That could work.... a mysterious party pack could arrive for Benny to encourage visitors... visitors get rowdy.... holes in walls happen... artifacts fall out. As long as Cuz doesn't try to snort the evidence, all good.
Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #13
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That could work.... a mysterious party pack could arrive for Benny to encourage visitors... visitors get rowdy.... holes in walls happen... artifacts fall out. As long as Cuz doesn't try to snort the evidence, all good.
Hmmmm ...it could work on many levels....any druggie with a decent stash knows to bury it in the backyard in case of a bust.....but then they get wasted, and forget where they hid it....and have to dig all over to find it again....the always Budget conscious WAPOL Coppers could get the backyard of Huntingdale excavated on the cheap as well....
On a more serious note I have a theory .....
I find it very hard to believe that the accused at that age could have pulled off these offences ALONE., and then stopped as suddenly as he started.
I suspect that there were other parties involved, who committed earlier and later offences, I believe the breadth of crimes "cleared" by this investigation will be huge.
If the accused came under the influence of these other persons, who had a much more sophisticated knowledge than the kid, that the suspect at the time. Then either he left of his own accord, and the others continued on or they died.
I don't believe that he was charged with the ss murder, as he was simply not involved with that particular event.
From the beginning there has been speculation of more than one party, the experts profiles all contradict the personality type/experience/age etc of the suspect.
I expect that he will plead guilty, when it suits the police. In the mean time they will be gathering evidence to clarify the participants in what will be a stupefying final brief.
This is purely supposition and mixed with personel experiences.( I am former WAPOL although never involved with MACRO in any way.)
I find it very hard to believe that the accused at that age could have pulled off these offences ALONE., and then stopped as suddenly as he started.
I suspect that there were other parties involved, who committed earlier and later offences, I believe the breadth of crimes "cleared" by this investigation will be huge.
If the accused came under the influence of these other persons, who had a much more sophisticated knowledge than the kid, that the suspect at the time. Then either he left of his own accord, and the others continued on or they died.
I don't believe that he was charged with the ss murder, as he was simply not involved with that particular event.
From the beginning there has been speculation of more than one party, the experts profiles all contradict the personality type/experience/age etc of the suspect.
I expect that he will plead guilty, when it suits the police. In the mean time they will be gathering evidence to clarify the participants in what will be a stupefying final brief.
This is purely supposition and mixed with personel experiences.( I am former WAPOL although never involved with MACRO in any way.)
apoptosisfutz
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So why was Karl so quick to say he was acting alone in THAT press conference?
He was the exact average age of a serial killer, surprisingly.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/a-surprising-look-at-the-average-serial-killer-2015-5
tapdancingbear
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I do not understand the age reference , the person charged would have been 25 / 26 at the time of the crimes he is charged with ... if he is not charged with any other crimes then others must be involved ... he will plead guilty if and when it suits him to ... and as for evidence being released at a final brief ????? it is a final brief , if more evidence was introduced at that time it would lead to a Mistrial ... apart from that this trial could go on for months , years without a guilty plea ... and the prosecution is going to sit on evidence of further crimes ???? just let other offenders run free for a while so they can have a dramatic finale ????? interesting
Offcourse if as you expect he pleads guilty , there will be no final brief or evidence of any sort , there is no need for it , a guilty plea means he is not disputing the evidence
Nonsensical....You "expect he will plead guilty when it suits THE POLICE"...???? Former Wapol...? I struggle with that.
Yes you are 100% correct The Commissioner did say, that in regard to the matters he has been charged with he acted alone.
He also said that enquiries were ongoing in relation to other matters and did or did not not indicate that other parties were involved in these matters.
He also said that enquiries were ongoing in relation to other matters and did or did not not indicate that other parties were involved in these matters.
You are correct that he was at the correct statistical age at the time of the two murders he has been charged with. I was more relating to the matters that have been raised many times by others, that occurred between the 1988 offence and the two murders.
I.e rapes, julie Cutler etc that are thought by some members to be the work of the same person?
I.e rapes, julie Cutler etc that are thought by some members to be the work of the same person?
Spinnaker
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Should the accused be found guilty I cannot consider BRE as 'a kid'.
The 17 year old KK victim who was abducted and driven deep into KK is indeed 'a kid'.
Some interesting points raised in the below article regarding comments from an FBI profiler:
"When the Claremont series began we went to an FBI profiler in the states and put the four crimes to him and he said 'I would be looking thoroughly at that first sexual assault, because I think that's your bloke."
"He said the Karrakatta matter was looked at "very early on" when a local Claremont detective, an experienced officer, had called in and nominated that crime as being worthy of following up. "A number of officers" had shared his opinion that Karrakatta was "the start of it".
"That's something that's always bothered me. If you look at the way the three murders were committed you've got a killing machine. You've got a superb killer. They don't just fall out of the sky. They develop. They learn their craft. [And they don't stop]. He's either dead or he's in another jurisdiction."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=329306
The 17 year old KK victim who was abducted and driven deep into KK is indeed 'a kid'.
Some interesting points raised in the below article regarding comments from an FBI profiler:
"When the Claremont series began we went to an FBI profiler in the states and put the four crimes to him and he said 'I would be looking thoroughly at that first sexual assault, because I think that's your bloke."
"He said the Karrakatta matter was looked at "very early on" when a local Claremont detective, an experienced officer, had called in and nominated that crime as being worthy of following up. "A number of officers" had shared his opinion that Karrakatta was "the start of it".
"That's something that's always bothered me. If you look at the way the three murders were committed you've got a killing machine. You've got a superb killer. They don't just fall out of the sky. They develop. They learn their craft. [And they don't stop]. He's either dead or he's in another jurisdiction."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=329306
Spinnaker
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Further to the above the below attacks also require further investigation in light of BRE's arrest - IMO there is a possibility the CSK was responsible for these attacks:
- 1989 - Cottesloe Hotel/Lakeway Drive-in - A teenage girl was asleep in a car in the car park opposite the hotel because she had too much to drink. Her attacker moved her from that car into his own car, drove her to Lakeway Drive-in and tried to rape her. She escaped and then he stalked her to try and re-abduct her.
- 1996 Mar 3 A 21-year-old woman is bashed and indecently assaulted in Church Lane behind Club Bay View.
- 1994 Jan 1 woman driving home from Club Bay View fights off man who dragged her from her car and tried to rape her near the Claremont subway 1994
EDIT: here is link for previous post re FBI profiler - http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/c...vestigate-1995-rape-lead-20151016-gkaq8i.html
Kittypurry
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Hello all!
This is my first post, I'm a super long time lurker. I signed up a couple of years ago to make a post but there was a rather over zealous moderator in the Australian threads which put me off posting out of fear of being scolded in a patronizing manner. This moderator is no longer a mod, which is a testament to Websleuths as this was obviously recognized.
I have a few things I wanted to add. MsAnais, I have a screenshot of the cover photo from BE's Facebook that you mentioned wanting to look at again, I can msg it to you if you like? The "Thanks ladies" comment was definitely in response to 2 comments that were written under the YodaHoff pic which I think someone addressed further back in the thread but just thought I would confirm.
Slightly off topic, but in regards to the discussion of the RBT/drug test discussion, someone had mentioned that they had asked for their straw after an RBT and were denied, there is some info in this article and I wondered if it being denied was in relation to this incident, it states the straws are thrown out but this still occurred : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pull-drug-user-using-RBT-straw-meth-pipe.html
I was 16/17 when Sarah went missing, I had just left home and was living in Shenton Park, not far from Claremont. I was absolutely terrified and to this day I will not get in a taxi alone without having booked it and asking which name it was booked under.
I wanted to share my opinion on our small town syndrome/6 degrees of separation. Perth is quite large but you always seem to run into someone you know in the weirdest places. The Rayney house was on the walk to my son's kindy and my mum is a bootscooting teacher, one of her students was the last person to see Corryn and my neighbours little sister was at the concert with one of the daughters the night she went missing, which is an example of how there are so many weird connections in Perth. I was at a baby shower a few weeks ago and I made a few remarks about my boyfriends kids and his ex wife and it turns out the chick I was talking to is on a committee with the ex wife :/ I am still waiting for that one to bite me in the *advertiser censored*.
I've recently started to ponder if maybe the SK used a mix of both blitz attacks and also tried to get girls into his car willingly, followed by a very quick blitz attack? Ciara had been overseas and was't here when Perth was in absolute shock at the announcement that a serial killer was at work and I feel like it is possible she may have accepted a lift, but not from a complete stranger. Could it be possible that she had seen BE at the pub and he had said hello to the guy he went to high school with and therefore when he pulled up there was some recognition and maybe more of a level of trust than a complete stranger pulling up?
Considering Jane was apparently quite upset by the disappearance of Sarah and had given friends money to get a taxi home so they were safe, I highly doubt she accepted a lift from a complete stranger, but maybe she had seen BE around where she worked and maybe a small level of recognition made her more trusting? I think he likely used the blitz attack method like KK but maybe he did manage to get one or more of the girls into his car willingly?
I am surprised at the lack of local gossip I've heard about BE, like I said, everyone in Perth knows everyone and I expected to hear more stories about this guy by now. The only thing I've heard through someone who's kids played sport with the SD a long time ago is that he was weird, the wife was weird and the daughter was weird, and that's it. I asked a friend who has been on Sweet and Sour a couple of times how far in advance the shows are shot as I saw online people were discussing the SD seeming happy etc on the show she was featured on, but I didn't ask any questions about her. I think the word up by police about online discussion etc has really been adhered to by the public, which to me shows how much everyone cares about the case and wants to see a conviction.
Thanks for reading and thanks for all of your great posts
This is my first post, I'm a super long time lurker. I signed up a couple of years ago to make a post but there was a rather over zealous moderator in the Australian threads which put me off posting out of fear of being scolded in a patronizing manner. This moderator is no longer a mod, which is a testament to Websleuths as this was obviously recognized.
I have a few things I wanted to add. MsAnais, I have a screenshot of the cover photo from BE's Facebook that you mentioned wanting to look at again, I can msg it to you if you like? The "Thanks ladies" comment was definitely in response to 2 comments that were written under the YodaHoff pic which I think someone addressed further back in the thread but just thought I would confirm.
Slightly off topic, but in regards to the discussion of the RBT/drug test discussion, someone had mentioned that they had asked for their straw after an RBT and were denied, there is some info in this article and I wondered if it being denied was in relation to this incident, it states the straws are thrown out but this still occurred : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pull-drug-user-using-RBT-straw-meth-pipe.html
I was 16/17 when Sarah went missing, I had just left home and was living in Shenton Park, not far from Claremont. I was absolutely terrified and to this day I will not get in a taxi alone without having booked it and asking which name it was booked under.
I wanted to share my opinion on our small town syndrome/6 degrees of separation. Perth is quite large but you always seem to run into someone you know in the weirdest places. The Rayney house was on the walk to my son's kindy and my mum is a bootscooting teacher, one of her students was the last person to see Corryn and my neighbours little sister was at the concert with one of the daughters the night she went missing, which is an example of how there are so many weird connections in Perth. I was at a baby shower a few weeks ago and I made a few remarks about my boyfriends kids and his ex wife and it turns out the chick I was talking to is on a committee with the ex wife :/ I am still waiting for that one to bite me in the *advertiser censored*.
I've recently started to ponder if maybe the SK used a mix of both blitz attacks and also tried to get girls into his car willingly, followed by a very quick blitz attack? Ciara had been overseas and was't here when Perth was in absolute shock at the announcement that a serial killer was at work and I feel like it is possible she may have accepted a lift, but not from a complete stranger. Could it be possible that she had seen BE at the pub and he had said hello to the guy he went to high school with and therefore when he pulled up there was some recognition and maybe more of a level of trust than a complete stranger pulling up?
Considering Jane was apparently quite upset by the disappearance of Sarah and had given friends money to get a taxi home so they were safe, I highly doubt she accepted a lift from a complete stranger, but maybe she had seen BE around where she worked and maybe a small level of recognition made her more trusting? I think he likely used the blitz attack method like KK but maybe he did manage to get one or more of the girls into his car willingly?
I am surprised at the lack of local gossip I've heard about BE, like I said, everyone in Perth knows everyone and I expected to hear more stories about this guy by now. The only thing I've heard through someone who's kids played sport with the SD a long time ago is that he was weird, the wife was weird and the daughter was weird, and that's it. I asked a friend who has been on Sweet and Sour a couple of times how far in advance the shows are shot as I saw online people were discussing the SD seeming happy etc on the show she was featured on, but I didn't ask any questions about her. I think the word up by police about online discussion etc has really been adhered to by the public, which to me shows how much everyone cares about the case and wants to see a conviction.
Thanks for reading and thanks for all of your great posts
tapdancingbear
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With the trial approaching I thought it may be worthwhile to explain some things about the court system as a lot of people do not seem to understand how it works
1... A Guilty plea ... no Evidence is admitted, there is no need for it
2 ... Not Guilty and all Evidence and Witnesses are introduced
3 ... There can not be any Surprise Evidence or Witnesses .. The Defence team has to be made aware of everything long before the trial... so they can attempt to defend it
4.... There will not be any Stupefying final brief ... a final brief is a summary of what has already occurred .... no more evidence can be introduced at this time because the trial is basically over ... unless a stupefying brief means it is said in a way the stupid understand it
5 And please people if you wish to come to forums such as this pretending to be something you are not ... at least do some homework about your supposed identity , at least make an effort for entertainment value
1... A Guilty plea ... no Evidence is admitted, there is no need for it
2 ... Not Guilty and all Evidence and Witnesses are introduced
3 ... There can not be any Surprise Evidence or Witnesses .. The Defence team has to be made aware of everything long before the trial... so they can attempt to defend it
4.... There will not be any Stupefying final brief ... a final brief is a summary of what has already occurred .... no more evidence can be introduced at this time because the trial is basically over ... unless a stupefying brief means it is said in a way the stupid understand it
5 And please people if you wish to come to forums such as this pretending to be something you are not ... at least do some homework about your supposed identity , at least make an effort for entertainment value
So If he pleads guilty no brief is submitted?
What does the Judge make his sentencing based upon?
What is used in the future should he decide he wishes a re trial based on poor legal advice?
When other matters are referred to the coroners court what evidence is submitted?
When/ If there is an inquiry into the process taken by MACRO to identify failings if any, what evidence is used ? ( There seems to be plenty of people on here who believe it was a stuff up?)
THERE is a brief completed, or over time facts will be lost. I have no doubt
Mr Button, Mr Beamish etc would love to have access to ALL the evidence gathered at the enquiry time of there cases).
"5 And please people if you wish to come to forums such as this pretending to be something you are not ... at least do some homework about your supposed identity , at least make an effort for entertainment value "
I'm sorry you are not entertained, I have offered evidence. I never said I was a legal genius , just a ex copper.
Have you ever dealt with the coronial system?
What does the Judge make his sentencing based upon?
What is used in the future should he decide he wishes a re trial based on poor legal advice?
When other matters are referred to the coroners court what evidence is submitted?
When/ If there is an inquiry into the process taken by MACRO to identify failings if any, what evidence is used ? ( There seems to be plenty of people on here who believe it was a stuff up?)
THERE is a brief completed, or over time facts will be lost. I have no doubt
Mr Button, Mr Beamish etc would love to have access to ALL the evidence gathered at the enquiry time of there cases).
"5 And please people if you wish to come to forums such as this pretending to be something you are not ... at least do some homework about your supposed identity , at least make an effort for entertainment value "
I'm sorry you are not entertained, I have offered evidence. I never said I was a legal genius , just a ex copper.
Have you ever dealt with the coronial system?
BReVeTTe
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petedavo.au
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Most important court date to watch for is the Committal.
Full disclosure of witness list and evidence list, has been served, the Police Brief is finalised, and handed up to the DPP. Beyond that the main addition to the brief by police after that will be the Antecedents report prior to sentencing, if it gets that far.
Full disclosure of witness list and evidence list, has been served, the Police Brief is finalised, and handed up to the DPP. Beyond that the main addition to the brief by police after that will be the Antecedents report prior to sentencing, if it gets that far.
tapdancingbear
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The Judge has access to all evidence whether it is read out in court or not .. And there will be pre sentencing reports
The evidence will be retained , they do not throw it in the bin on the way out of the way out of the court
Re Coroners court ........ as above
Re Macro ... as above
Re the Brief ... as above , it will all be kept
Re MR B and B ... It would have been corrupt police ... or possibly police who have no knowledge of the legal system ... who would have disposed of any evidence
I have found this very entertaining , but not very educational , I would like to improve on my very basic knowledge of the legal system , but I do not think I have anything to learn here
The BRE trial is not the Coroners court , have you ever dealt with the legal system ?
Spinnaker
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I agree ambit that there is a possibility BRE may have been involved in some of the other matters, other than CG, JR, KK attack.
Regards to other attacks and murders we also cannot rule out that at times he may not have acted alone. There also may have been other perpetrators out and about at the same time as the CSK. Do you have any thoughts on this?
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