Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13

[RETPI]

is this a fact or your understanding? There is a very significant difference. Just IMO

Well, I've clearly stated it's my understanding.

IF familial DNA was a factor, as has been reported, that's exactly as it would have played out.

However, familial DNA may not have been a factor and that may have been an error in reporting or reporters making assumptions.

We do know WAPOL had DNA from Karrakatta, Claremont and then Huntingdale that matched and that is fact.

They say that the Huntingdale incident led them to the breakthrough.

BE was questioned and HIS DNA taken and a positive match led him to be charged with the above incidents and that certainly is a fact.

 

[MyLeftFoot]

Agree with your facst Retpi..but...
How did the DNA get there? We have to look at all possibilities to be fair!

 

[MyLeftFoot]

this refresher link also has some on the matter of con bayen's report >
[ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uspect-walk-free-focused-tying-man-crime.html ]

today i'v thought an awful lot about skepticism...
the ability to maintain an open mind would have to be the best attribute of any aspiring sleuth, particularly in unlikely 'sets of circumstance', theories, and the improbable, which -when afforded consideration- the sequential order of events should lean towards discussion, debate, and the possible revelation of something previously unconsidered in any newly arising avenue of thought.while i can understand how skepticism might sometimes become employed as a defense mechanism, it is good sleuthing's worst enemy, and tunnel vision's greatest ally
...imo

[emoji1360]





[emoji887]

If those are your thoughts Brevette...they're Gooduns!

 

[RETPI]

Lets not beat around the bush here Retpi...do you really believe that BE's DNA wasn't acquired before the raid? Considering the media was tipped off and reporting as it unfolded..seriously, we know how it really works!

No, I don't believe it was.

They may have obtained investigative leads from familial DNA, but even that may not have been necessary, depending on the leads that would have been generated from the Huntingdale file, given the proximity of Edwards residence to the victim.

Familial DNA may also not have been possible, as a relative may not have been on the database.

Some Websleuthers need to do a bit more reading on how DNA gets on a database and how it can be legally used and I suspect are being a little too influenced by some fictional TV shows.

Having a look at BE, where he was living and working at the times of the various incidents, the access he had to vehicles (bearing in mind they also had fibres from a VS Commodore) and other factors, would certainly make BE a good POI.

WAPOL would have discretely checked whether he was in the state at the time of the incidents and gone through a range of other inquiries with his employer.

He would have looked good, even without DNA in order for them to question him.

 

[MyLeftFoot]

No, I don't believe it was.

They may have obtained investigative leads from familial DNA, but even that may not have been necessary, depending on the leads that would have been generated from the Huntingdale file, given the proximity of Edwards residence to the victim.

Familial DNA may also not have been possible, as a relative may not have been on the database.

Some Websleuthers need to do a bit more reading on how DNA gets on a database and how it can be legally used and I suspect are being a little too influenced by some fictional TV shows.

Having a look at BE, where he was living and working at the times of the various incidents, the access he had to vehicles (bearing in mind they also had fibres from a VS Commodore) and other factors, would certainly make BE a good POI.

WAPOL would have discretely checked whether he was in the state at the time of the incidents and gone through a range of other inquiries with his employer.

He would have looked good, even without DNA in order for them to question him.

Well I guess the truth lies in whichever comes first....the chicken or the egg!

 

[RETPI]

Agree with your facst Retpi..but...
How did the DNA get there? We have to look at all possibilities to be fair!

Why is BE's DNA present at three different crimes scenes?

Well, the prosecution will certainly try an answer that question and the defence will have to develop the other possibilities.

 

[MyLeftFoot]

Why is BE's DNA present at three different crimes scenes?

Well, the prosecution will certainly try an answer that question and the defence will have to develop the other possibilities.

There are many other reports on the net where DNA evidence is underfire. Sadly, it isn't necessarily as reliable as we hoped it would be.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s724179.htm

 

[bessie]

:seeya: PLEASE, DO NOT quote a "broken quote". I've spent far too long trying to repair the tangled mess. Unfortunately, it is now nearly impossible to decipher who said what, and to whom.

If you absolutely must reply to a post, and the quote inside is a mess, don't use the "quote" option. In your post just type something like, "in reply to *advertiser censored*, who said, blah, blah, blah." Hint: Copy and paste the portion you're resonding to.

Questions? Send in a pm.

:tyou:

 

[Foolio79]

yes DNA links the cases but nothing has ever been reported as 100% matching BRE. just to remind all, imo

<modsnip> this is about as 100% as you can get pre-trial <modsnip>

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...s/news-story/557f281e68cdf76d572843291ea9cef7

"A DNA sample was reportedly taken from Mr Edwards immediately after his arrest and positive results allegedly came back later in the day, leading to him being formally charged with the wilful murders of Ms Rimmer and Ms Glennon."

 

[MyLeftFoot]

Woops!!!...Sorry Bessie :truce:

 

[Spinnaker]

Do we know where JR worked? Which child care centre?

Spooks I did read somewhere that it was near KK - I will try and find the link.

 

[Guccigal]

Hi everyone, long time lurker and Claremont resident here now just joined. In response to the question re where JR worked it was Nedlands Early Learning Centre and it is situated on government road, right across from the KK cemetery, you couldnt get any closer! Both my kids attended there.

 

[Spinnaker]

Hi everyone, long time lurker and Claremont resident here now just joined. In response to the question re where JR worked it was Nedlands Early Learning Centre and it is situated on government road, right across from the KK cemetery, you couldnt get any closer! Both my kids attended there.

Thank you Guccigal for clarifying!

Interesting connection between Government Road and the Post article - I have attached again for those who have not seen it:

 

[7SJ707]

Operation Lorimer was the hugely important investigation of the Silk / Miller double murder, of two Victorian policemen in 1998.
It has strong parallels to the CSK investigation, in terms of being a crime that shocked a State, a determination to be solved properly, (unlike the earlier Walsh Street fiasco, where revengeful police ****s summarily executed two crucial young potential witnesses destroying the case) and huge public interest .
When a re-examination of forensic testing on a shattered windscreen , led to Bandali Debs and Jason Roberts firming as suspects in July 1999 , Lorimer investigators placed state of the art transmitting and recording devices in both the suspects, and their associates, homes and cars.
An overt surveillance strategy was then put in place , aligned with critically timed media releases releasing snippets of information, predictions of an imminent arrest , and even a photo shopped likeness of Roberts lifted from his drivers licence.
This investigative tactic was designed ,and in fact led to Roberts and Debs making a number of self incriminating statements when discussing the murders in response to the "in your face" level of police "harassment " they encountered as they attempted to go about their daily routine. This overt surveillance was kept in place for almost one year to the day-culminating with the arrest of Debs in July 2000 and Roberts not long after.
IMO there are similarities to the CSK case, if it can be accepted that BRE came onto the radar unexpectedly in November 2015. Firming very quickly to the point whereby the surprise December 2015 media release detailing the type of car driven by the CSK was deemed fit for release as it was no further value kept secret.
A number of media releases confidently predicting the Claremont Killer would eventually be caught followed into 2016, and it is reported that BREs wife left him in March.
Facebook posts which could be construed as "taunting" watching investigators are recorded in June 2016 before BREs arrest in December 2016 - like the Lorimer investigation it appears BRE was allowed to "run free" for exactly a year as surveillance teams tried to provoke action and glean information from responses of the "Target".

 

[SherlockSleuth]

Operation Lorimer was the hugely important investigation of the Silk / Miller double murder, of two Victorian policemen in 1998.
It has strong parallels to the CSK investigation, in terms of being a crime that shocked a State, a determination to be solved properly, (unlike the earlier Walsh Street fiasco, where revengeful police ****s summarily executed two crucial young potential witnesses destroying the case) and huge public interest .
When a re-examination of forensic testing on a shattered windscreen , led to Bandali Debs and Jason Roberts firming as suspects in July 1999 , Lorimer investigators placed state of the art transmitting and recording devices in both the suspects, and their associates, homes and cars.
An overt surveillance strategy was then put in place , aligned with critically timed media releases releasing snippets of information, predictions of an imminent arrest , and even a photo shopped likeness of Roberts lifted from his drivers licence.
This investigative tactic was designed ,and in fact led to Roberts and Debs making a number of self incriminating statements when discussing the murders in response to the "in your face" level of police "harassment " they encountered as they attempted to go about their daily routine. This overt surveillance was kept in place for almost one year to the day-culminating with the arrest of Debs in July 2000 and Roberts not long after.
IMO there are similarities to the CSK case, if it can be accepted that BRE came onto the radar unexpectedly in November 2015. Firming very quickly to the point whereby the surprise December 2015 media release detailing the type of car driven by the CSK was deemed fit for release as it was no further value kept secret.
A number of media releases confidently predicting the Claremont Killer would eventually be caught followed into 2016, and it is reported that BREs wife left him in March.
Facebook posts which could be construed as "taunting" watching investigators are recorded in June 2016 before BREs arrest in December 2016 - like the Lorimer investigation it appears BRE was allowed to "run free" for exactly a year as surveillance teams tried to provoke action and glean information from responses of the "Target".

Really interesting reading, cheers. Certainly not what I'd have expected (wrt to overt surveillance) but there you go.

 

[SherlockSleuth]

I

Agreed, but how many sleuths can conclusively state exactly where they were 20+ years ago. I have been trying to think of where I was and can only really come up with Valentine's Day 96. It would have to be a special event...imo

If he had an alibi for each time it would be more suspect, IMO.
even most employers only keep records for the 7 years as required by tax, it just uses up too much space, even to keep electronically past the required time frame. IMO

his DNA, are you 100% sure? I believe it was reported as familial DNA and not necessarily 100% linked to BRE, I may wrong.

If I'm not wrong, the events took place around long weekends.... I reckon with a bit of self-sleuthing, I could work out where I was and who I was with on, say, Labour Day 1996 or Queen's Birthday 1995 etc.

No I'm not 100% sure it's BREs DNA but as he's been arrested and charged with 2 murders and 2 assaults, it's not hard to join the dots.

I think the role of familial DNA here is that it led police to BRE.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Spooks I did read somewhere that it was near KK - I will try and find the link.

Hi Spinnaker and GucciGal

Thanks!

Here's my two cents - I googled the childcare and its on 49 Carrington Rd Nedlands. Unusual thing about Carrington Rd is that it backs up on Government Rd and it looks like most of the businesses along there have access on both streets.

I reckon our CSK visited his KK rape site regularly and loitered around the area, possibly spying Jane (if she worked there) and then CSK continued to stalk Jane.

I think there are two 'backdoor' entrances to the cemetery along Government Rd about 181m and 208m from the Government Rd side of the childcare centre.

Maybe Jane parked on the cemetery side too.

Then I reckon CSK manipulated it that he 'casually' bumped into Jane and maybe they became interested in each other. Even maybe dating? .

.... fast forward a bit.....

So the MM video could be CSK picking up JANE from Conti in early days of their courting. However then something went HORRIBLY wrong and Jane unfortunately ended up in Wellard. (JMO)

What do u think??

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Watching Serial Killer Sunday on Foxtel - Episode on Peter Tobin.

Forensic Psychologist said something along lines of: if a SK looks normal and can speak, then a SK can appear non-threatening to a victim. Then it's very easy for a SK to put a victim at ease - and then the SK strikes!
(Final few minutes of episode)

 

[Spinnaker]

Hi Spinnaker and GucciGal

Thanks!

Here's my two cents - I googled the childcare and its on 49 Carrington Rd Nedlands. Unusual thing about Carrington Rd is that it backs up on Government Rd and it looks like most of the businesses along there have access on both streets.

I reckon our CSK visited his KK rape site regularly and loitered around the area, possibly spying Jane (if she worked there) and then CSK continued to stalk Jane.

I think there are two 'backdoor' entrances to the cemetery along Government Rd about 181m and 208m from the Government Rd side of the childcare centre.

Maybe Jane parked on the cemetery side too.

Then I reckon CSK manipulated it that he 'casually' bumped into Jane and maybe they became interested in each other. Even maybe dating? .

.... fast forward a bit.....

So the MM video could be CSK picking up JANE from Conti in early days of their courting. However then something went HORRIBLY wrong and Jane unfortunately ended up in Wellard. (JMO)

What do u think??

This makes sense!

Would be also interesting to note where the building is (mentioned in the Post article) in relation to JR's work place. Perhaps not only did the CSK go back to the KK site regularly, but also 'bunked' off from work in the unused building.

It does appear that the CSK returns to the same scenes - if we consider Claremont/Bay View Terrace 3 times. We can also consider that JR is potentially connected via the KK link. Effectively her work place could be considered as KK.

If we take it one step further (and some people won't agree with this) - let's consider JC and Cottesloe abduction. Both are from the same place also.

But back to the KK/JR implication - I think you are onto something Spooks R Us!

EDIT - Claremont/Bayview Terrace could be considered more than 3 times if we consider some of the attacks.

 

[Guccigal]

Hi
Yes you're correct re the dual entrances..most people parked across the road from the childcare centre which is actually the verge of the cemetery. I was at the Conti the night JR disappeared and was called in by the police as someone recognised me from the video and I was told to identify anyone else I recognised. I looked like Jane in the video tho a bit younger. It was a very long time ago now but I do remember the footage being shown to us (my sister and I) being of much better quality than the ones I have seen in these sites or TV?