Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Bartholemeus]

If the alleged female accomplice was driving, this could easily allow for a "blitz attack" if the main perp was hiding in the back of the vehicle.

Let's just be clear here on blitz attack so we're all on the same page;

There is no such thing as a "blitz attack" once inside the vehicle.

The point of contention is how the girls got into the vehicle. There are only 2 logical options;

a. They got in voluntarily. It was a taxi, a police car, there was a female in the car that made them feel at ease, the driver was a charmer and/or non-threatening etc

b. They were abducted on foot and then put into a car (i.e. like Karrakatta)


Can we please stop talking about a blitz attack once inside the vehicle. It's neither here nor there.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Does anyone know where Frank Silas worked? It says "western suburbs factory". There's not many factories in the western suburbs. There's a handful in Carrington St next to the cemetary, another handful on McCabe St Mosman Park, There's not a lot of options that I can think of. Maybe around the Jolimont area as well.

CARK's claims on the surface are quite compelling as were Noel Coward's. I struggle to believe police didn't investigate this guy and rule him out. Just like Noel Coward, Mr Silas appears to be stretching the truth with regards to some of his claims.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Found it!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/14fibheszgqgtl2/We know the Claremont killer.pdf?dl=0

If Frank Silas's story is true, this is the guy.

<modsnip> After reading this, it seems like this case may have been blown by dismissive attitudes by police.

This dismissive attitude by police is speculation at best.

Numerous people have claimed police haven't investigated their claims (Estelle Blackburn, Con Bayens, Noel Coward, Frank Silas and probably more).

I don't have a huge amount of faith in the police (the world over) because time and time again we learn of incompetence, corruption and misguided self agendas within. BUT....

- Police have no obligation to update these people as to the status of the investigation. Just because they haven't reported their findings to the citizens who made the allegations doesn't necessarily mean they haven't investigated it
- Approximately 8 reviews of the case. Sure, there may be some bias in it but The Schramm Review did unearth some new leads. If there was any truth to this it surely would have been unearthed somewhere
- Mr Silas claims he saw his POI offering lifts in Claremont and saw blood stains on his car. This to me appears to be made up to with the intention of getting police to be more urgent in investigating this guy.

I couldn't rule this guy out but I'm sceptical. Although I've seen many cases of police incompetence across multiple police forces, I'm struggling to believe police never investigated this guy and put it to bed.

 

[Bartholemeus]

So when was the info that a panel van may be involved first made publicly available? Last year? It is one hell of a coincidence that an article/personal account from 2001 extensively mentions a panel van. If the Karakatta/panel van link had not been established in 2001, at least publicly, this would make me think that the information provided my Mr. Silas is potentially significant.

Edit: I see that the Karakatta panel van info was publicly available in 2001. Darn.

Early on. We only knew about it last year because papertrail managed to dig up an early news report.

You'll find in high profile investigation where media are jostling and demanding updates that incorrect info is reported. Every time, without fail.

Early in this investigation there were reports of; a panel van, the blonde haired guy, a guy with shoulder length hair, and a lot of other information that has either fallen by the wayside or that we now know is incorrect.

The reason this information falls by the wayside is because as the case progresses the pressure for journalists to take risks in getting stories out there subsides. They not only learn more over time but have more time to consider whether thier stories are accurate. As time goes by the early incorrect reports drop off the radar.

As interesting as it is looking back at these old articles, they are in fact unreliable because we're looking at a point in time where journalist were less educated on what was fact and what was fiction.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Even if this supposed person has moved away, is it really to late to try to go down that particular route of inquiry?

You need to start by finding out where he worked back then. If that factory was in Carrington St next to the cemetery my ears will prick up slightly more.

 

[Peter Kurten]

I will attempt to make contact with Frank Silas and ask him to clarify the above information.

 

[Parkie]

Hello Websleuths; Parkie here. How is your hunt going for the Claremont Cul De Sac Killer going? He links us to rail lines & tunnels etc. As well as Limestone & Henderson if Debbie Malone has her way.. Check this out for a good bite, nothing like a good bite at this point in the investigation hey. Everyone loves a good bite.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Unresolved..._anyone_know_any_good_unsolved_serial_killer/ What do you recon multiple name Shazza? He is a bit out there hey? Yet he is not me..

 

[Parkie]

If he is back in town, I`d have all sorts under the bed too.

 

[Sutton]

Hello Websleuths; Parkie here. How is your hunt going for the Claremont Cul De Sac Killer going? He links us to rail lines & tunnels etc. As well as Limestone & Henderson if Debbie Malone has her way.. Check this out for a good bite, nothing like a good bite at this point in the investigation hey. Everyone loves a good bite.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Unresolved..._anyone_know_any_good_unsolved_serial_killer/ What do you recon multiple name Shazza? He is a bit out there hey? Yet he is not me..

The OP of the Reddit post comments on this thread as well. I love the post--it recognizes BF posters and others who have not forgotten what the CSK did to the Karrakatta victim, Sarah Spiers, Jane Rimmer, and Ciara Glennon (and Julie Cutler, IMO).

Maybe some of the new posters on WS were directed here by that post. There have been quite a few in the past several months (the poster originally made the comment on another Reddit thread). Welcome to all the new posters.

Good nose, Parkie

 

[Parkie]

Yes I did recognise the name on here.

 

[escapehere]

Does anyone know where Frank Silas worked? It says "western suburbs factory". There's not many factories in the western suburbs.

96/97 timeframe? Maybe the old industrial area of Subiaco that is now Subi Centro. When did they start that work?

Also there's was a bit along Stubbs Tce in Shenton Park, beside the rail lines. Nothing big time industry though, "light" industrial at best.

I guess it depends on the context of the article too. I personally would never consider Osborne Park to be Western Suburbs, but a journalist not from the area might.

 

[Peter Kurten]

96/97 timeframe? Maybe the old industrial area of Subiaco that is now Subi Centro. When did they start that work?

Also there's was a bit along Stubbs Tce in Shenton Park, beside the rail lines. Nothing big time industry though, "light" industrial at best.

I guess it depends on the context of the article too. I personally would never consider Osborne Park to be Western Suburbs, but a journalist not from the area might.

Good call escapehere,

From a Geographical standpoint, I regard the Subi/Jolimont/Wembley area to be of greater significance due the research done on distance from anchor points of serial killers.

I remember there were lots of storage units there but I can't remember much else.

 

[Peter Kurten]

I'm submitting the following table to this thread for reference. It includes the analysis of over 50 US Serial Killers and the spatial patterns of their Points of Fatal Encounters (PFE's) and the Body Disposal sites (BD's). If we consider, for the purposes of discussion only, that the first crime was the Karrakatta rape and the point at which the killer let the victim go was the BD, then we can use these to predict, on some kind of basis, the home location/anchor point of the offender. Also note, the first and third data points have statistical significance beyond what is considered acceptable for empirical judgements (beyond 0.05).

 

[silver tongue]

reg anchor points and geographical standpoints or what ever there called, all though are main suspects live close to claremont many serial killers chose to operate outside of their home state, take these famous sickos just to name a few
1, ted bundy victims colorado florida idaho oregon utah washington
2 agel maturino resendra killed as many as 38 victims across the us
3 ricardo ramirez night stalker he targeted LA and san fransisc
4 zodiac killer victims in LA benecia vallejo lakeberryessa and san francisco

 

[Peter Kurten]

reg anchor points and geographical standpoints or what ever there called, all though are main suspects live close to claremont many serial killers chose to operate outside of their home state, take these famous sickos just to name a few
1, ted bundy victims colorado florida idaho oregon utah washington
2 agel maturino resendra killed as many as 38 victims across the us
3 ricardo ramirez night stalker he targeted LA and san fransisc
4 zodiac killer victims in LA benecia vallejo lakeberryessa and san francisco

You're right, however:

We are only looking for the anchor point at that particular time - during those four crimes. Of course this may have changed after these particular crimes in Claremont.

The law of averages is one of the few things we can work with. Not having much else with regards to geo information on these crimes, it is worthy to look at the data in the context of other crimes of similar nature that have been studied.

 

[silver tongue]

fair enough,PK
i wonder if applied to the birnies travels would this caper work as we know all anchor points .

 

[Sillybilly]

Posts have been removed.

This isn't a guessing game between members. Please don't post in a cryptic, riddle-me style. If you have something to say, please say it with clarity so other posters aren't left scratching their heads over what the heck you mean.

Thanks !! :wave:

 

[Sutton]

I'm submitting the following table to this thread for reference. It includes the analysis of over 50 US Serial Killers and the spatial patterns of their Points of Fatal Encounters (PFE's) and the Body Disposal sites (BD's). If we consider, for the purposes of discussion only, that the first crime was the Karrakatta rape and the point at which the killer let the victim go was the BD, then we can use these to predict, on some kind of basis, the home location/anchor point of the offender. Also note, the first and third data points have statistical significance beyond what is considered acceptable for empirical judgements (beyond 0.05).

Interesting train of thought. What's the unit of measurement? Miles or km? Can you provide a link to the source? I have questions about how they selected those specific killers.

 

[Sutton]

This 2003 article by Liam Bartlett reads, Police believe they're hunting an offender responsible for the murder of at least four young women -- three of them last seen around Claremont.

It seems to be referring to Julie Cutler, but isn't completely clear.

Debbi Marshall says that Julie had two (former?) boyfriends, either of whom may have been involved with her disappearance. But there isn't any other published support of this.

The more I think about it, the more I think Julie was an early victim. Anyone agree or disagree?

(Please post if you cannot access this article--it's so annoying when that happens.)

http://go.galegroup.com/ps/i.do?id=...PS&sw=w&asid=e3a192f6ae3c7f0ed0a937b517d57baa

 

[Bartholemeus]

Good article. It's the first time I've seen media claim the police have admitted they had no DNA early in the piece. Also the opinion from Caporn that they believe the killer has some sort of mental tie to the Claremont area.

It's disappointing that the police didn't do more public appeals on the JC case. It's unlikely her body was in the car when it was dumped so where is it? Was it the killer who put the car into the ocean or someone else? Is it possible to check tides and determine likely times the car was dumped? I assume the car had to be dumped late in the night. 4am-5am. There's people around on weekend nights until at least 2am. The car park over looking the surf was a gay meeting spot during that era.

I think there's a reasonable chance this was the CSK.