Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Bartholemeus]

RSBM. I've read that the front seats of the vehicle were completely missing, and only the back seats remained.

1. I don't remember the vehicle model right now, but didn't it have two individual front seats (as opposed to a single bench seat, like in older model cars)?

2. How would one remove the front seats from a vehicle? That sounds difficult.

It was a Fiat 125. Reports vary but the year make was either 1963, 1968, 1973. There are no bench front seats that I can see in these models.

Apparently back doors were shut and locked. Front door unlocked but closed. Driver's window down. Keys in ignition and lights were on.

Suggests;

1. Single killer. Back sets locked because they were never unlocked because no one got in the back seat.
2. Driver side window down. The killer may have had to get out and push a bit into the surf. Again, suggests single killer.
3. Lights on. Killer dumped car in darkness
4. Ignition on. Drove in into the ocean.
5. Can't see how a back seat escaped form the car. Maybe in came loose and a back window popped out? otherwise the killer would have had to access the back doors. I can't see a reason to remove in from the car before dumping the car unless he wanted to dump it somewhere else - which he didn't.




BillyWizz posted an article on this thread:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-14

One interesting comment was;

On Wednesday 29th June, on page 3, the ‘West Australian’ writes that the Fiat is grey and that Julie worked as a barmaid at the hotel. The newspaper says that a woman phoned their offices on Monday 27th and asked to be left alone.

That wouldn't be the first time a killer has acted as the victim after the death.

 

[Bartholemeus]

- JC was last seen on Monday 20th June 1988 at 12:30am in her car which was parked in the Parmelia Hilton car park in the city. She was alone and was leaving a staff function.
- A man and woman were see leaving the function shortly after her. It's unknown whether police spoke to them and if they have been ruled out.
- Someone online claims she was seen at The Racquet Club (a nightclub in East Perth) afterwards. She was apparently a regular there. This has never been reported by police or media. One issue with this is time. Sunrise would have been about 7am but there would have been early morning joggers. I also think police and media would have discovered she went to the Racquet Club if it were true.
- Her car was dumped in the surf at Cottesloe. Most likely by the killer but it's possible the killer dumped the car somewhere else and an uninvolved 3rd party then took the car and dumped it. The only plausible way the car go into the ocean was it was driven down the access to road to the surf club at high tide and across a limited span of sand and then was taken out with the tide.
- How the back seat came apart from the car is a mystery. It doesn't make sense that the killer dislodged the seat and dumped it and the car. I also can't see the back seat coming undone and coming out through the front window while in the surf as apparently the back doors were locked and only the front driver side window was open. Possible but unlikely. Maybe media reports are incorrect and it was the back rest of one of the front seats?
- The body was most likely dumped somewhere else. Never been found. The car went out with the tide and the car as well as a seat came back in with the tide.
- Where did JC meet her killer?
- Why dump the car in the surf? Why not just leave it in the car park?
- Why Cottesloe? The killer had to get home and there's not a lot of public transport options.

 

[88mph]

https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast...0/RSv_NsMxI46IEZfqLmqGfxFydN49-BXmdmVojLj7MYs

casefile true crime podcast episode about the CSK.

This was great, thanks. One thing I learnt was that MACRO use the Arum Lily as their logo, the same lily that the woman was looking for when she found JR..... Brings that very slight connection to the Mosman Park rapist who left lilies (though not sure if Arum).

Also listened to the podcast on Mallard. I was blown away at how tunnel visioned Caporn was in this investigation and what he did to change evidence to suit his theory. If he did the same at MACRO, you can be sure evidence has been changed or lost forever. Can't help but feel if someone else was in charge, the CSK may have been caught.

 

[88mph]

- JC was last seen on Monday 20th June 1988 at 12:30am in her car which was parked in the Parmelia Hilton car park in the city. She was alone and was leaving a staff function.
- A man and woman were see leaving the function shortly after her. It's unknown whether police spoke to them and if they have been ruled out.
- Someone online claims she was seen at The Racquet Club (a nightclub in East Perth) afterwards. She was apparently a regular there. This has never been reported by police or media. One issue with this is time. Sunrise would have been about 7am but there would have been early morning joggers. I also think police and media would have discovered she went to the Racquet Club if it were true.
- Her car was dumped in the surf at Cottesloe. Most likely by the killer but it's possible the killer dumped the car somewhere else and an uninvolved 3rd party then took the car and dumped it. The only plausible way the car go into the ocean was it was driven down the access to road to the surf club at high tide and across a limited span of sand and then was taken out with the tide.
- How the back seat came apart from the car is a mystery. It doesn't make sense that the killer dislodged the seat and dumped it and the car. I also can't see the back seat coming undone and coming out through the front window while in the surf as apparently the back doors were locked and only the front driver side window was open. Possible but unlikely. Maybe media reports are incorrect and it was the back rest of one of the front seats?
- The body was most likely dumped somewhere else. Never been found. The car went out with the tide and the car as well as a seat came back in with the tide.
- Where did JC meet her killer?
- Why dump the car in the surf? Why not just leave it in the car park?
- Why Cottesloe? The killer had to get home and there's not a lot of public transport options.



View attachment 100176

The podcast mentioned recently also confirms something I've mentioned before, LW knew JC, or at least they went to school/uni together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bartholemeus]

The podcast mentioned recently also confirms something I've mentioned before, LW knew JC, or at least they went to school/uni together.

While I have no reason to believe it's not true, the researcher here probably learnt this from DM's book so repeating it again doesn't really go any further to confirming it's validity.

When I first started looking at this case all the noise was that there was no way LW could be the CSK. I had no reason to doubt what was being said. Over the years as I peeled back the onion I found that this emanated from a theory that because Caporn has questionable (disgraceful at best) methods then it stands to reason that like Mallard, LW was unfairly targeted and therefore is innocent. This was repeated over and over again by multiple people until in became widely accepted as truth. Upon further looking into it I discovered that LW was by far the suspect who had the most circumstantial evidence against him, and that until at least 2004 he was by far Macro's #1 suspect, and that many police believed as long as the case remained unsolved he'd still be a suspect.

 

[delbertGrady]

This was great, thanks. One thing I learnt was that MACRO use the Arum Lily as their logo, the same lily that the woman was looking for when she found JR..... Brings that very slight connection to the Mosman Park rapist who left lilies (though not sure if Arum). Also listened to the podcast on Mallard. I was blown away at how tunnel visioned Caporn was in this investigation and what he did to change evidence to suit his theory. If he did the same at MACRO, you can be sure evidence has been changed or lost forever. Can't help but feel if someone else was in charge, the CSK may have been caught.

The Mosman park attacker brought oriental lilies, which are very different to arum lilies (I knew them as calla lilies)

 

[escapehere]

- How the back seat came apart from the car is a mystery. It doesn't make sense that the killer dislodged the seat and dumped it and the car. I also can't see the back seat coming undone and coming out through the front window while in the surf as apparently the back doors were locked and only the front driver side window was open. Possible but unlikely. Maybe media reports are incorrect and it was the back rest of one of the front seats?

Sutton's post said it was the FRONT seats that were removed, the back seat was found in place. You're saying the opposite. Do we know which is correct?

 

[Bartholemeus]

Sutton's post said it was the FRONT seats that were removed, the back seat was found in place. You're saying the opposite. Do we know which is correct?

I have no idea. I got my info from here (post 338)

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/claremont-serial-killings.985161/page-14

Later that same day a car’s backseat was retrieved from the sea, near the groyne, at Cottesloe Beach

The car was discovered 35 metres from the beach and had been left with its ignition and lights on, front driver’s side window open, rear doors locked and both front doors unlocked. Det. Sgt. Katich is appealing for a man and a woman seen exiting the hotel just after Julie to come forward. Police also appeal for anyone who saw Julie’s car parked either on the slip road near the surf club or nearby to contact them.

Unsure how accurate it is. It comes from a website that Billy found that I have been unable to locate. It appears it's an excerpt from an early media report and we all know that these are often unreliable.

I don't know where Sutton got her info from but....

It doesn't make sense for it to be the back seat. It can't fit out the windows and it's unlikely the killer removed it and dumped it separately. The front seat however could possibly fit out the window (the back rest bit).

 

[Bartholemeus]

I think the podcast is made by a Perth local,

Not that it matters but the podcaster pronounces Cottesloe incorrectly (It's Cotta-slow not Cottez-Low) and it also took 30 cases to get to the CSK. I think if it were Perth local then CSK would be much earlier in the piece.

 

[Sutton]

Sutton's post said it was the FRONT seats that were removed, the back seat was found in place. You're saying the opposite. Do we know which is correct?

Idk. I think I've read it twice, but this is the only source I have saved:

View attachment Cold case squad to tackle serious unsolved crime.pdf
or here's the DB link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f08kmkyjc...uad to tackle serious unsolved crime.pdf?dl=0

 

[Sutton]

...Also listened to the podcast on Mallard. I was blown away at how tunnel visioned Caporn was in this investigation and what he did to change evidence to suit his theory. If he did the same at MACRO, you can be sure evidence has been changed or lost forever. Can't help but feel if someone else was in charge, the CSK may have been caught.

RSBM. Yes. I do not believe anything that was concluded under Caporn's command.

But it wasn't just Caporn. He didn't single-handedly screw up the CSK case. It was and is the culture of the WA Police Force. The convictions of John Button, Darryl Beamish, the Micklebergs, Andrew Mallard and Roy Christie were shams. Arthur Greer could be innocent (though I doubt it and need compelling evidence to convince me otherwise). We'll never know, thanks to things hidden in the investigation. And I believe Lloyd Rainey is innocent as well (but police won't properly investigate anyone else).

Police had a torture house, for crying out loud. They aren't just incompetent or using questionable tactics. The police are conmen and th*gs. Surely there are honest, clean cops on the force. But they are up against leaders like Caporn, and a culture of dishonesty.

Edit:WS keeps marking out th*gs

 

[Sutton]

Near the end of Ch. 47 (location 2626 in electronic versions) Debi Marshall writes,

Three weeks before Cutler disappeared, another woman had been abducted and bound after leaving Perth's Sheraton Hotel, and later dumped near a bridge.

Anyone know who she's referring to?

 

[delbertGrady]

Not that it matters but the podcaster pronounces Cottesloe incorrectly (It's Cotta-slow not Cottez-Low) and it also took 30 cases to get to the CSK. I think if it were Perth local then CSK would be much earlier in the piece.

i also pronounce it cottez-low.

 

[hideoustroll]

i also pronounce it cottez-low.

Me too.

 

[88mph]

i also pronounce it cottez-low.

Being from that area too, I did note how he pronounced it - not like a local.

 

[Bartholemeus]

It's definitely Cotta-slow/Cotte-slow.

 

[Peter Kurten]

Cott ah slow

 

[Bartholemeus]

Near the end of Ch. 47 (location 2626 in electronic versions) Debi Marshall writes,

Three weeks before Cutler disappeared, another woman had been abducted and bound after leaving Perth's Sheraton Hotel, and later dumped near a bridge.

Anyone know who she's referring to?

I don't recall it and can't find it on a search. Papertrail's skills could come in handy on this one.

 

[delbertGrady]

It's definitely Cotta-slow/Cotte-slow.

Well I must be saying it wrong. Unfortunately we can't all have western suburbs accents. Btw I asked the podcaster and he isn't from Perth, you were right.

 

[Peter Kurten]

I don't recall it and can't find it on a search. Papertrail's skills could come in handy on this one.

I don't recall reading this in the book. I deem this as potentially very relevant.