Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Bartholemeus]

Ok... so lets say this crossed with the throat cutting (if that is fact) theory that has been discussed and pretty much combined with the general census of how CSK would operate.. who was the guy with the plastic lined boot that was nabbed? was he also found with a gun? or other weapon? surely having your boot lined in plastic is rare enough let alone whilst a killer is operating in the area that can cleanly transport his victims too and from a kill site to his dumping grounds undetected and with little trace evidence.

If this guy with his plastic lined boot did in fact have a weapon on him then that is a pretty strong candidate to fit a person capable to blitz attack and transport a person/body out of the area.


Now throw it that incident where the woman has her head smashed against the wall (not sure of the year but it was pre csk by a few years, at one of the pubs) what if this guy parks a little a way as Peter stated, and simply hides and bashes his victim unconscious within 30 secs or so, drags her to the car and bang gone within 1 1/2 - 2 minutes. out of there...

Was Kara rape victim known to have been physically assaulted as part of the kidnap or was it simply a grab and drag abduction?

Does anyone have any other reason why you would plastic line a boot, (and if info is correct) a weapon(s)....?

I'd love to know who plastic lined boot man is, and what police did with the information. We'd have to assume that during Stanbury's tenure as head of Macro that he tied up this loose end. Looking from afar it seems that in simplistic terms the process was a) taxi taxi taxi (Ferguson), b) we know it's LW, gloss over everything else (Caporn), c) LW is still #1 but we are in cul de sac so need to go through all other leads and exhaust them, and d) let's use the media to try and unsettle our main suspect/s.

During Phase C (Stanbury) we'd have to assume they had a red hot look at plastic lined boot man. If he's not good for CSK then surely he has to be good for Lisa Brown or a few of the other working girls who went missing. I'd love to know how hard they investigated this guy. Who is he? Does he have organised crime links and his target may have been someone over drugs? Or does he have a history of sexual violence?

I can't think of any other reason for a plastic lined boot other than abduction, and probably murder.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Now throw it that incident where the woman has her head smashed against the wall (not sure of the year but it was pre csk by a few years, at one of the pubs) what if this guy parks a little a way as Peter stated, and simply hides and bashes his victim unconscious within 30 secs or so, drags her to the car and bang gone within 1 1/2 - 2 minutes. out of there...

This scenario is unlikely. I also struggle with the jump out of the car blitz attack. I think if there was a blitz attack it would most likely be on foot with his car parked near by. But SS was in the wrong spot for this. There's a perfect spot for CG but witnesses say they saw he talking to the occupant/s of a car.

I don't believe the CSK would have tried a "pull up on Stirling Hwy, jump out of my car, run around to passenger side, grab a girl and force her into a car when I've just driven past 3 witnesses at the HJ's bus stop" scenario. It's very unlikely IMO.

The most likely scenarios are;

1. CSK was either parked in Freshwater Pde or driving along the Hwy, pulled over, she got in the car. Witness testimony suggest this is most likely
2. The car that was witnessed either didn't exist, or the time was wrong and it was someone else, or it wasn't the CSK and the driver never came forward. CSK was laying in wait at the rear of the medical centre or rear of the church, came out and blitzed her once the car drove off.

Was Kara rape victim known to have been physically assaulted as part of the kidnap or was it simply a grab and drag abduction?

We don't know but media articles tend to suggest he cloaked and silenced her very quickly. I'd suggest he used a weapon rather than physical violence which would have elicited noise.

Whilst many men can over power a slimly built 17 year old girl, the whole clocking and silencing would take some skill.


It has been floated before that the CSK could have a military background because all these abductions/killings have some precision about them.

 

[Peter Kurten]

If anyone reading has access to old paper articles such as the ones found in the Battye Library, could they please try and find one named "Clues to Killer in Rimmer Autopsy". I'm not sure which paper it's from, I would say the West.

 

[Ellen11]

Query for Dr - what did you mean by that final post (5 August 2007 - 1003pm) in the 2007 Gary Hughes CSK blog before it was closed.

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com...mments/has_a_serial_killer_blogged_here/desc/

The bit about the boat heading to Rotto in particular.

Thanks
Ellen11

 

[JackHigh]

It has been floated before that the CSK could have a military background because all these abductions/killings have some precision about them.

When we were discussing method and murder weapon earlier in the thread, i mentioned the Garrote. It is said that special forces are taught to use it as its swift and silent.

Its been suggested that the girls had their throats cut as there were signs of neck wounds.
Im thinking, if it was someone with military training and using a wire Garrote, this could indde leave cut marks around the neck.
It was said that a Garrote would infact leave cut marks all around the neck, but if it was used on someone with long hair, the hair would insulate the rear of the neck leaving the exposed throat area to be cut into.

If that makes sense?

 

[papertrail]

I think it's Mony Leucus. Watch the vid in this link below and go to the 27min30secs mark. One of his victims gives a graphic description of a terrible beating at his hands, being abducted, needled with heroin (in her view that was the substance) and the woman says he was a heroin dealer, and she detailed he had a (fully) plastic-lined boot in his vehicle on the day of the vicious attack. Click on the 'before you leap' link.

I think the ex policeman indicated it was 2001 that he'd come across the lined-boot guy and it fits perfectly in Leucus's timeline.

There is a vid still of Jane Rimmer scene that I had not seen before; it is obvious this was taken a short time after the discovery on 3 August 1996.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/beforeyouleap2/default.htm


Thankyou to everyone that have sent me private messages wondering if I am safe and healthy. Yes I am thankyou, have been very busy of late but have only recently been able to pop back onto the site to check if there's been any progress.

 

[papertrail]

The 3 guys in vehicle that witnessed Sarah Spiers at the eastern corner of Stirling Road and Stirling Highway and one suggested that he'd observed a vehicle following and that that vehicle had not traveled through the traffic lights (in his view).

What if this following vehicle was driven by the perpetrator and that Sarah did in fact get in to the vehicle, and the perpetrator waited, perhaps due to performing an immediate blitz attack inside the vehicle, and then drove off through the intersection after the next set of green lights ?

If the perpetrator had attempted to do u-turn to drive in a different direction than west along Stirling Highway towards Mosman Park, you'd think that Sarah would have become alarmed wouldn't you; therefore the perpetrator would have needed to take immediate control of the situation; hence a blitz attack inside the vehicle. The blitz attack may have involved an injection of a disabling drug and perhaps even a 2nd perpetrator.

 

[88mph]

With the State election next year, apparently McGowan has promised to send the case to the State Coroner for an inquest.

At this stage McGowan looks set to win the election, do you think this will force the hand of WAPOL to make an arrest?

 

[papertrail]

"Clues to Killer in Rimmer autopsy"

File attached. The original story included an aerial shot but I've had to only include the actual printed story due to size of file will not upload with WS system.

Unremarkable article nothing of any real substance.

I am sure I provided this article previously.

 

[Peter Kurten]

"Clues to Killer in Rimmer autopsy"

File attached. The original story included an aerial shot but I've had to only include the actual printed story due to size of file will not upload with WS system.

Unremarkable article nothing of any real substance.

I am sure I provided this article previously.

Many thanks Papertrail,

P

 

[warri0r]

I think it's Mony Leucus. Watch the vid in this link below and go to the 27min30secs mark. One of his victims gives a graphic description of a terrible beating at his hands, being abducted, needled with heroin (in her view that was the substance) and the woman says he was a heroin dealer, and she detailed he had a (fully) plastic-lined boot in his vehicle on the day of the vicious attack. Click on the 'before you leap' link.

I think the ex policeman indicated it was 2001 that he'd come across the lined-boot guy and it fits perfectly in Leucus's timeline.

There is a vid still of Jane Rimmer scene that I had not seen before; it is obvious this was taken a short time after the discovery on 3 August 1996.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/beforeyouleap2/default.htm


Thankyou to everyone that have sent me private messages wondering if I am safe and healthy. Yes I am thankyou, have been very busy of late but have only recently been able to pop back onto the site to check if there's been any progress.

Wow the "He Who Waits" video is there too, which a lot of us have wanted to see. Nice find.

 

[Peter Kurten]

Wow the "He Who Waits" video is there too, which a lot of us have wanted to see. Nice find.

It's been up here all along. Post #1028 of thread number 4.

 

[Ellen11]

Wow the "He Who Waits" video is there too, which a lot of us have wanted to see. Nice find.

"Who Dares Wins" might be a more appropriate title. IMO.

 

[elastic]

I'd love to know who plastic lined boot man is, and what police did with the information. We'd have to assume that during Stanbury's tenure as head of Macro that he tied up this loose end. Looking from afar it seems that in simplistic terms the process was a) taxi taxi taxi (Ferguson), b) we know it's LW, gloss over everything else (Caporn), c) LW is still #1 but we are in cul de sac so need to go through all other leads and exhaust them, and d) let's use the media to try and unsettle our main suspect/s.

During Phase C (Stanbury) we'd have to assume they had a red hot look at plastic lined boot man. If he's not good for CSK then surely he has to be good for Lisa Brown or a few of the other working girls who went missing. I'd love to know how hard they investigated this guy. Who is he? Does he have organised crime links and his target may have been someone over drugs? Or does he have a history of sexual violence?

I can't think of any other reason for a plastic lined boot other than abduction, and probably murder.

Yes very interesting to know who the Plastic lined boot guy is.
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id...kRAwkQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=Con Bayens&f=false
Con Bayens mentions he had "Zip ties, a balaclava, gaffer tape and scissors, and worst of all a plastic lined boot"
Its all written in the book 'Perth' which ive linked to the relevant pages above in the link.

Its most likely Donald Morey and this is what put the Police onto the guy in the first place. Tall, he carried himself like a Police Officer, and also drove a car that looked identical to an unmarked police vehicle.

The operation was 'Operation Bounty' It was headed in both Northbridge and Highgate, Morey abducted from Highgate. He is also suspected of Lisa Browns abduction.

It may not be Morey but more evidence points Morey's way as being 'plastic lined boot' guy.

 

[elastic]

Anyone know who the sexual predator is mentioned in the CIA doc during 2008? Is he the masturbator who knocked one out at Rowe Park where the Karrakatta abduction occured and also caught by a couple of passing Motorists in the middle of the disgusting strange act (in public view)?

The 2008 documentary did not go into any detail about the guy, they said 'sexual predator' or 'known' sexual predator, note the 'known'. I cant recall though if it was "known sexual Pervert" Or "Known sexual predator"

Anyways who knows of this pervert or predator around the Claremont area? Is this the Rowe Park Masturbator? He must have turned up in other cases if he is 'known'

 

[Peter Kurten]

Can anybody recall a Policeman's son being mentioned by either a poster to a forum or by word of mouth? I'm already aware the news paper article outlining the account of the blonde bobbed hair man offering lifts who said something along similar lines.

 

[elastic]

This is the link to the Rowe Park pervert who masturbated soon after the Karrakatta abduction in Rowe Park, Who is he?

https://www.scribd.com/doc/292980481/POST-Newspaper-for-12th-of-December-2015
(PAGE 5 in the above link has the article on the Rowe park masturbator)
The 2008 documentary mentions "known seual pervert/predator" (cant recall whether Pervert or Predator)

In 2008 they had linked Karrakatta and the CSK and knew for certain the DNA was connected. They made a determination that the two crimes were connected

in the 2008 CIA documentary they mention a 'known sexual pervert' then we find out a guy had 'Masturbated' at the abduction site in full view immediately following the Karrakatta abduction.

Sure this is the same guy, and he must have been a hot suspect. Who is he if he is 'known' and what other crimes has he committed to be come 'known'

The article also from the post mentions the Karrakatta victim being taken "to nearby Karrakatta Cemetery, raped and left for dead" (Page 105)

That implies a very brutal raping where the victim was left in a state of almost death and managed to survive and come alive and run off.

 

[elastic]

These are the comments from the news paper article regarding the Pervert (Masturbator at Rowe Park)

https://www.scribd.com/doc/292980481/POST-Newspaper-for-12th-of-December-2015

The witness told the POST this week that in the past year he had twice reported the 1995 Rowe Park pervert incident to police by phone, but had not yet been asked to provide a statement.He saw the man standing near a bush about 15m from Gugeri Street. The place he has identified is immediately behind the path that the 17-year-old girl is thought to have been using when abducted

The witness was able to pin-point from his own records the period in 1995 during which he saw a man publicly masturbating in Claremont’s Rowe Park, op-posite the Showground subway.The man was in full view of passing motorists.The witness said that he had left the man alone, thinking he was just a sad, lonely loser.The witness did not know then that just weeks earlier a teen-ager had been abducted from the same place after midnight, blindfolded, tied up and driven to nearby Karrakatta Cemetery, raped and left for dead

When spotted around 10am on a Saturday morning, the exhibitionist was standing not far from a basketball court where later, it emerged, the victim’s driver’s licence had been found.

And after they had made the link to Karrakatta a known sexual pervert was one of the MAIN SUSPECTS, one of only TWO suspects at that time. Martial Arts Practitioner (Possibly SD?) being the other.

 

[elastic]

"Clues to Killer in Rimmer autopsy"

File attached. The original story included an aerial shot but I've had to only include the actual printed story due to size of file will not upload with WS system.

Unremarkable article nothing of any real substance.

I am sure I provided this article previously.

Do you have pages 3 and 5? they mention more reports on the case by the looks of it, see the bottom of the article.

 

[elastic]

I would struggle to think the Taxi theory fits. Its a good theory, its been hugely exhausted and didn't turn up very much. I think it can be laid to rest.

Where are the original newspaper articles detailing the Taxi attack by a man in the back? I have failed to find a single article about that attack. Not saying they don't exist but the attack gets mentioned alot and doesn't really have any basis backing it. Someone needs to provide actual proof the abduction attempt took place and put the potential rumour to bed.

There were a large number of violent attacks by a sole perpetrator in the area, the attacks seem sexually motivated eg. ripped off a girls skirt whilst bashing her head, The Karrakatta rape, the attempted rape at Cottosloe Hotel car park, and the girl that apprently went screaming to a nearby house after being attacks in the gold course.

These point to a man who doesnt try and lure the females in, it paints a picture of a violent man who uses force and a blitz type method to subdue, bind and then rape his victims, his vehicle appears to have been used as transport. If the Taxi attack is actually true and the woman did jump out and break her leg to avoid the attack then that attack seems like the Isolated incident among all these many attacks, and when you then look at the amount of rapes/attempted rapes then it makes more sense to suggest the Taxi theory should be ruled out in favour of a lone perpetrator hiding in car parks attempted to abduct easy victims (girls who have wandered off away from the crowds) and used his vehicle as a means to get away from his abduction scene immediately with the victim before attempting to undertake his acts in a private secluded location.

Jane Rimmer was found naked and probably raped. Sarah was hidden and again assumed raped, and more likely hidden in case the evidence was found.

We dont know if Ciara was raped, but its suspected she was on her period, if so she may have been spared the rape, and just killed. Or she may have been killed early in the attack.