Australia Australia - Corryn Rayney, 44, Como, WA, 7 August 2007

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Hmmm! Interesting day...and I'm hoping to hear/read other websleuthers' thoughts on the phone tapping. Someone suggested to me that it was not an
illegal activity for LR as he tapped his own home phone? I doubt this. But apparently Clare O'Brien was of the same opinion...surely she wouldn't have perjured herself? :waitasec: Twice IMHO
I wonder why the listening device was removed 2 days before Corryn was murdered ? Had LR heard enough and just a coincidence?
Who was the woman with the slight Indian accent? I don't think Corryn had an Indian accent at all and therefore assuming it wasn't her sister either. Hopefully another confidante who will be called as a witness and will testify as to what they spoke about during phone conversations.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/phone-tapper-gives-evidence-the-rayney-trial-20120827-24vgg.html
 
TweetyPie said:
Hmmm! Interesting day...and I'm hoping to hear/read other websleuthers' thoughts on the phone tapping. Someone suggested to me that it was not an
illegal activity for LR as he tapped his own home phone? I doubt this. But apparently Clare O'Brien was of the same opinion...surely she wouldn't have perjured herself? :waitasec: Twice IMHO
I wonder why the listening device was removed 2 days before Corryn was murdered ? Had LR heard enough and just a coincidence?
Who was the woman with the slight Indian accent? I don't think Corryn had an Indian accent at all and therefore assuming it wasn't her sister either. Hopefully another confidante who will be called as a witness and will testify as to what they spoke about during phone conversations.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/phone-tapper-gives-evidence-the-rayney-trial-20120827-24vgg.html
Click to expand...

Hi Tweety Pie. It is always illegal to intercept any telephone call. Calls may be monitored or recorded in certain circumstances but the participants on the call must all be made aware that recording or third party monitoring may be taking place.

Here is a little more information

http://www.privacy.gov.au/faq/individuals/q1

The calls Tim Pearson made to LR are in MHO totally useless pieces of evidence. LR could claim he had confused the caller for one of his clients - the poor quality of the call would only add to Lloyd's defence. At no point did TP make it clear that he was calling in relation to the phone tapping device he installed at the Rayney home. I wonder if the Police found Tim's number programmed into LR's mobile phone?
 
Hi everybody, yes we have been quietly mulling things over.

These past days have answered some of my queries about the blood on the back seat (which explains the lack of blood found at the alleged murder site) and the missing items eg the water bottle, purse and contact lenses. Based on what the officer said about fingerprints, a towel sounds like the perfect item to use to move items without leaving prints behind. The so-called "perfect murder".

RE today's evidence, I can't imagine for a microsecond that LR would not know the laws about phone tapp[ing and the same applies to Pearson as an expert in the field. Either Pearson is covering his butt by pretending he thought it was legal, or LR was trying to convince Pearson that there was a legal way to tap phones and to put the onus on Pearson to take reposnsibility for breaking the law. The recording wasn't that poor, you can hear the words "you know what i said about...computer" and why would they have created a cover story unless it was to hide this illegal activity?

And yes, I expect that LR and CR both have a slight Indian accent (both raised by Indian parentsa in Yemen and Uganda respectively) and this would be enhanced if they were speaking to another of the same background e.g. a family member.

It's good to see the judge asking questions and demanding some straight answers. Gotta laugh when someone in court tells a judge they don't want to answer a question because of privacy laws!

All the defence seems to have is that the seed pods weren't photographed in the hair and some messy log records, and some narky witnesses trying to make the police look bad to deflect from their own illegal behaviour. Remember also a large part of the evidence is not being debated in court but has been silently admitted on agreement by both parties. This could be to avoid public scandal e.g. details of the affair, gambling, sleeping with the girls, hiding funds, etc. So the case could be a lot stronger than the public might think.

Question: I though heresay evidence was not permitted in the criminal court, so how come everyone gets to say what LR said to them, what CR said to them, etc?
 
Dark horse said:
Hi everybody, yes we have been quietly mulling things over.

These past days have answered some of my queries about the blood on the back seat (which explains the lack of blood found at the alleged murder site) and the missing items eg the water bottle, purse and contact lenses. Based on what the officer said about fingerprints, a towel sounds like the perfect item to use to move items without leaving prints behind. The so-called "perfect murder".

RE today's evidence, I can't imagine for a microsecond that LR would not know the laws about phone tapp[ing and the same applies to Pearson as an expert in the field. Either Pearson is covering his butt by pretending he thought it was legal, or LR was trying to convince Pearson that there was a legal way to tap phones and to put the onus on Pearson to take reposnsibility for breaking the law. The recording wasn't that poor, you can hear the words "you know what i said about...computer" and why would they have created a cover story unless it was to hide this illegal activity?

And yes, I expect that LR and CR both have a slight Indian accent (both raised by Indian parentsa in Yemen and Uganda respectively) and this would be enhanced if they were speaking to another of the same background e.g. a family member.

It's good to see the judge asking questions and demanding some straight answers. Gotta laugh when someone in court tells a judge they don't want to answer a question because of privacy laws!

All the defence seems to have is that the seed pods weren't photographed in the hair and some messy log records, and some narky witnesses trying to make the police look bad to deflect from their own illegal behaviour. Remember also a large part of the evidence is not being debated in court but has been silently admitted on agreement by both parties. This could be to avoid public scandal e.g. details of the affair, gambling, sleeping with the girls, hiding funds, etc. So the case could be a lot stronger than the public might think.

Question: I though heresay evidence was not permitted in the criminal court, so how come everyone gets to say what LR said to them, what CR said to them, etc?
Click to expand...

I had a good chuckle to myself about the privacy issue too DH.

Just to clarify hearsay. Hearsay is what you heard someone said to another about a third party. i.e. XYZ told me that LR was cheating on his wife with Miss X it would would be hearsay.

NOT HEARSAY
If Miss X declared to me that she was having an affair with LR - as she was one of the parties involved and could be called to tesitfy.

NOT HEARSAY
I claim to have heard a discussion between XYZ and LR about him cheating on his wife with Miss X. (LR involved in the discussion)

NOT HEARSAY
A conversation between XYZ and me about the alleged affair, if LR was clearly in earshot and able to refute the claim.

I learned about this when I was a witness to a situation where 5 people died. The Barristers tussled for what seemed like an eternity over whether or not my evidence would be classified as hearsay or not. The jury had to be ushered from their seats whilst this was debated.

Wouldn't you just love it if the prosecution could find an example of LR either defending or prosecuting someone who had illegally tapped into a telephony system. I am sure he must have had reason to do that somewhere in his career. I agree DH why would LR have needed to invent a back-up story regarding a computer if he thought what was being installed was legal.

:phone::tos:
 
In that case, Justice Martin, said the defence would “have to put (to police witnesses) that the log was falsified”.

“What else is there other than a suggestion that they have falsified these records,” Justice Martin said.

I think that pretty much sums up the defense by the judge himself.
 
Phone tapping in Australia
Do people not record conversations? The company which sells units and scanners dicksmith sells does it all. VoIP has call re cordings. There are websites that sell equipment to bug phones. Also many partners bug each other for infidelity. So what!
The installer paid the fine. He should be acquitted. If you call an antenna installer for your tv and watch illicit *advertiser censored* via satellite does the installer get charged?

This case is Going in circles. Yes what is being shown to the public is to justify how tax payers money is being well spent!
 
Phone tapping is illegal because Corryn didn't know about it. You can record conversations BUT the other party has to know. It shows lack of trust, what his capable of doing, and the fact he was covering it up by referring to 'computer' and removed it a couple of days before the murder is very suspicious.

This case still fascinates me, especially the handkerchief and LR card. I don't believe the purpose of CR being buried head first was to speed up decomposition. I think it has some sort of meaning attached.

Where's the witness about how the perfect murder book? It was probably submitted privately to the judge but still very intriguing.

The judge better be working 24/7 to solve this case with the big pay packet his getting from it.
 
Hi Palmy
I personally think that the head position was to cover up evidence and speed up decomposition. What struck me was that her arms were crossed ...some care there ...made me think whoever buried Corryn either knew her or had some regard for her or deceased in general??? Didn't look haphazard. Not sure if that makes any sense. :dunno:
 
Does anyone know if the handkerchief was place directly underneath the head, or was it buried a bit?

This case definitely is frustrating. I tried to do a bit of quick research whether burying upside down speeds up decomposition or has a meaning and couldn't find anything. Whoever did it seems to be the only person in the whole world who buries someone like that...how odd
 
Same Palmy ...I couldn't find any religious or other significance to a head down burial...other than ancient times but crossed arms are common. The hanky was found 10cm below Corryn's head ...our sandy soil in Perth could account for that as well as no significant difference between top and sub soil samples taken.
Well tomorrow's another day.
 
The case has gone against prosecution in today's development. Police blood specialist thinks the murder has happened in the car! So taxpayers money was well spent in getting the synchrotron experts from Melbourne and on the live video to the Uk soil expert. In these days of uncertain unemployment every one but the telecom engineer who was fined more than his profit, is benefiting from this case.
Apparently LR was arrested the day his defamation case was to start.
Guys n Girls LR will be the richest guy in AU once this case is decided in his favor. If acquitted WA gov will be broke.
 
As time is going on, this case doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Where's the big discoveries saying ah ha, got him! Nothing. In the end, there is no direct evidence that he did it. Not only will LR get off but he will get millions in taxpayers money compensation seeing that he will never work as a lawyer again because of his ruined reputation. We all know he is guilty as hell but that's where it ends. I reckon this whole case was created to give lawyers and judges more work and money. Maybe work was slow.
 
I feel it's time to take a deep breath and look at the evidence as opposed to conjecture. And remember it is about reasonable doubt, not what is possible.

First, LR's defamation case was not due to commence the day he was arrested. That is a rumour, not fact.

Second, the blood spatter expert said it was possible one of the blood marks was made under pressure. If blood dripped, that may explain it. Also what is possible and what is likely are different things in light of the other bloodmarks and the remaining evidence. The surrounding forensic evidence points to purging in the vehicle which as we know only occurs some time after death, dragging of the body across a hard surface where it picked up red paint fragments and seed pods which match the house, and indicate that she was at the house, where her coffee cup and the coat she wore that night were discovered. Not to mention the place card and hankie which place LR at the burial site.

Third, the seed pods not being photographed in the hair (where they were not visible until removed) and some messy logs does not discount the many (I have lost count) witnesses who saw the 2 pods being removed from her hair and the 3rd pod which fell into the body bag on exhumation. To suggest that every one of these eye witnesses, being police, Drs and forensics experts, are lying to frame LR is pretty unreasonable IMO. The police have it in for me is not a defence IMO.

Fourth, the evidence from LR's friends is riddled with conjecture. Remember the fella Mr Webb who went pink and shifty when asked about his wife's relationship with LR? The young female barrister who owned the house on kershaw? Well, she took the stand yesterday. What aspersions did she have to cast? That she believed, and tried to convince LR, that CR was having an affair. And that LR didn't care (yeah sure, that's believable--not). Nobody pressed the point of the nature of her relationship with LR, and nobody asked her if LR had access to her cavant home...In any case, none of what his mates have to say about what a great fella he is changes the fact that the evidence points to him murdering his wife.

Has it struck anyone else that it is dodgy that LR's legal buddies have come forward with police statements to assist the prosecution? Could it be a strategy to embed oneself as prosecution witnesses purely to muddy the waters in aid of the defence? I think a lot of these witness statements need to be taken from whence they come.
 
Looks like it was a good day for the prosecution today. LR being good at weight training and nervous that the neighbours had security cameras was interesting. All of those details given by CR sister, the judge will be taking into account.

It looks like CR seriously was determined to ruin LR, but went too far and has paid the ultimate price.

I wish the defence would stop going on about the police being corrupt etc and discussing how LR was the prime suspect. If they were to convince me, they would need to be demonstrating who, when, where killed CR which they're not. Which they can't, because they know there's too much forensic evidence against LR, so they're trying to make out the police are corrupt and wanted to make a charge straight away.

This is not a waste of tax payers money, he will be going to jail.
 
Has it struck anyone else that it is dodgy that LR's legal buddies have come forward with police statements to assist the prosecution? Could it be a strategy to embed oneself as prosecution witnesses purely to muddy the waters in aid of the defence? I think a lot of these witness statements need to be taken from whence they come.[/QUOTE]

I agree DH they are "hostile witnesses". I believe that is the way a former colleague Clare O'Brien was described. And Linda Black probably the same.
 
Is this part of LR defence teams strategy - to wear everyone down and drag the case (and evidence) out until the reality and facts are blurred to the point of confusion? Even the judge admitted to being overwhelmed.

This crafty,smug little *advertiser censored* is going to get away with murder.

Can't the judge reign this circus in - and get down to what is known, and then pursue circumstantial evidence?
 
'Having sat through nearly a day of evidence Justice Brian Martin intervened in the cross-examination of Rohan Coutinho, the husband of Mrs Rayney’s sister Sharon, when he was being questioned about the placing of Mrs Rayney’s ashes.

"I just don’t see how it is of any relevance to me whatsoever," Justice Martin said.

Prosecutors suggested the evidence was intended to compare and contrast with past behaviour.

"I must say say it seems to me today has been turned into a family law exercise with marginal relevance to the inquiry that’s before me," Justice Martin said.

"I remain to be convinced that the conduct of the accused in perhaps drawing away from being involved in arranging funeral details or something to do with the ashes gives any indication whatsoever of the consciousness of guilt of the crime with which he is charged."
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/14764739

I don't like the way this trial is going... & I don't care for this Justice Martin's flippant remarks. It seems to me his mind was made up some time ago.
I hope I'm wrong
 
Can't believe L.R. used his wedding speech for the Eulogy

"On the day of Mrs Rayney’s funeral on September 1 Ms Coutinho said she was surprised by Mr Rayney’s eulogy.

"It was a copy of his wedding speech," she said.

"It was word for word his wedding speech."

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/14761510/corryn-was-unhappy-for-10-years-sister/



So, not from the heart then, no words from a grief stricken bereaved husband, just played it safe with a recycled wedding speech!
 
I'm pretty sure defence is going for a 2nd murder site. They have set the scene for Corryn being murdered in her car, several break-ins to her car at Bentley (as if you wouldn't tell your sister that????) and they definitely have a witness who could be called to testify that she may have been murdered in Kings Park. Perth's a small town...news travels fast
 
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