not an easy crime to solve. Rolling police teams, not one. Someone probably suffers megalomania thinking they are pretty smart, but if the table were turned on them, they would be useless at their own game.

Thanks for clarifying CS - just out of curiosity do you know if it would it a similar process for conspiracy, perjury or attempting to pervert the course of justice?

Given the extensive amount of discussion devoted to DNA evidence and legal aspects, might as well also look at all potential endgame considerations. IMO.

Cheers
Ellen11

 

[crabstick]

Mark Dixie wasnt warming up. Mark Dixie was the travelling rapist with 3 crimes already committed in Spain we know of
Who says the drug effected chef didnt know other people in the industry

Then Dixie goes home and kills a girlfriend

Dussen, 42, was arrested in Fuengirola shortly after that attack and two others, which he always denied, and was later convicted and sentenced to 15 years imprisonment.

Dixie's DNA was found at the scene of one of the attacks, but never traced by Spanish police. No DNA from Dussen was found at any of the crime scenes.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mitted-carrying-sex-attack.html#ixzz48gePpJVF
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Mallard steals the chalice from Iona church, tries to return it under the guise of detective, and Mallards cell mate Rochford commits a 'motiveless' crime on a random shop that makes inexpensive jewellery. Mallard stays on a couch with a girl who is into wicca. PW ends up with a dead cat on his letterbox.
The whole neighbourhood is full of drug effected english nut jobs.

Rochford kills his girlfriend. Dixie kills his girlfriend.

 

[Peter Kurten]

Perhaps the reason that the killer knew the cemetery so well was because he burgled cars in his earlier years? The stats on the petty crimes of serial killers in their earlier years are compelling.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Perhaps the reason that the killer knew the cemetery so well was because he burgled cars in his earlier years? The stats on the petty crimes of serial killers in their earlier years are compelling.

I get the car burglaries but how does this link to the cemetery? I imagine a teenage car burglar walking the streets in the early hours checking for unlocked cars, but why the need to go into the cemetery? There are no cars in there. I guess they'd know the whole area well and therefore know the best spots for isolation but any serial killer can work that out anyway.

The merits of checking all records of petty crime in the are as far back as the early 80s was discussed earlier on.

 

[crabstick]

Maybe the cemetery was a place to ransack vehicles? Car thieves often choose places like schools etc, where there may be no people at night, but many exits. The cemetery was not a place to go at night, and had many exits.

This guy here appears to be wearing a white shirt associated with a driver. He has a tapered haircut that a funeral car driver or taxi driver might have at the time. Can you picture him wearing his funeral driver hat? Or limo driver hat with that haircut? Is he a driver?

Was it taxi policy at the time, drivers wear a white shirt?

I get the car burglaries but how does this link to the cemetery? I imagine a teenage car burglar walking the streets in the early hours checking for unlocked cars, but why the need to go into the cemetery? There are no cars in there. I guess they'd know the whole area well and therefore know the best spots for isolation but any serial killer can work that out anyway.

The merits of checking all records of petty crime in the are as far back as the early 80s was discussed earlier on.

Notice how this guys hair hangs over his shirt collar, which would dirty the collar

*These comments are related to your question, but are targeted answer at the wider audience