Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #14

[bessie]

Claremont serial killer breakthrough: Bradley Robert Edwards, 48, SMILES as he appears in court charged with the murder of two women - as police investigation continues into third unsolved case that shocked Australia
By Lucy Mae Beers and Cindy Tran and Riley Morgan For Daily Mail Australia and Aap
Published: 20:16 EST, 22 December 2016 | Updated: 07:13 EST, 23 December 2016

Claremont serial killings: stolen kimono helped lead police to arrest
December 23, 2016 10:50pm

How the Claremont serial killer changed Perth
Jenna Clarke
December 24, 2016

Verified Insiders
Trueblue1972
Frankie2017

Claremont Serial Killer: Media, Timelines, Photos *NO-DISCUSSION*

Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3Thread #4 Thread #5 Thread #6 Thread #7 Thread #8 Thread #9 Thread #10 Thread #11 Thread #12 Thread #13

 

[bessie]

:modstop:​

*** Before you post, be sure to READ and THANK this post and the one which follows.
=============

A fresh thread here, open for posting.

There will be zero tolerance for TOS violations, to include among other things:

1. Bullying other members
2. Addressing other members in a rude and degrading manner
3. Posting rumors
4. Posting "facts" without a legitimate, mainstream media or law enforcement source.
5. Posting suspicions and allegations about fellow members.
6. Abusing the private messaging feature to spread rumors and gossip, and to bully others.
7. Abusing the private messaging feature to draw members away from Websleuths. If you're a member of another group, so be it. Don't discuss it here. Leave the remarks and rumors where you find them.

If you lack the maturity to maintain courtesy and respect, and to exercise common sense, then you have no business posting on a public forum.

ETA: No screenshots or images are to be posted unless you include a link to the MSM source where you found them.

Copyright rule:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11371918

 

[Greater Than]

Please continue here.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

And the first in line is moi! [emoji317][emoji317][emoji317]
Thank you for the new thread.
Feels like fresh clean bed sheets.....

 

[Bunnie]

Next Ted in the Bed!

As for JCs car, winter surf conditions are rough here, especially during bad weather. It is not inconceivable that the damage to the car occurred in the surf.

MOO: I have often thought the dumping of JCs car seemed a bit excessive - like something out of a Hollywood movie. Given that our current alleged CSK would have been 20 at the time, this disposal kind of fits the young, movie-going mindset.

 

[petedavo.au]

Next Ted in the Bed!

As for JCs car, winter surf conditions are rough here, especially during bad weather. It is not inconceivable that the damage to the car occurred in the surf.

MOO: I have often thought the dumping of JCs car seemed a bit excessive - like something out of a Hollywood movie. Given that our current alleged CSK would have been 20 at the time, this disposal kind of fits the young, movie-going mindset.

Maybe it was a greater risk to the perp to of left the car at the crime scene or abduction scene for some reason than to dump it at the beach

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Yes agreed. Overkill destroying JC's car in ocean off Cottesloe Beach.
Not sure why perpetrator didn't just dispose of the car by driving it to Gnangara Pines and setting it alight. Gnangara Pine Plantation was well known as a graveyard for unwanted cars or dodgy insurance jobs.

 

[Bunnie]

Yes agreed. Overkill destroying JC's car in ocean off Cottesloe Beach.
Not sure why perpetrator didn't just dispose of the car by driving it to Gnangara Pines and setting it alight. Gnangara Pine Plantation was well known as a graveyard for unwanted cars or dodgy insurance jobs.

Agreed. That's what leads me to believe it was a young and inexperienced perpetrator. One who panicked after the crime and copied something he saw in a film.

 

[meticulously]

Heres some info regarding the ocean weather conditions after julies disappearance on 20-6-88 . I wanted to find out how big the seas were on the 20, 21 & 22nd to evaluate how the car might have got in then out of the ocean . Also how it possibly wasnt noticed for a while , guessing the water wasnt clear or favorable for anyone to notice. I tried to find a tide chart but was unable to but did notice the moon phase that indicated big / spring tides were a possibility .
These are the posts i made previously on an older forum pasting here .
Quote:
Julie C disappearance
20/6/88.
Temperature maximum at Subiaco: celcius
15th- 21.5 ,
16th - 20.5,
17th - 20.5 ,
18th -19.5 ,
19th - 19.5 ,
20th - 18 ,
21st - 20.1 ,
22nd - 22.8 ,
23rd - 24
24th - 25 .

Temperature minimum at Subiaco
15th- 15,
16th - 15.5 ,
17th - 16.5 ,
18th - 14 ,
19th - 13.5 ,
20th - 8 ,
21st - 10 ,
22nd - 8.6 .
* coldest on 20th & 22nd june .
(Is there any chance the car was dumped the next night after jc last seen , night of 21st ?)


See the water on the sand behind car indicates wave action .

"He who waits" australian story documentary link for car
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12572876

Quote post #2
21-6-1988

22-6-1988

So far this is all I have found about the conditions for cottesloe beach 17-22 june 1988 . still needing the 17-20th to attain knowledge of the swell & wave size. ( I believe that the swell/waves may have been big on the 19th & 20th june without substantial proof atm.)
These 2 maps (21 & 22) show northerly winds & clear skies , the northerly winds may have affected the sea state & driven the leeuwin current (which normally flows southward in june). A huge high pressure cell dominates the state.
I think the weather was very nice the previous day 20/6 .

Quote post #3.
Safe to say that the 20th was remarkably fine and clear with offshore winds going by the synoptic charts . ( I asked a qualified weather forecaster to see the maps posted )

Moon phase 20/6/88 : age 7days waxing crescent , 33% visible

Source: ( bom chart) its a 100 page pdf I cant link yet but have tried its too big .

https://www.calendar-12.com/moon_calendar/1988/june

 

[mandy.maree]

The Cutler case is a very strange one. The lack of photos of the car in the water that day is also odd-cant be an every day thing for a car to be out in the water like that on Cottesloe beach.
I don't know what to make of it really as there isn't a huge amount of information to be found .
I do not believe whoever dumped the car wanted it found. I think whoever dumped it may have had knowledge of the sea and the tides and expected the car to be washed out to sea when it was dumped. The front windows were wound down to help with this process. The back seat coming out is also very odd considering those doors and windows were closed.
CSK may well have been responsible for this.
May not have went how expected so he changed MO again.
JC could have been ambushed in the parking lot . The passenger side door was already unlocked as she had to open the drivers side from there as it didn't unlock from what I have read.
I'm thinking whoever dumped the car had to have lived near Cottesloe or had their own car parked nearby to drive themselves out of the area.



Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[anna.w]

Agreed. That's what leads me to believe it was a young and inexperienced perpetrator. One who panicked after the crime and copied something he saw in a film.

That's an interesting idea, Bunnie. I get needing to move the car for whatever reason but manoeuvring it into the surf is not the first indicated way of doing that. It's unnecessarily elaborate.

 

[anna.w]

Heres some info regarding the ocean weather conditions after julies disappearance on 20-6-88 . I wanted to find out how big the seas were on the 20, 21 & 22nd to evaluate how the car might have got in then out of the ocean . Also how it possibly wasnt noticed for a while , guessing the water wasnt clear or favorable for anyone to notice. I tried to find a tide chart but was unable to but did notice the moon phase that indicated big / spring tides were a possibility .
These are the posts i made previously on an older forum pasting here .
Quote:
Julie C disappearance
20/6/88.
Temperature maximum at Subiaco: celcius
15th- 21.5 ,
16th - 20.5,
17th - 20.5 ,
18th -19.5 ,
19th - 19.5 ,
20th - 18 ,
21st - 20.1 ,
22nd - 22.8 ,
23rd - 24
24th - 25 .

Temperature minimum at Subiaco
15th- 15,
16th - 15.5 ,
17th - 16.5 ,
18th - 14 ,
19th - 13.5 ,
20th - 8 ,
21st - 10 ,
22nd - 8.6 .
* coldest on 20th & 22nd june .
(Is there any chance the car was dumped the next night after jc last seen , night of 21st ?)


See the water on the sand behind car indicates wave action .

"He who waits" australian story documentary link for car
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12572876

Quote post #2
21-6-1988

22-6-1988

So far this is all I have found about the conditions for cottesloe beach 17-22 june 1988 . still needing the 17-20th to attain knowledge of the swell & wave size. ( I believe that the swell/waves may have been big on the 19th & 20th june without substantial proof atm.)
These 2 maps (21 & 22) show northerly winds & clear skies , the northerly winds may have affected the sea state & driven the leeuwin current (which normally flows southward in june). A huge high pressure cell dominates the state.
I think the weather was very nice the previous day 20/6 .

Quote post #3.
Safe to say that the 20th was remarkably fine and clear with offshore winds going by the synoptic charts . ( I asked a qualified weather forecaster to see the maps posted )

Moon phase 20/6/88 : age 7days waxing crescent , 33% visible

Source: ( bom chart) its a 100 page pdf I cant link yet but have tried its too big .

https://www.calendar-12.com/moon_calendar/1988/june

That's awesome, meticulously. Thanks.

 

[petedavo.au]

Yes agreed. Overkill destroying JC's car in ocean off Cottesloe Beach.
Not sure why perpetrator didn't just dispose of the car by driving it to Gnangara Pines and setting it alight. Gnangara Pine Plantation was well known as a graveyard for unwanted cars or dodgy insurance jobs.

Unless it was walking distance, back to his car (or work /home) that mattered.

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[Sutton]

Heres some info regarding the ocean weather conditions after julies disappearance on 20-6-88 . I wanted to find out how big the seas were on the 20, 21 & 22nd to evaluate how the car might have got in then out of the ocean . Also how it possibly wasnt noticed for a while , guessing the water wasnt clear or favorable for anyone to notice. I tried to find a tide chart but was unable to but did notice the moon phase that indicated big / spring tides were a possibility .
These are the posts i made previously on an older forum pasting here .
Quote:
Julie C disappearance
20/6/88.
...
* coldest on 20th & 22nd june .
(Is there any chance the car was dumped the next night after jc last seen , night of 21st ?)


See the water on the sand behind car indicates wave action .

"He who waits" australian story documentary link for car
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12572876

Quote post #2
21-6-1988

22-6-1988

So far this is all I have found about the conditions for cottesloe beach 17-22 june 1988 . still needing the 17-20th to attain knowledge of the swell & wave size. ( I believe that the swell/waves may have been big on the 19th & 20th june without substantial proof atm.)
These 2 maps (21 & 22) show northerly winds & clear skies , the northerly winds may have affected the sea state & driven the leeuwin current (which normally flows southward in june). A huge high pressure cell dominates the state.
I think the weather was very nice the previous day 20/6 .

Quote post #3.
Safe to say that the 20th was remarkably fine and clear with offshore winds going by the synoptic charts . ( I asked a qualified weather forecaster to see the maps posted )

Moon phase 20/6/88 : age 7days waxing crescent , 33% visible

Source: ( bom chart) its a 100 page pdf I cant link yet but have tried its too big .

https://www.calendar-12.com/moon_calendar/1988/june

Snipped.

Met, this is an incredibly thorough analysis of the conditions during the time Julie disappeared. Can you translate the possible outcome a bit though?

The tide would not have been so high as to come over the groyne and pull the car out, would it? Someone would have still had to have gotten it over the curb?

Are you saying the waves/swell could have been big enough to hide it for a full day and a half?

Or do you think it more likely that it was dumped on the evening of the 21st and the spotted on the 22nd?

 

[petedavo.au]

That's an interesting idea, Bunnie. I get needing to move the car for whatever reason but manoeuvring it into the surf is not the first indicated way of doing that. It's unnecessarily elaborate.

Unless, it's just a matter of "where to dispose of a car, within walking distance back to his car, home or work" I would assume then that a panicked perp might of dumped it off the boat ramp for 3. reasons. 1 make it look like a suicide, 2. Wash away evidence, 3. Be walking distance to his getaway. What's within walking distance and would be secluded at night?

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Another perspective: If CSK was responsible for murder of JC, then the elaborate ocean ditching of her car could be seen as a 'sign'.
This point has been previously raised by sleuth/s here on WS, and apologies for not linking.
The meaning of this 'sign' could strengthen the various D-site/abduction site mapping theories.

Alternatively, if the CSK is an attention seeking serial killer, then when the JC case (and maybe other additional crimes) didn't attract enough attention, then the CSK decided to move onto another wealthy elitist area - the Claremont entertainment district.

Maybe the alleged CSK does have something against wealth, and everything that comes with being wealthy.

The accused CSK certainly appears to have little pride in his surroundings going by his gardening efforts. And IMO he lacked career motivation of the wealth attainment variety.

Maybe the alleged CSK's only career motivation was to kill. And after some successful crimes (successful from his POV), he then later he decided to become one of Australia's most famous SK's.

It's entirely possible that the accused could desire a very private work/family/volunteer lifestyle AND desire fame and notoriety in his alleged SK life. Quite often people can be one way in the public eye and then be the total opposite way in their private life.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Unless, it's just a matter of "where to dispose of a car, within walking distance back to his car, home or work" I would assume then that a panicked perp might of dumped it off the boat ramp for 3. reasons. 1 make it look like a suicide, 2. Wash away evidence, 3. Be walking distance to his getaway. What's within walking distance and would be secluded at night?

Sent from my HTC 2PQ910 using Tapatalk

Yes was just going to say Seaview Golf Course. Back then the golf course had a public road through the centre of the course, heading in perpendicular direction up from beach line.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Seaview
Bayview
Lol there's a theme!

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

Seaview
Bayview
Lol there's a theme!

Is there a Hillsview? Hillview?

 

[meticulously]

Are you saying the waves/swell could have been big enough to hide it for a full day and a half?
Or do you think it more likely that it was dumped on the evening of the 21st and the spotted on the 22nd?

Thanks #sutton, wish i had more info about the tides and weather for this .
my guess is that a remarkable weather occurence happened in the preceding days , possibly a big strong frontal low pressure storm west of perth in the indian ocean , that produced a very big swell and stormsurge tides that battered the beaches and wet beyond normal high tide marks . This might have been from the 18th -20th june but the large swell remained in the ocean during the days 20th, 21st or 22nd , when the conditions were very cool & fine (on land)
I do think this weather situation could help explain how the car got in via the beach or groyne and there was no tracks in the sand (as far as I can tell from reports).
nobody saw it until it washed in because of waves, weed & murky stirred up water thats not visible ?

I dont have a theory to explain this happening mostly due to lack of clues.
The flimsy clues from the weather stats do indicate higher than normal tides and wave conditions is a possibility .

If anyones able to get some screen shots from the doco we could all look at it better. The doco rarely loads for me and only once out of ten attempts it sort of worked. If I remember correct you might see a view of the beach with the groyne behind it about 50 metres. Can anyone help? Would be interesting to see something new.
Moo

http://www.waweathergroup.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2481

Google: " john callow weather 1988 west australia" .
Because it's too big a pdf to link here sorry .

.