Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

[Greysp]

And of course the unlikely possibility that the real CSK has access to the exhibits, knew the accused, and was able to plant the accused DNA before they were retested.

I'm sure the Defence will go through that with a fine comb and probably call everyone who ever worked in Exhibit Management, and the Chem Centre, after reading the Post article to call anyone who worked there when the evidence allegedly went missing for a period of time.

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That would only work if they had nothing but DNA.



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[JoWa]

And of course the unlikely possibility that the real CSK has access to the exhibits, knew the accused, and was able to plant the accused DNA before they were retested.

I'm sure the Defence will go through that with a fine comb and probably call everyone who ever worked in Exhibit Management, and the Chem Centre, after reading the Post article to call anyone who worked there when the evidence allegedly went missing for a period of time.

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When reading Brett Christian's articles in the Post he does seem to present a biased attitude against the police. For example in the article in your post he presents the CG evidence as though it were missed. However, it is just as likely that advances in forensics have enabled DNA to be recovered that was not known to exist in the late 1990s. They can get DNA from a fingerprint now, in the 1990s that would have been impossible.

The chem centre evidence, while missing from the place police thought it to be, it was not really missing just in a different police lab, chain of evidence may not have been broken. Even if we were to call in to question the authenticity of the evidence, they may have been able to test those fibres for DNA from skin cells belonging to JR. This would eliminate questions of it being planted. IMO there were minor errors in the evidence, but nothing as terrifying as Caporns need to focus solely on LW.

I can't see one person getting access to all that evidence without raising red flags. Even if someone was being set up surely you would go after a POI not a complete stranger unknown to the case.


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[JoWa]

In regards to bre being set up

Brother?

There is no evidence to suggest BRE worked with someone else. Not really fair to cast judgement on his brother without any evidence. He seems to be a good guy. Family man who until recently worked in nursing in Aboriginal communities up north. The majority of serial killers have siblings that are not psychopaths, would be wrong to drag him into this just because they are siblings.


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[CSK?]

There is no evidence to suggest BRE worked with someone else. Not really fair to cast judgement on his brother without any evidence. He seems to be a good guy. Family man who until recently worked in nursing in Aboriginal communities up north. The majority of serial killers have siblings that are not psychopaths, would be wrong to drag him into this just because they are siblings.


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Appearing to be a nice guy means nothing, I'm sure A LOT of people who knew BRE would have said the exact same thing about him before he was named "He seems to be a good guy. Family man who until recently volunteered with little athletics". everything else is spot on, there is nothing whatsoever to suggest his brother had anything to do with this and he should never be judged by what his brother has done.

 

[winner]

At this stage from what I see with the evidence in hand DNA,location,job,white station wagon etc that there is a high probably that they have their man.Charges laid pretty quickly after DNA taken.However innocent until proven guilty.I guess BRE family and friends would have a better idea than an outsider.There will be initial shock and disbelief but they may be able to view things and over time fill the jigsaw. I believe there are many more cold cases that may be linked here over time.

 

[CSK?]

so there is evidence to suggest BRE is guilty, DNA, Vehicle etc etc plus what is known to the police but not made public. For the ones whom think BRE is being framed do you have any evidence suggesting this? It would make for a more compelling argument to provide evidence or at least a reasoning as to why he is being framed rather than simply stating "in my opinion" is the opinion based off of knowing BRE in r/l or a distrust of WAPOL or some other reason?

 

[silver tongue]

i cant remember the bloke of hand but i do recall a serial killer planting false DNA at his crime scenes
the cops also drove the same model commodore as the one BRE was driving
he could of worked on the phones the girls called from
im an odds man so i swing to BRE being guilty but sometimes you just never know in this crazy world whats around the corner

 

[Greysp]

For anyone who knows BRE. Can you explain why TRG did the arrest. Does he have weapons?

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[Owlie]

Seriously, I try to apply some common sense and objectivity to some unsubstantiated claims and I get PMs calling me a tool.

If if you really 100% think that the police have their man then why continue to comment on this site at all.

The purpose of this site is to try and solve horrible crimes against people, if you truly believe it solved move one.

Cant wait for the trolls.

thanks.

Nobody should abuse you regardless of whether they agree with your posts or not.

I disagree with your comment about moving on if we think WAPOL have got it right I don't follow your reasoning but that's ok I respect everyone's right to their opinion.

None of us know for sure if they have or not got the right man which is why I always post "alleged" before BREs name. Regardless if the accused is the CSK I'm interested in how it happened, where it happened, why it happened, where SS is and if there are further victims related to the CSK, whoever turns out to be the CSK.

I have no intention of derailing this thread. As a Perth woman I've lived with this nightmare for more than 21 years.

As a scientist I think trying to pick apart DNA technology is unhelpful but that's just my opinion.

Cheers to all and let's all just try to get along - agree to disagree.



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[Greysp]

Nobody should abuse you regardless of whether they agree with your posts or not.

I disagree with your comment about moving on if we think WAPOL have got it right I don't follow your reasoning but that's ok I respect everyone's right to their opinion.

None of us know for sure if they have or not got the right man which is why I always post "alleged" before BREs name. Regardless if the accused is the CSK I'm interested in how it happened, where it happened, why it happened, where SS is and if there are further victims related to the CSK, whoever turns out to be the CSK.

I have no intention of derailing this thread. As a Perth woman I've lived with this nightmare for more than 21 years.

As a scientist I think trying to pick apart DNA technology is unhelpful but that's just my opinion.

Cheers to all and let's all just try to get along - agree to disagree.



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It's good to have a scientist's perspective

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[petedavo.au]

Appearing to be a nice guy means nothing, I'm sure A LOT of people who knew BRE would have said the exact same thing about him before he was named "He seems to be a good guy. Family man who until recently volunteered with little athletics". everything else is spot on, there is nothing whatsoever to suggest his brother had anything to do with this and he should never be judged by what his brother has done.

Subjudicial to "judge" as such, as the accused is before the court now. I'm sure the defence will bring up any reasonable doubts about the evidence and identifying particulars. Just as the prosecution will counter each. I wonder if there will be an applications for a Judge alone trial?

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[Owlie]

When considering HOW the CSK subdued and abducted his/her victims, then its important to consider the victims' responses to the perceived threat.
i.e. how the victims react once they realise they are in imminent danger.

You are probably familiar with the 'fight or flight' responses to any stressors (eg: events, people, situations, attacks, animals, natural disasters, and many more) that threaten health, life, and safety of any individual or group.

Faced with a threat, our body primes itself with hormones and prepares our muscles and nervous system to either attack the stressor/threat (fight response) or escape the danger and run away as fast as it can (flight response).

Besides FIGHT or FLIGHT, there is also third stress response called FREEZE.

The FREEZE response is common in animals when they 'play dead' because the animal has realised it cannot possibly survive by physically attacking or out-running the oncoming perceived threat.

Humans can also freeze and completely stop in their tracks when faced with danger.

Now back to how the CSK subdued and abducted his/her victims -
No individual can really state with confidence whether they or someone else will react with a 'fight, flight, or freeze response' when approached by a attacker, especially someone like a psychopathic SK. Each situation is different. And each person (attacker/s and victim/s) is different.

We would all probably like to imagine that we would scream and fight back scratching the attacker's face or going for the their throat, groin, or eyes.....or at very least run for our lives. But in reality, chances are we could just freeze - voice box paralysed, legs turning to jelly, our physical co-ordination gone, muscle control diminished, including pelvic floor and sphincter muscles releasing, so we could just stand there and literally wet ourselves or **** our pants.

Therefore, its entirely plausible and possible that each of the CSK's victims just FROZE in the face of danger. And even if that freeze response was only momentary, it would provide time for the CSK to strike, tag, gag and bag his/her victims, rendering them incapable of choosing another response.

Maybe CSK Victims could neither fight nor run away - a missed opportunity due to an physiological freeze response when faced with death.








https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...auma-and-the-freeze-response-good-bad-or-both

Journal article on freeze response for more in-depth reading:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2489204/



NOTE: In situations of prolonged trauma, this freeze response can develop into psychological dissociation and psychological numbing, when a victim reacts by feeling that they are 'not really there' , experiencing the trauma like a nightmare or movie scene in an effort to 'remove themselves' from the trauma or outcomes of trauma. Denial can be part of this dissociation/numbing response.

Excellent post Spooks!


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[Spooks-R-Us]

For anyone who knows BRE. Can you explain why TRG did the arrest. Does he have weapons?

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IMO using TRG to make arrest was suitable given the impact this case has had on family, friends, locals, and inter/national audiences.

Wouldn't surprise me if the accused had illegal firearms hidden in his home.

 

[Trueblue2017]

i cant remember the bloke of hand but i do recall a serial killer planting false DNA at his crime scenes
the cops also drove the same model commodore as the one BRE was driving
he could of worked on the phones the girls called from
im an odds man so i swing to BRE being guilty but sometimes you just never know in this crazy world whats around the corner

and what better cover than being a police officer who has just knocked off duty and still in uniform. driving down Stirling Highway. sees a lady standing on the side of the road, pulls up asks her what she is doing. She replies waiting for a taxi. Ohh, we believe the CSK is a taxi driver, jump in love I will give you lift home make sure you get their safely. Just to put it out there as a potential theory. IMO

not in a work car mind you but a private vehicle. I doubt whether the fibres from the VS are different from a station wagon to a sedan. IMO

and if it was, he may even have worked his way onto the task force. IMO.

and what a shambles that would make of the WAPOL if that were the case. IMO

 

[Greysp]

IMO using TRG to make arrest was suitable given the impact this case has had on family, friends, locals, and inter/national audiences.

Wouldn't surprise me if the accused had illegal firearms hidden in his home.

I still think there must be a reason. There's always other ways. Look at Rayney. And to get a judge to allow this type of arrest there must have been a) good reason or b) strong evidence to suggest his guilt.

Remember, even the caporn was convinced Lance Williams was guilty, they never arrested him.

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[Greysp]

and what better cover than being a police officer who has just knocked off duty and still in uniform. driving down Stirling Highway. sees a lady standing on the side of the road, pulls up asks her what she is doing. She replies waiting for a taxi. Ohh, we believe the CSK is a taxi driver, jump in love I will give you lift home make sure you get their safely. Just to put it out there as a potential theory. IMO

not in a work car mind you but a private vehicle. I doubt whether the fibres from the VS are different from a station wagon to a sedan. IMO

and if it was, he may even have worked his way onto the task force. IMO.

and what a shambles that would make of the WAPOL if that were the case. IMO

Sorry. I don't buy that. Back in those days (even now) chicks go with random guys all the time.
CG just returned from a HITCHHIKING holiday.

He wasn't clever. He was a random attacker. Notoriously hard to solve. He was lucky.

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[Biggus]

and what better cover than being a police officer who has just knocked off duty and still in uniform. driving down Stirling Highway. sees a lady standing on the side of the road, pulls up asks her what she is doing. She replies waiting for a taxi. Ohh, we believe the CSK is a taxi driver, jump in love I will give you lift home make sure you get their safely. Just to put it out there as a potential theory. IMO

not in a work car mind you but a private vehicle. I doubt whether the fibres from the VS are different from a station wagon to a sedan. IMO

and if it was, he may even have worked his way onto the task force. IMO.

and what a shambles that would make of the WAPOL if that were the case. IMO

Very handy that the policeman had the suspect's DNA on hand to plant back then, or did he work his way onto the task force and plant DNA on the Huntigdale kimono, the stored Karrakatta rape kit and the DNA evidence from the CG crime scene? Sounds legit.............

 

[Trueblue2017]

IMO using TRG to make arrest was suitable given the impact this case has had on family, friends, locals, and inter/national audiences.

Wouldn't surprise me if the accused had illegal firearms hidden in his home.

IMO. that would of been something the WAPOL would of made a big thing of, given how vocal they were at the commencement of the arrest and subsequent charge.

they were also very open with all of the potential (and some will say proven) DNA evidence they had at the beginning, why the sudden silence? and I get that they are not obligated to tell the public anything, but that didn't stop them saying a whole heap at the beginning.IMO

 

[Owlie]

It's good to have a scientist's perspective

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I'm not a forensic scientist or DNA expert but I did study it in its early days while at Uni and as a scientist I guess I just have a strong believe in science (JMO).




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[janwa]

For anyone who knows BRE. Can you explain why TRG did the arrest. Does he have weapons?

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This is only a guess but if there was someone other than BRE in the house TRG can act immediately to safeguard that person. Others have to keep getting authorisation up and down the chain of command.